Glyphosate (dangerous??)

[Tap]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but I know guys are using Roundup on more than just plots, so I thought I'd post it here.
First off, I'm not crying wolf or saying the sky is falling, I'm just sharing something I was told at a doctor's appointment.
A little background info as to why I was at this particular doctor...
I've been having blood issues since 2012. Low white count and lately a very low Neutrophil count. Neutrophils are the part of white cells that fight infection.
My primary care doc finally sent me to a blood specialist and he saw things about my white cells that he didn't like, so he sent me to an oncologist, who, also agreed there was a potentially serious issue. At first, he tested for Leukemia by doing a bone marrow biopsy...came back neg. Then I started developing daily chills, followed by fevers as high as 104.6, followed by night sweats.
I spent 2 days in the ER and another 2 days admitted.
Then they turned attention to Lymphoma possibilities and did a CT scan...also negative, except it showed a couple small cysts (?) on my liver which could be a sign of a fungal infection. So they sent me to a infectious disease doc.

Here comes the part about Roundup...
The nurse was asking questions about our lifestyle and my wife said we have 31 acres and do a lot of habitat work. Without hesitation, the nurse asked if I use Roundup. You can probably guess what the answer to that was.
She immediately said "Throw it away! It's one of the most dangerous chemicals that is on the market". She claimed that when we spray Roundup, the plants release fungus that we breathe-in and that fungal infections are among the most difficult to treat. There are many thousands of fungai so identifying which one is causing an infection and how to treat it can be challenging.

I know there has been debate on these forums about the safety of Roundup. I tend to trust that it isn't that bad. I don't know if this is just another scare like alar, coffee, eggs or 90 other things that the scare turns out to be bogus.
I will say that I've never worn a respirator while spraying. I'm usually a little lazy about PPE, except when using a chainsaw. But from now on, I won't be spraying without a mask.

The docs still haven't figured out what my problem is, but I can tell you that this ordeal is getting mighty old. Seems like I'm in a different waiting room almost every other day. Now I have to get twice-per-week injections of a $5,000 per shot drug (Neupogen)...so they tell me. Google says $350 per injection.

Diseases related to ticks have come back negative, too.

Was any of this caused by Roundup? IDK, but the nurse thinks it's a distinct possibility.
What I do know is that I can't imagine managing my property without herbicides, and I also know that I will no longer be nonchalant about using PPE.
I'm not trying to start a debate about Roundup...just thought I'd share my story in case it can help anyone avoid illness.

 

[Nova]

Just wondering if you asked the nurse, is it just round up that causes the plants to release the fungus or is it all herbicides? And was it "round up" brand or gly?
Sorry to hear about your health issues, I hope it works out for you!

 

[Tap]

Just wondering if you asked the nurse, is it just round up that causes the plants to release the fungus or is it all herbicides? And was it "round up" brand or gly?
Sorry to hear about your health issues, I hope it works out for you!

I didn't ask about other herbicides...I was thinking that my wife had already heard too much! I didn't want to open up a larger can of worms.
The nurse never said "glyphosate", she used the term "Roundup".
And I'm not sure if the nurse was a "full of crap, greenie weenie, nothing but organic" type of person or not. She could be full of hot air for all I know. I'm just sharing info...not sure how valid it is.

 

[DrDirtNap]

I’m very sorry to hear about your health issues an I sincerely hope that you are on your way to a speedy recovery.
There are thousands of farmers that spray thousands of acres with Roundup every year with no ill effects. Let’s not ignore that fact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tap]

I’m very sorry to hear about your health issues an I sincerely hope that you are on your way to a speedy recovery.
There are thousands of farmers that spray thousands of acres with Roundup every year with no ill effects. Let’s not ignore that fact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Believe me, I'm not ignoring that fact. Actually, its one of my arguments to my wife that I keep using it.
Roundup may not be the cause of my issues, but it might contribute to problems if someone already has health issues.
Hey, I'm still " pro glyphosate", but I won't be spraying in the future without proper PPE.

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[bigbendmarine]

"The nurse never said "glyphosate", she used the term "Roundup". And I'm not sure if the nurse was a "full of crap, greenie weenie, nothing but organic" type of person or not. She could be full of hot air for all I know. I'm just sharing info...not sure how valid it is.

Being married to a physician as well as being responsible for hiring / managing staff, I'd say while not certain that the "hot air" theory is spot-on, it is a distinct possibility.

I'd certainly trust a physician citing data / studies and or a nurse pointing to actual published pubmed studies more.

Stereotyping a bit, but specialist docs are going to tend to be most cautious speaking to data driven studies (due to avg of 7 to 8 years post-graduate studies), Masters level Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners next with 2 to 3 years of post-grad studies, followed by nurses... some of whom are SUPERB, smart, and hard working but also with some a bit less so and with a tendency for some to lean a bit more to less data driven holistic recommendations / feedback to patients. Not on exact same subject topic, but as an example here's a Doc my wife LOVES following his videos for the sarcastic humor he provides on hot topics. If memory serves, in this one he rails a bit on some nurses recommending holistic use of "organic" essential oils to patients. Again, Tap, want to be sure you don't read into my share that I don't trust the nurse may be right... just that I'd be a bit more skeptical without doing search for supporting hard data studies... and pubmed really is a great place to start where you can do keyword searches... and often find that there may be conflicting data studies / interpretations even within the academic study ranks.

