Glyphosate (dangerous??)

[Tap]

sorry didn't read all post, so sorry if this is double info

BUT round up and like chemicals ARE NOT good for you, thats simple info
BUT it can be used safely
ALL humans have different tollerances to things
what one person might get sick from another might not, if you follow

and then there are simple rules about chemical use
Mist, vapor, drift, human skin contact,. breathing in fumes, etc.

all come into play
so, yes 100% you can have reactions to any chemical at times and to some it will be way worse than others

I am down to one lung, and other one is is BAD shape(both were excessivly full of tumors and one still is)

and like you, I used many chemicals at my full time job and 20+ yrs of chemicals on farming use and food plot makings


I started with DR's testing me for countless amounts of things, and in all the testing they coudl NEVER prove or pin point WHAT really caused all my issue's
as SO many chemicals in so many things these days, NO way to PROVE what actually did it, was the end result of yrs of being a test dummy for test and testing what all my insurance was willing to pay for
I worked with chemicals 12+ hrs a day for 22+ yrs at my main job, from the early yrs LONG before there were really safety RULES I never seen a breathing respirator that MANY chemicals towards the end required to be worn, YET I could never PROVE my health issue's came from using said chemicals at work
I also, never was one to wear one on the farms
and cannot tell you HOW many times I had chemicals make contact with my skin, that I would simply over look and blow off as OH WELL< too late now and keep working
I was in SO many Dr offices so many days a week, it was NUTs and cannot tell you HOW many drugs they TRIED on me to correct, stop or?? solve my issue's
I became a test dummy or so I felt, and simply GAVE UP
I told all the dr's and specialist
I'm DONE< I'll come back when things get really bad, so they can pin point things easier
that was 18 yrs ago
I never stopped working with round up and many other chemicals, I don't always take the precautions maybe I should
I sort of view things as damage is well past done on me, so what will be will be
honestly things have NOT gotten much worse by me STOPPING all treatment and drug they gave me or not making appointments and spending valuable time to me in DR's offices
the amount of chemicals were exposed to on a daily basis is mind blowing if you look at thing closly
long story short
do what you can to keep chemicals OFF you, and out of your lungs but I doubt round up use as MOST food plotters use it, is any more dangerous than going shopping
and heck, we all know driving in a hevicle is super dangerous, and proven everyone will be in a car crash in there life time(most several)
yet very few think twice of driving or being a car/truck!

I will, take round up risk, to save me money on loosing hard worked for food plots any day of the week LOL

Other than your single lung issue, you sound quite a bit like me.
I worked in a brewery for 30 years and was exposed to chemicals daily. Then I worked in a steel mill melt shop for 3 years, breathing who knows what??
The last dozen years or so, I've used a handful of different herbicides, a few pesticides and chemical fertilizers.
Now I'm in the doctor merry-go-round. I'm actually sitting in a waiting room right now.

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[Gator]

Curious if you have a cab or open tractor when you spray? Certainly no harm in being cautious whether gly is completely safe or not... Maybe I should use this thread to get me back in a cab tractor like I used to have...<hhmmmm>

 

[MRBB]

I have sprayed in both open and enclosed cabs,
when ever possible I always prefer enclosed cab, as drift is a major issue when not enclosed cab, al the more so when on an ATV and your even closer to the boom lower to the ground too
what many I think don't know, is just cause you cannot see the drift or mist or feel it, doesn't mean your NOT inhaling the fumes and thus the chemical
but as I said chemicals are every where these days
anyone that GROWS so called ORGANIC< IMO is just using the word
all the same water and air around us is used over and over again, and ever time its recycled as it is, run off of what ever BAD was in it still remains to a degree
so its all running down stream and uo and back down in the air
use natural fertilizers(manure) and what did that animal eat/drink?
odds are it ate something treated
were all in a world of everything is NO longer PURE, minus whats melting off in the ice bergs and maybe under them?
as time passesd I expect more and more cvhemicals will be needed to treat things to make them grow and be safe to eat/drink!
it AIN"T going to get better IMO

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

We have lost many of the invert hatches on our trout streams in S.E. MN. that once were heavy. Only a few now remain. It is no secret that AG chemicals have played a huge roll in this. The new treated seeds have made things even worse.

