Lets Talk about what can be done to control weeds in a no-till situation.

[Foggy47]

So I took a hard look at some martial ground that I had seeded into rye last year....thinking I would let it go to seed and mow it down to get a free rye crop for next year. Knowing (from a rag doll test) that my rye was viable....today was the day. None too soon....as these plots are LOADED with mares tail. Not much for viable seed in the mares tail yet....but some looks like its ripening. I should have gotten some seeds to check em. Anyway....seeing that SD likes to see flail mower pics.....figured I would take a few. I'm guessing that 10% of the rye seeds came loose of the seed head upon mowing. The rest should drop on their own or with some rain. Hoping to get past this mares tail ordeal before long. Ugh.

EDIT: Not sure how I can rotate all my pics 90 degrees? Any suggestions?

 

[Brian662]

Foggy it looks like it must just be the way you hold your phone when taking the pics since the pic of your tractor is the right direction. I normally hold my phone vertical instead of horizontal, that may help?

 

[SD51555]

Dear Foggy,

Love the action pics. Don’t sweat the marestail. Stick to the plan. It will go away. Member how we beat the pigweed and hawkweed?

If you’re on an iPhone, you need to take portrait orientation lock off. When your phone is locked, swipe up to reveal this screen. If it looks like this, click that lock icon with the circle to turn it off.

Then it should look like this. If you see this, then your camera will rotate with your phone orientation.

Then, sometimes you have to wait a second for your phone to reorient if you’ve moved around, or you’re not perfectly vertical or horizontal. Always look for the orientation logo to tell you if you’re shooting correctly. Those arrow points should always be at 3 and 9. If they are at 6 and 12, you’re shooting off kilter.

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[Foggy47]

Thanks SD! Some day I will take a class on iPhone.....or not.

 

[SD51555]

Thanks SD! Some day I will take a class on iPhone.....or not.

Did that work?


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[Foggy47]

Did that work?


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Yep......but dont ask me how to get back to that screen again. lol. Thanks.

If you would have told me (before I was 30) that I would carry a phone, a GPS, A camera, a topic search ability on any topic in the universe, a texting device, a Rolodex of all my contacts, banking / investing, and so much more...... I would have called you crazy. Todays "phones" are absolutely amazing......I wish I would have taken them more seriously in my working days. I had no time to learn such stuff early on. Slow learner.

 

[matinc]

Sd so when is the best time to mow marstail. Why.do you believe it will go away. What I noticed this year is that crimping my rye in July brought out a lot of marstail and now I won't crimp my rye till labor day weekend and wonder if I should even wait till middle of September to crimp my rye.

 

[SD51555]

Sd so when is the best time to mow marstail. Why.do you believe it will go away. What I noticed this year is that crimping my rye in July brought out a lot of marstail and now I won't crimp my rye till labor day weekend and wonder if I should even wait till middle of September to crimp my rye.

Few things:

**It will go away because it only appears after some event that triggers it to germinate. 99% of the time its death (spraying or tillage) or mono-cropping. To truly beat it, you need to change away from the conditions that ushered it in. Did you have anything else growing with your rye?

**I don’t know that I’d get excited about mowing it. If it’s there, it’s there. No amount of mowing will prevent the buildup of, or exhaustion of an existing seed bank. It may take more than a year for it to go away, but evolution takes time, and that means we have to look at unpleasant things longer than we’d like. But that also requires you to look for the little wins, like the stand, while not gone, may be diminishing, or other things doing better. Make sure it isn’t visible from the road, or you might make some enemies.

**I’m a fan of big oppressive crops for spring and summer that will eventaually self terminate like rye, triticale, yellow sweet clover, sorghum, sunflowers, balansa, etc. But also throw in the perennials and annuals to keep your carbon pumping to your soil system, as your biennials are dying off like chicory, plantain, ragweed, flax, brassicas, alfalfa, etc.


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[SD51555]

If you’re not sure if you should try it, throw it in there and see what happens. The only seeds I shy away from for management purposes are white clover and hairy vetch.


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[matinc]

SD thank you for your vast knowledge. It's impressive. Two more scenarios when the ground is newly rotod or disced I understand millions of new seeds float to the surface is this basically adding a lifetime of fighting new weeds. Also if you only crimp would the amount of weed seeds begin to reduce as new seeds are not brought to the surface. Thank you

 

[SD51555]

SD thank you for your vast knowledge. It's impressive. Two more scenarios when the ground is newly rotod or disced I understand millions of new seeds float to the surface is this basically adding a lifetime of fighting new weeds. Also if you only crimp would the amount of weed seeds begin to reduce as new seeds are not brought to the surface. Thank you

Timing is everything. You could set off a real mess with a tillage pass, but sometimes they are necessary to clean the slate and start over, or even level out new uneven ground. It’s best to do it late summer or early fall when most won’t germinate the rest of the year.

Get it sealed back up quickly with a diverse blend heavy on rye and other big biomass plants from the four major plant categories, and the more the merrier.

Crimping won’t get most weeds. It’s actually very few that it works on. The best way to beat weeds is to make sure you don’t give them any advantages or openings to take hold. Green, big, diverse.


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[Foggy47]

SD thank you for your vast knowledge. It's impressive. Two more scenarios when the ground is newly rotod or disced I understand millions of new seeds float to the surface is this basically adding a lifetime of fighting new weeds. Also if you only crimp would the amount of weed seeds begin to reduce as new seeds are not brought to the surface. Thank you

No doubt that the less disturbing of your soil....the less issues with future weeds....tho "something" is going to take up that space. Placing "good" seeds in a viable situation tends to "crowd-out" the space for less than favorable (weed) species.

