Help me compare a Land Pride LP500 drill with a Genesis 5 Light drill

[Foggy47]

Are you planning to save a strip of your rye to buzz off with the flail mower? I'm really curious to see what happens to the thatch when run through a flail mower vs being rolled down. I know it'll go faster, but how much faster? I'm starting to have concerns about durability of rye thatch when flailed. I hit mine with a regular brush hog last year, and it is almost all gone already. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just faster than expected. I was hoping for mulch all the way until I laid the next batch onto the soil. Maybe I'll get lucky and that stuff will put so much fertility back it'll have a thick canopy and it'll be a standing green thatch.

I have to look at it again once this crop is up and running. Maybe it's still under there. I had an odd smear of what seems like clover leaves that needs to get eaten up. Last I looked that paper thin layer of that stuff hadn't gotten eaten up yet, but there was also still ice on the lakes last time I looked.

At this point I do not have a plan like above.....but I suppose I could flail a small area to compare it to roll crimping. My roller / crimper delivers this afternoon.

 

[omicron1792]

Gentlemen,

I’ve been lurking on this board for a long time, and I appreciate all you guys do. I have gained so much information from y’all.

I’ve been using a firminator, but I’m now switching towards all no till. I have been using a firminator, but I’m now switching towards all no till. I have had the exact same question about the minimal till land pride drills.

I found a pro land manager in Indiana That has been using a 3P600. I am thinking about buying his 2019 model. I have purchased a Saya 507, but have not received it yet and I’m thinking about canceling it.

I asked this land manager about using the land pride drill for no till. This is his answer.

“I used it as a no-till on my property that is a very sandy soil type. It does a fabulous job. It also worked well in silty loam soils with some moisture. You won't get the depth you need in heavy clay or dry rocky soils.
It also does a nice job of no-till through existing clover if you want to thicken up the clover plot.
I don't believe you will get the depth you want or need if you were trying to no-till through heavy grass stubble or no-till through a heavy cover crop that has been crimped.”

I would love y’all’s Thoughts on this. I have recently purchased a goliath crimper. It is interesting that the Genesis drill is being used a lot without the front coulters. I wonder if his concerns are more theoretical rather than real world.

 

[omicron1792]

Of note, I have purchased my crimper to be run on the front of my tractor. I think with the crop already being laid over by the time the drill gets to it will allow it to cut in pretty easily since it will already be in a groove. Also, it’s my understanding that depth isn’t quite as important when you have a thick cover crop over the top. All I really need is the seed having contact with the soil and not really super deep.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I would love y’all’s Thoughts on this. I have recently purchased a goliath crimper. It is interesting that the Genesis drill is being used a lot without the front coulters. I wonder if his concerns are more theoretical rather than real world.

Comparing Genesis 5 to a 3p600 - Genesis weighs roughly 225# per opener. 3p600 w/ 7" spacing is 163#/opener, w/6" spacing is 144#/opener. So the genesis has the benefit of weight on it's side to help with tougher ground conditions but I've got no actual experience with how that translates to results.

 

[omicron1792]

Thanks! I would probably add some weights.

Grant Woods emailed me this reply this morning.

“Morning! I don't use front coulters. Many farmers don't. For the planting coulters to work well, they need to be sharp and designed to cut through vegetation and soil.

I don't know those units well enough to advise you. However, if the price is right, I'm very confident you can sell it at a profit as drills are in short supply! Will the seller let you try it through a yard, field, etc.?”

Enjoy Creation,

grant
Grant Woods, Ph.D.
Wildlife Biologist and host of GrowingDeer

 

[Foggy47]

THANKS! for some good feedback on the 3P600 drill. I live in sandy country along with a little loam ground. I recently spoke with my local dealer, whom has sold a few of these units. He claims the owners of these drills are using in no-till scenarios and are pretty happy with them. As you say above....I wonder when the vegetation gets heavy.....but I have no first hand knowledge in this area. I hope you report back on your experience with this drill.

I almost pulled the trigger on one of these....but then they sprang a $2000 price increase .....and I decided to stay happy with my Saya 505. I do believe they offer some weight brackets for the SP500/ SP600 Drills. May want to investigate how to add some weight.

After this season....if I am dissatisfied with my SAYA I will search out a new drill candidate. Hope to hear more feedback. Good Luck Omicron!

 

[omicron1792]

Foggy, what price did your dealer quote you on a 3p500 and 3p600?

 

[omicron1792]

Looking at 3p600 vs 3p606NT, it looks like the only difference is the Front cutting coulters. They are cast iron so adding 10 of those probably accounts for the extra several hundred pounds of weight on the 606. My guess is that the weight isn’t actually on the planting coulter but some is on the cutting coulter up front. How adding those justifies the 6-7k difference for the 606 vs the 600 is beyond me….especially since lots of no till people are not actually using the Front Coulters.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I was quoted $13.7k IIRC to order a 3p500 with small seed box. They had a new 3p606nt on the lot at that time and I think it was $17k and change.

 

[Foggy47]

Foggy, what price did your dealer quote you on a 3p500 and 3p600?