 

[Tap]

Curious if you have a cab or open tractor when you spray? Certainly no harm in being cautious whether gly is completely safe or not... Maybe I should use this thread to get me back in a cab tractor like I used to have...

Open cab. But I do a lot of spot spraying with both backpack sprayer and a little bottle sprayer.
I think the bottle spray is the safest because atomization and air containment of the spray is kept under control.
The boom ATV sprayer (rear mounted with a tractor) probably has more airborne chemical.

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[Tap]

I have sprayed in both open and enclosed cabs,
when ever possible I always prefer enclosed cab, as drift is a major issue when not enclosed cab, al the more so when on an ATV and your even closer to the boom lower to the ground too
what many I think don't know, is just cause you cannot see the drift or mist or feel it, doesn't mean your NOT inhaling the fumes and thus the chemical
but as I said chemicals are every where these days
anyone that GROWS so called ORGANIC< IMO is just using the word
all the same water and air around us is used over and over again, and ever time its recycled as it is, run off of what ever BAD was in it still remains to a degree
so its all running down stream and uo and back down in the air
use natural fertilizers(manure) and what did that animal eat/drink?
odds are it ate something treated
were all in a world of everything is NO longer PURE, minus whats melting off in the ice bergs and maybe under them?
as time passesd I expect more and more cvhemicals will be needed to treat things to make them grow and be safe to eat/drink!
it AIN"T going to get better IMO

The genie is out of the bottle as far as an industrialized world goes. We will never go back to a pure environment, and native flora/fauna without going through another ice age. Its just a fact of our modern existence.

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[Tap]

We have lost many of the invert hatches on our trout streams in S.E. MN. that once were heavy. Only a few now remain. It is no secret that AG chemicals have played a huge roll in this. The new treated seeds have made things even worse.

So what is the solution? We have to feed the world with a finite number of acres available for ag.
Reduce or eliminate the chemicals and ag production will plummet and food costs and all the other non food ag product prices will increase. And more native acreage will need to be consumed for more crops because production per acre will go down without the modern farming practices.
I don't know what the answer to the problem is.

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[yoderjac]

We have lost many of the invert hatches on our trout streams in S.E. MN. that once were heavy. Only a few now remain. It is no secret that AG chemicals have played a huge roll in this. The new treated seeds have made things even worse.

No doubt about that one!

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

So what is the solution? We have to feed the world with a finite number of acres available for ag.
Reduce or eliminate the chemicals and ag production will plummet and food costs and all the other non food ag product prices will increase. And more native acreage will need to be consumed for more crops because production per acre will go down without the modern farming practices.
I don't know what the answer to the problem is.

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People don't drink gasoline.

 

[Nova]

People don't drink gasoline.

I don't really want to pay $6-$10 a gallon for it either...

 

[Red Picqua]

round up breaks down in the soil in 2 weeks. I wear a respirator everytime I spray. 3m pink one. 60923 organic and acid. if i spray my apple trees or round up, I slap it on. Why not?? Go to any lab and you are required to wear one. Look on line at the 3m site for which respirator to buy for chemicals. hundred pages long.. minimum. Been a while since I looked at it, but thats my guess.

for the record.. the nurse. guranteed granola crunching tree hugger but will sit in a tanning bed for three hours to establish her base before she goes down and visits her clan in trailerpark ville, FL. She is obviously listening too way too much NPR.

 

[Nova]

I didn't ask about other herbicides...I was thinking that my wife had already heard too much! I didn't want to open up a larger can of worms.
The nurse never said "glyphosate", she used the term "Roundup".
And I'm not sure if the nurse was a "full of crap, greenie weenie, nothing but organic" type of person or not. She could be full of hot air for all I know. I'm just sharing info...not sure how valid it is.