Think about the numbers of weed seeds that have dropped onto your soil in the past 20 years or so. They are relatively small, wimpy, seeds, laying there waiting for some sun and germination opportunity. Tillage can provide that opportunity. Crimping mostly kills long stem plants like grasses....and has little effect on broadleaf species. When done at the right time.....It cuts off the nutrient circulation from the stem to the seed head....and thus "terminates" those long-stem plants from fulfilling their process of seed production.

Not sure that roller crimping is the end all.....but it does provide a great means of providing an even mat of mulch over my plots to reduce the open spaces needed for new weeds to grow. And....it slows the decomposition of that straw for weed suppression thus giving my following seeds a great space to grow. Mowing or a chemical kill....does not provide these same bennies.....IMO.

 

[farmlegend]

This year I spot sprayed some thistle and mullein in June....by just driving through my standing rye / clover to get to the weeds. The rye mostly stood back up. Then I roller crimped in Mid July......and a week later checked for weeds. Spotty clover was coming in......and so were some weeds. I used Glyphosate in some areas to terminate and / or set back the clover in order to drill brassica / clover which I did just recently. In better clover areas I used Imox to take out the weeds and also drilled a brassica mix into the clovers.

I think I did a good job of controlling the weeds but I did see a bit of mares tail again this week. (Might be able to take the tops off next week with the flail mower (?) but will see if it's an issue next week).

This year we are getting adequate rains.....so my plans are working out. Last year same effort.....no rain....and not good results.

On marestail, I have found this essay wonderful: https://prairieecologist.com/2018/08/29/admirable-abundant-and-adaptable-but-not-aggressive/

As the article explains, marestail is very invasive, but not aggressive - it does not handle competition well. Which is why it typically thrives when glyphosate is applied.

FWIW, a multi-species cover crop strategy, with living roots in the soil as much as possible, pretty much eliminates marestail. I'm in year three of such a project, and the marestail is 95% gone. It was abundant in year one, common in year two, and essentially no longer an issue in year three.


Someone here mentioned horsetail, and that is a different weed entirely.

 

[Foggy47]

On marestail, I have found this essay wonderful: https://prairieecologist.com/2018/08/29/admirable-abundant-and-adaptable-but-not-aggressive/

As the article explains, marestail is very invasive, but not aggressive - it does not handle competition well. Which is why it typically thrives when glyphosate is applied.

FWIW, a multi-species cover crop strategy, with living roots in the soil as much as possible, pretty much eliminates marestail. I'm in year three of such a project, and the marestail is 95% gone. It was abundant in year one, common in year two, and essentially no longer an issue in year three.


Someone here mentioned horsetail, and that is a different weed entirely.

Good article Farmlegend......and pretty much confirms my experience with the marestail this past year. For a little while I was in a panic over those weeds....but now it's nothing burger.....and I better understand it now. This no-till gig makes some of these events pretty interesting. Lots to learn.....and experience is the best teacher.

 

[farmlegend]

.....and experience is the best teacher.

Because it's so damned expensive!

In year one of my cover-crop planting, I'd also planted an adjacent 30a of warmseason grasses and forbs. Marestail was EVERYWHERE and I was freaking out over it. The linked article was very helpful for me. FWIW, I mowed a good-sized portion of the prairie planting, more or less as an experiment. The mowing did nothing to the marestail except piss it off, and it sprouted back with a veangance. By year two, it looked no different than the unmowed portion.

 

[SD51555]

On marestail, I have found this essay wonderful: https://prairieecologist.com/2018/08/29/admirable-abundant-and-adaptable-but-not-aggressive/

As the article explains, marestail is very invasive, but not aggressive - it does not handle competition well. Which is why it typically thrives when glyphosate is applied.

FWIW, a multi-species cover crop strategy, with living roots in the soil as much as possible, pretty much eliminates marestail. I'm in year three of such a project, and the marestail is 95% gone. It was abundant in year one, common in year two, and essentially no longer an issue in year three.


Someone here mentioned horsetail, and that is a different weed entirely.

Horsetail loves K fertilizer, low pH, and poor drainage. Cure it with lime, don’t apply K, and oxygen or drainage.

I have a PHD in horsetail management.


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[Foggy47]

Horsetail loves K fertilizer, low pH, and poor drainage. Cure it with lime, don’t apply K, and oxygen or drainage.

I have a PHD in horsetail management.


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^ Funny stuff!. I like to say: "I graduated Magna Cum Laude from the School of Hard Knocks". grin.

 

[buckdeer1]

I plant Real World soybeans enlist now so that I can spray generic liberty Interline mixed with roundup.This will kill pigweed and marestail.This year I skipped the pre emergant which was a mistake.It's really dry and I have pigweed so I will spray and redill wheat and oats into my 10 inch tall beans this week.It's helps with chemical with a SIL that farms over 4000 acres and keeps about every chemical you would need.

 

[matinc]

Question since I broadcasted 300 pounds of rye over labor day weekend and have only a 1/2 inch of rain since and nothing has germinated is it still a waiting game.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Timing is everything. You could set off a real mess with a tillage pass, but sometimes they are necessary to clean the slate and start over, or even level out new uneven ground. It’s best to do it late summer or early fall when most won’t germinate the rest of the year.

Get it sealed back up quickly with a diverse blend heavy on rye and other big biomass plants from the four major plant categories, and the more the merrier.

Crimping won’t get most weeds. It’s actually very few that it works on. The best way to beat weeds is to make sure you don’t give them any advantages or openings to take hold. Green, big, diverse.


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Crimping seems to "release" my weeds

bill