In Jan I got a price of 12,500 for a 3P500 with small seed box. In May the price was $16,000. He can keep it. Same happened on the Genesis I had purchased in August last year. These companies have screwed up deliveries and prices are running away. I will make do with my Tar River......or find another solution if the Tar River Saya does not perform to my expectations. It's doin g fine at this point. :)

 

[swat1018]

I believe your buyer is telling you the truth about thee drill. It will largely depend on soil type and condition. As soil tilth improves after using no-till practices, the drill should do better over time. As far as Grant Woods saying NT farmers don't use coulters, that is false.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I believe your buyer is telling you the truth about thee drill. It will largely depend on soil type and condition. As soil tilth improves after using no-till practices, the drill should do better over time. As far as Grant Woods saying NT farmers don't use coulters, that is false.

I’ve read about a lot of no-till farmers removing coulters. Are they lying?

 

[swat1018]

I’ve read about a lot of no-till farmers removing coulters. Are they lying?

I shouldn't have said that in definite terms. In my area / soil type, it isn't happening.

 

[Rit]

I believe your buyer is telling you the truth about thee drill. It will largely depend on soil type and condition. As soil tilth improves after using no-till practices, the drill should do better over time. As far as Grant Woods saying NT farmers don't use coulters, that is false.

I took that as they don’t use them with the Genesis. As an owner of one I slice through some of the heaviest hardest clay with out them and have had no issues. You definitely won’t need them on the Genesis.

 

[buckdeer1]

You can buy a slightly used Great Plains for less than that online.

 

[MadMadHoosier]

I shouldn't have said that in definite terms. In my area / soil type, it isn't happening.

Coulters were delivered on my genesis 5 (heavy), and while I’m not sure they are necessary in Western Kentucky, I doubt I’ll ever remove them. And they will probably be more appreciated if/when I get a crimper.

 

[Foggy47]

You can buy a slightly used Great Plains for less than that online.

Yep....that may be my next step. My issue is I'm a bit on the low side for tractor with any heavyweight NT Drills. I own a L3560 HSTC Kubota 38 Gross HP with a Cab and fluid in the tires. I can pull a six foot no till drill nicely....but I am somewhat limited on the weight on the 3 point at 2600# 24" behind the pins. (IIRC). Therefore my need for a relatively-light no-till drill. I got sandy soils so I can penetrate pretty well with a light drill.....but that could be more of an issue as I build the biomass....which I need.

To me...the current drill candidates are a 3P500, 3p600, NT3P600 <-----all Great Plains or Land Pride. ......or a RTP Genesis 5 Light......or my Tar River Saya 505 or 507. I know I would be unhappy with a pull type product as my plots are too snaky and odd shaped to get around.

All of these products have some features and benefits and some warts (for me) too. Maybe the right choice will occur to me with more experience in this area. I'm having fun "tricking-out" my SAYA 505 and getting along with this product.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You can buy a slightly used Great Plains for less than that online.

Which models? I see 25-30 year old EWNT7 or Solid Stand 7 drills for $10k+ but at that point it's hard to not just buy new. Especially for folks with full-time jobs and young families who don't have a bunch of time to tune things up.

 

[Bassattackr]

Looking at 3p600 vs 3p606NT, it looks like the only difference is the Front cutting coulters. They are cast iron so adding 10 of those probably accounts for the extra several hundred pounds of weight on the 606. My guess is that the weight isn’t actually on the planting coulter but some is on the cutting coulter up front. How adding those justifies the 6-7k difference for the 606 vs the 600 is beyond me….especially since lots of no till people are not actually using the Front Coulters.

The NT is a much beefier (and heavier) drill. More than just leading coulter differences..

Yes, many in commercial ag don't use no til coulters. Especially when planting green (into standing rye for example). Much more weight on set of openers vs drill weight spread out between coulters + openers. No til coulters are useful for slicing through and planting into dead CSG / sod applications or shredded corn stalks / trash. So, unless you're using your drill for a first time pasture conversion or planting corn, I don't see the need..

GP 3P500 jumped from $9800 to $13,500 in 24 months. Unreal. Still a great drill, not off the table yet..

 

[Bassattackr]

Yep....that may be my next step. My issue is I'm a bit on the low side for tractor with any heavyweight NT Drills. I own a L3560 HSTC Kubota 38 Gross HP with a Cab and fluid in the tires. I can pull a six foot no till drill nicely....but I am somewhat limited on the weight on the 3 point at 2600# 24" behind the pins. (IIRC). Therefore my need for a relatively-light no-till drill. I got sandy soils so I can penetrate pretty well with a light drill.....but that could be more of an issue as I build the biomass....which I need.

To me...the current drill candidates are a 3P500, 3p600, NT3P600 <-----all Great Plains or Land Pride. ......or a RTP Genesis 5 Light......or my Tar River Saya 505 or 507. I know I would be unhappy with a pull type product as my plots are too snaky and odd shaped to get around.

Foggy - The 3P600 and Gen 5 Light are way too much drill for that tractor IMO. You may (barely) have the hydraulic lift capacity but you'll be lifting the front end of that tractor off the ground to use it. And if you have any hills...