Thanks for the reply Tap, I was just trying to clarify whether is was a round up thing or a gly thing. I understand you reasoning for not opening that can of worms with the Misses right there.

Again, good luck with your diagnosis and speedy recovery.

 

[Tap]

People don't drink gasoline.

Yes they do. Name one thing that we drink that doesn't rely on oil to get it to our door. Even a water well needs electricity to run the pump. Even a solar panel or wind powered grid uses gasoline or diesel to deliver/install the parts that produce the electricity.
BTW...where did I mention drinking gasoline??

 

[yoderjac]

So what is the solution? We have to feed the world with a finite number of acres available for ag.
Reduce or eliminate the chemicals and ag production will plummet and food costs and all the other non food ag product prices will increase. And more native acreage will need to be consumed for more crops because production per acre will go down without the modern farming practices.
I don't know what the answer to the problem is.

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This issue is not unique to herbicides. It is an issue man has always faced. We, on our own, have an incomplete understanding of nature and our impacts on it as does every other component in nature. Because of some of our unique capabilities as a species to transfer high volumes of information across generations, we can have significantly greater impacts on the rest of nature and those impacts can occur much faster than the impacts of other organisms.

So, the solution is pretty straight forward. First is to recognize that we are Man not God. Next is to recognize that our role is stewardship. To my way of thinking stewardship is not preservation or non use, but instead is wise use. That means using the best science we have available a the time and using sound judgment. It means, not making decisions base on unproven theories or pseudoscience, but at the same time recognizing that a lack of proof does not mean a particular untested theory cannot be true. It means understanding the difference between correlation and causal relationships. It means weighing several important factors, the risk/benefit as well as the impact of the consequences if we make the wrong choice. It means not having a vested interest in the outcome and trying to assemble evidence to support your position, but starting with the evidence and let it lead you to the conclusion.

Stewardship also means understanding that we won't always get it right and keeping an open mind to change our decisions when the evidence changes enough to warrant it as science moves forward. Finally, it means accepting the consequences of our bad choices when we get it wrong.

I've had to deal with chronic conditions for much of my life. I think back a couple of centuries when bleeding the patient was a common practice for most illnesses and invisible germs were completely unknown. We now look back and realize what a tiny fraction of the human condition and disease were understood by the medical community. In another century or two, folks will look back and think the same thing of our time. It is comforting to be able to name a condition. Doctors who use Latin words and phrases like Googlefrats syndrome that mean something like "you've got red blotches and we don't know why", have an important placebo effect on patients who trust in them. For me, there came a point where I could either define my life by trying to explain the condition and label it or I could accept that we current don't have enough knowledge to truly nail it down and simply accept it as part of life and move on managing the symptoms the best I can. I'm not suggesting there is an equivalence between my situation and yours. I spent several years scouring the literature looking for an answer before I came to this position.

I will say this. Our days are numbered from the day we are born. In hindsight, while I would have not chosen it, I've gained more from my physical challenges than I've lost. Being an athlete, a big part of my self image was based on my physical prowess. I would say to the point of arrogance. Humility, empathy, perspective and other characterizes would have never developed as fast without these limitations. As you suffer though your challenges, I encourage you to do your best to keep a big picture perspective.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

Sorry to read about the health issues Tap...that truly sucks.
Have you ever had a doctor check to see if you have any spleen issues?

I've heard same about Roundup being a carcinogen.

 

[Mortenson]

Yes they do. Name one thing that we drink that doesn't rely on oil to get it to our door. Even a water well needs electricity to run the pump. Even a solar panel or wind powered grid uses gasoline or diesel to deliver/install the parts that produce the electricity.
BTW...where did I mention drinking gasoline??

I think he's probably referring to bio fuels such as ethanol and soy diesel.

Hope you get it figured out and treated, Tap.