 

[bigbendmarine]

And have to add hope you soon find some answers / feel better! Also will add lest I sound like I'm a big gly defender I rarely use it. Occasionally do to control weeds along a fence on my place but not in my plots as I've learned to live / accept certain level of weeds across my place.

 

[Tap]

"The nurse never said "glyphosate", she used the term "Roundup". And I'm not sure if the nurse was a "full of crap, greenie weenie, nothing but organic" type of person or not. She could be full of hot air for all I know. I'm just sharing info...not sure how valid it is.

Being married to a physician as well as being responsible for hiring / managing staff, I'd say while not certain that the "hot air" theory is spot-on, it is a distinct possibility.

I'd certainly trust a physician citing data / studies and or a nurse pointing to actual published pubmed studies more.

Stereotyping a bit, but specialist docs are going to tend to be most cautious speaking to data driven studies (due to avg of 7 to 8 years post-graduate studies), Masters level Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners next with 2 to 3 years of post-grad studies, followed by nurses... some of whom are SUPERB, smart, and hard working but also with some a bit less so and with a tendency for some to lean a bit more to less data driven holistic recommendations / feedback to patients. Not on exact same subject topic, but as an example here's a Doc my wife LOVES following his videos for the sarcastic humor he provides on hot topics. If memory serves, in this one he rails a bit on some nurses recommending holistic use of "organic" essential oils to patients. Again, Tap, want to be sure you don't read into my share that I don't trust the nurse may be right... just that I'd be a bit more skeptical without doing search for supporting hard data studies... and pubmed really is a great place to start where you can do keyword searches... and often find that there may be conflicting data studies / interpretations even within the academic study ranks.

The nurse did talk of lawsuits based on studies but she never named the lawsuits or studies. I'm highly sceptical of lawsuits when corporations or deep pockets are named in the complaint. The world is sue crazy.

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[Native Hunter]

Tap, sorry to hear about the health problems and wishing you the best.

I will be watching this thread, but doubt the nurse has anything to back up those claims...

 

[bbcoach]

All chemicals are harmful in one since or another. I heard Round up causes cancer. If it was left up to California, everything would cause cancer. Glyphosate should be treated as all other man made chemicals. Read the labels, protect yourself when mixing and spraying and wear a mask. We need to understand, everything that we eat, drink, touch carries risk, we have to judge whether the risk out ways the benefit. Thanks for sharing your symptoms and what the nurse stated concerning Round up. I pray that your symptoms will leave and never return. If you get a definitive diagnoses Tap, please share with us.

 

[yoderjac]

Tap,

Sorry to hear about your health. There is no solid science behind what your nurse is telling you. There has been a lot of hoopla in the media accusing gly of many things. As herbicides go, it is one of the safest. Having said that, I would not drink the stuff and I'd use proper protection when using it. The same goes for all household and farm chemicals.

If you are concerned, I'd certainly discuss it with your physician, but I wouldn't put much stock in what that nurse is telling you.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

Tap,

Sorry to hear about your health. There is no solid science behind what your nurse is telling you. There has been a lot of hoopla in the media accusing gly of many things. As herbicides go, it is one of the safest. Having said that, I would not drink the stuff and I'd use proper protection when using it. The same goes for all household and farm chemicals.

If you are concerned, I'd certainly discuss it with your physician, but I wouldn't put much stock in what that nurse is telling you.

Thanks,

Jack

I definitely lean towards your view point on the stuff. At this point, the doctors are grasping at straws (so to speak) trying to figure out what my deal is. It could be a combination of RA meds, blood thinners, allergy meds, exposure to something on my property or who knows what??
Just thought I'd share what I was told...not saying that I endorse it.
I do know that there has been debate about gly and cancer. Maybe for some of us that already have immune system issues, gly, combined with other meds or substances may cause problems whose connections have yet to be discovered by medical science. I'm certainly not claiming to have the answers.

 

[bigbendmarine]

If it was left up to California, everything would cause cancer.

Doctor that goes by ZDogg covers the "In California EVERYTHING Causes Cancer" topic directly... I found it a fairly entertaining watch. Will caveat language can get PG-13 and occasionally R rated when he's really fired up on a topic.

 

[mikmaze]

Being married to a physician as well as being responsible for hiring / managing staff, I'd say while not certain that the "hot air" theory is spot-on, it is a distinct possibility.

I'd certainly trust a physician citing data / studies and or a nurse pointing to actual published pubmed studies more.