 

[bbcoach]

Other than your single lung issue, you sound quite a bit like me.
I worked in a brewery for 30 years and was exposed to chemicals daily. Then I worked in a steel mill melt shop for 3 years, breathing who knows what??
The last dozen years or so, I've used a handful of different herbicides, a few pesticides and chemical fertilizers.
Now I'm in the doctor merry-go-round. I'm actually sitting in a waiting room right now.

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Tapper, sounds as if you have had a life time of breathing things you shouldn't have. Round up may have been the trigger but the chemicals in the brewery and breathing the steel mill mixture would be more harmful than glyphosate.

 

[Barndog56]

So what is the solution? We have to feed the world with a finite number of acres available for ag.
Reduce or eliminate the chemicals and ag production will plummet and food costs and all the other non food ag product prices will increase. And more native acreage will need to be consumed for more crops because production per acre will go down without the modern farming practices.
I don't know what the answer to the problem is.

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I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. There are already farmers out there that have dropped the chemicals, focused on soil health, and are producing just as well as before. And producing nutrient rich foods as well. Take a look at some youtube videos by Gabe Brown, Dave Brandt, Advancing Echo Agriculture, and the Bionutrient Food Association.

 

[yoderjac]

https://www.soilassociation.org/media/7202/glyphosate-and-soil-health-full-report.pdf

This is a summary of other research, with plenty of references at the end.

A good read! I find the summary pretty interesting: "The scientific evidence on the impact of glyphosate on the soil and soil life is far from conclusive." You walk away with the perspective of the harms that gly does to soil health. Nature is resilient. My takeaway is different than yours. There is certainly some potential negative impacts but there is nothing conclusive that indicates the harms outweigh the benefits. I'm a soil health advocate and eventually there may be enough evidence to make me change practices. Deep tillage is a time proven method for herbicide-free weed control, but the negative impacts on long-term soil health are well documented. Impacts to soil tilth, burning of OM have a significant long-term effect. Glyphosate is one of the more benign herbicides available.

Like everything else, we look at the evidence available and use our best judgment and men of good conscience can come to different conclusions.

At the rate things are currently going, my guess is that I'll reduce or stop using glyphosate because of a decrease in benefits long before conclusive evidence is available indicating the risks outweigh the current benefits. Forgetting about glyphosate resistance caused by farming (I'm not in a big ag area), once you get a weed that has a natural resistance to gly, continued use advantages that weed (as it does RR crops) against other weeds. Many "weeds" are better deer food than the crops we plant and I'm eliminating those in favor of Marestail (in my case) which has little value to wildlife. So, over time, the benefits of gly are decreasing at a much faster rate than evidence of impacts on soil health is emerging.

To be perfectly honest, I'm beginning to question the cost benefit ratio of most warm season annuals in my area. Most are far more expensive in time and money than fall crops. While summer is probably a greater stress period than winter here, I'm beginning to wonder if there are better ways to address it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Yes they do. Name one thing that we drink that doesn't rely on oil to get it to our door. Even a water well needs electricity to run the pump. Even a solar panel or wind powered grid uses gasoline or diesel to deliver/install the parts that produce the electricity.
BTW...where did I mention drinking gasoline??

You were talking about feeding people. I was talking about fuel mad from corn.

Bio fuels arent keeping the cost at the pump down much if any. It's just another form of ag welfare. We have a serious over production problem in this country. Canada did well by saying they dont need to buy our excess milk when they have enough of their own. Does it hurt the American farmer? Sure it does but they did it to them selves. Every cow added to the heard is just trading a few more dollars today for less in the future. The same goes for corn. Hybred varieties, Round up ready this and triple stack that. There just isn't enough use for all the corn being produced. When that happened you started seeing excuses for producing more of it. Ethonal, plastic, corn syrup put in everything imaginable yadda yadda yadda.

It has nothing to do with feeding the world. It's all about selling more expensive seed.