Stereotyping a bit, but specialist docs are going to tend to be most cautious speaking to data driven studies (due to avg of 7 to 8 years post-graduate studies), Masters level Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners next with 2 to 3 years of post-grad studies, followed by nurses... some of whom are SUPERB, smart, and hard working but also with some a bit less so and with a tendency for some to lean a bit more to less data driven holistic recommendations / feedback to patients. Not on exact same subject topic, but as an example here's a Doc my wife LOVES following his videos for the sarcastic humor he provides on hot topics. If memory serves, in this one he rails a bit on some nurses recommending holistic use of "organic" essential oils to patients. Again, Tap, want to be sure you don't read into my share that I don't trust the nurse may be right... just that I'd be a bit more skeptical without doing search for supporting hard data studies... and pubmed really is a great place to start where you can do keyword searches... and often find that there may be conflicting data studies / interpretations even within the academic study ranks.

not sure about lavender oil, but if the opposite sex wants larger breasts, they should rub toilet paper between them once or twice a day, after all they been doing that for years with thier bottoms and look how they have grown..........

 

[Bill]

Well that sucks!

Honestly, My first thought was how bad that MAM weed ripped you up last summer. Wonder if tht crap has any bad stuff on it.

 

[MRBB]

sorry didn't read all post, so sorry if this is double info

BUT round up and like chemicals ARE NOT good for you, thats simple info
BUT it can be used safely
ALL humans have different tollerances to things
what one person might get sick from another might not, if you follow

and then there are simple rules about chemical use
Mist, vapor, drift, human skin contact,. breathing in fumes, etc.

all come into play
so, yes 100% you can have reactions to any chemical at times and to some it will be way worse than others

I am down to one lung, and other one is is BAD shape(both were excessivly full of tumors and one still is)

and like you, I used many chemicals at my full time job and 20+ yrs of chemicals on farming use and food plot makings


I started with DR's testing me for countless amounts of things, and in all the testing they coudl NEVER prove or pin point WHAT really caused all my issue's
as SO many chemicals in so many things these days, NO way to PROVE what actually did it, was the end result of yrs of being a test dummy for test and testing what all my insurance was willing to pay for
I worked with chemicals 12+ hrs a day for 22+ yrs at my main job, from the early yrs LONG before there were really safety RULES I never seen a breathing respirator that MANY chemicals towards the end required to be worn, YET I could never PROVE my health issue's came from using said chemicals at work
I also, never was one to wear one on the farms
and cannot tell you HOW many times I had chemicals make contact with my skin, that I would simply over look and blow off as OH WELL< too late now and keep working
I was in SO many Dr offices so many days a week, it was NUTs and cannot tell you HOW many drugs they TRIED on me to correct, stop or?? solve my issue's
I became a test dummy or so I felt, and simply GAVE UP
I told all the dr's and specialist
I'm DONE< I'll come back when things get really bad, so they can pin point things easier
that was 18 yrs ago
I never stopped working with round up and many other chemicals, I don't always take the precautions maybe I should
I sort of view things as damage is well past done on me, so what will be will be
honestly things have NOT gotten much worse by me STOPPING all treatment and drug they gave me or not making appointments and spending valuable time to me in DR's offices
the amount of chemicals were exposed to on a daily basis is mind blowing if you look at thing closly
long story short
do what you can to keep chemicals OFF you, and out of your lungs but I doubt round up use as MOST food plotters use it, is any more dangerous than going shopping
and heck, we all know driving in a hevicle is super dangerous, and proven everyone will be in a car crash in there life time(most several)
yet very few think twice of driving or being a car/truck!

I will, take round up risk, to save me money on loosing hard worked for food plots any day of the week LOL

 

[Barndog56]

I no longer use glyphosate, not because of the dangers it may or may not present to me, but because of what it does to soil biology and minerals. Glyphosate is harmful to the bacteria and fungi in the soil that feed our plants, and to earthworms that make micronutrients available to them. Glyphosate also acts as a chelator, tieing up soil minerals so they are no longer available for use by plants.

Good luck with your continuing battle Tap!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Tap - I'm sorry to hear of your health problems. I hope you get answers and appropriate treatment.

Just for everyone's benefit - A dust mask WILL NOT protect you from chemical mist and vapors. Only one approved for that purpose will work effectively, and they aren't cheap. Whether you're spraying gly, bug spray, fungicides, stripping paint, or gluing pvc fittings together - a dust mask does nothing for you. Do your homework !!!

 

[yoderjac]

I no longer use glyphosate, not because of the dangers it may or may not present to me, but because of what it does to soil biology and minerals. Glyphosate is harmful to the bacteria and fungi in the soil that feed our plants, and to earthworms that make micronutrients available to them. Glyphosate also acts as a chelator, tieing up soil minerals so they are no longer available for use by plants.

Good luck with your continuing battle Tap!

Love to read those studies. Can you point us to some in peer review journals?

 

[Barndog56]

https://www.soilassociation.org/media/7202/glyphosate-and-soil-health-full-report.pdf

This is a summary of other research, with plenty of references at the end.