Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Native Hunter]

I do think cover is our one redeeming quality. Folks on his forum all the time are talking about creating cover on their property. Cover is literally everywhere here. The goal here is food to get them out of cover - or a good pack of hounds. Folks are always talking about the great buck saving regulations Iowa has. They didnt do that by design - they did that to save their deer from being annihilated. A greater percentage of the deer herd is killed every year in Iowa than in AR. We have twice the season they do, we have a two buck limit by any method, we allow dogs, we allow baiting, we hunt during the rut - and we harvest about 20% of the herd every year compared to a harvest of 25% of the herd in Iowa. If we had Iowa’s season structure in AR, you couldnt drive a mile down the road without hitting a deer. If Iowa had our season structure - there wouldnt be a deer left. Nutrition and genetics make their bucks bigger - but I doubt they have more mature deer. The cover is what makes the difference - 100%

Did I hear the magic word “COVER………”

 

[SwampCat]

Did I hear the magic word “COVER………”

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I like your cover a lot better than ours. We have timber and clearcuts in various stages of regrowth. The picture below is an area where I belonged to a lease for a number of years. The patchwork is everything from one year old clearcuts to 75 yr old timber. A lot of this, you can not see 25 ft in front of you. This is an area about 8 miles wide and 20 miles long - and is very typical of southern AR. Deer dogging is a popular hunting method because of the miles of thick cover. While it is nowhere near as visually pleasing as Native’s cover - it is just as effective at hiding deer

 

[Native Hunter]

I like your cover a lot better than ours. We have timber and clearcuts in various stages of regrowth. The picture below is an area where I belonged to a lease for a number of years. The patchwork is everything from one year old clearcuts to 75 yr old timber. A lot of this, you can not see 25 ft in front of you. This is an area about 8 miles wide and 20 miles long - and is very typical of southern AR. Deer dogging is a popular hunting method because of the miles of thick cover. While it is nowhere near as visually pleasing as Native’s cover - it is just as effective at hiding deer

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I wish we had more of your type of cover, because that is what it takes to get age on them. My type of cover helps with nutrition and drawing them in during the rut. Truth is that we need both of these cover types. You could replicate my type of cover with enough work, but I can't replicate yours.

 

[SD51555]

Did I hear the magic word “COVER………”

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You have big block jewelweed.

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[BenAllgood]

I wish we had more of your type of cover, because that is what it takes to get age on them. My type of cover helps with nutrition and drawing them in during the rut. Truth is that we need both of these cover types. You could replicate my type of cover with enough work, but I can't replicate yours.

I drive 10.5 hours to own ground in your landscape area. The cover in these commercial pine plantations down here is not conducive to big bucks unless managed completely different than is done now. I'd take the Midwest over any other landscape.

 

[Native Hunter]

You have big block jewelweed.

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Yes, I do. In about a 5 acre area it dominates - especially if I occasionally kill the competition early before it germinates each year. I estimate in that spot the picture was taken the JW is over 7 feet tall. That is flat land, so no optical illusions.

 

[SwampCat]

Right. Deer university was talking about 7-ish being peak antler growth. The amount of deer that reach 7 in my world is equal to the amount of unicorns I have of my property.

I know they are speaking in generalities, but our deer peak in score at age 4 or 5 for the most part, typically, at 6 or 7 - they are going down hill. But, not always

 

[Brian662]

I've posted this here before and I believe it is widely viewed as area dependent and I would tend to agree.

 

[SwampCat]

I drive 10.5 hours to own ground in your landscape area. The cover in these commercial pine plantations down here is not conducive to big bucks unless managed completely different than is done now. I'd take the Midwest over any other landscape.

I dont think these piney woods are great habitat - meaning I dont think they do much to add quality to a buck. But, what they do, up here at least, is help to add age based strictly on acreage of cover. I know some guys with a very south AR piney woods deer lease who feed a lot of protein. They have a goal of harvesting a 200” buck within the next five years. It wouldnt shock me if they do it. They have come surprisingly close already. They have the age, not so sure about genetics, but definitely lack nutrition. But you can cure nutrition.

Same with my place - we have quite a few five year old bucks - primarily due to quantity of cover. Problem is - our average 5 yr old buck scores 115.. It takes a large amount of 5 yr old bucks to produce a single 140” deer.

On average, what percentage of 5 yr old bucks in KY or IA would score 140”. Sounds like KY needs our density of 5 yr old bucks and we need their nutrition and genetics

 

[TenPoint]

What do they do with the meat then? Discard it?

I think they do get rid of it.

 

[BenAllgood]

I dont think these piney woods are great habitat - meaning I dont think they do much to add quality to a buck. But, what they do, up here at least, is help to add age based strictly on acreage of cover. I know some guys with a very south AR piney woods deer lease who feed a lot of protein. They have a goal of harvesting a 200” buck within the next five years. It wouldnt shock me if they do it. They have come surprisingly close already. They have the age, not so sure about genetics, but definitely lack nutrition. But you can cure nutrition.

Same with my place - we have quite a few five year old bucks - primarily due to quantity of cover. Problem is - our average 5 yr old buck scores 115.. It takes a large amount of 5 yr old bucks to produce a single 140” deer.

On average, what percentage of 5 yr old bucks in KY or IA would score 140”. Sounds like KY needs our density of 5 yr old bucks and we need their nutrition and genetics

Yep. Nutrition is the lacking component for expressing the genetic potential. A few generations of satisfying nutritional requirements shows what that area can produce. Age shows the top end of what a buck is capable of producing given the nutritional plane they are living on.

Deer in KY are much easier to see than what I've experienced in LA. That doesn't help them get the age on. Too much cover handicaps the hunting. There's areas around me in LA where they run dogs so much, it limits the population.

 

[Turkish]

I love to hear your success. It’s uplifting and encouraging. 150 is absolutely a great deer regardless of region. I’m not even under a false illusion that i will have multiple 150’s. I just want older age class bucks. Our landscape doesn’t lend its to deer surviving without restraint. Our herd is 99% reliant on restraint. Almost every deer in our herd will be presented with a shot opportunity in the season. I have to believe your neck of the woods has enough cover to help some survive

That’s what was different in the glory days. Bucks could go years without encountering a hunter.

Yep. Nutrition is the lacking component for expressing the genetic potential. A few generations of satisfying nutritional requirements shows what that area can produce. Age shows the top end of what a buck is capable of producing given the nutritional plane they are living on.

Deer in KY are much easier to see than what I've experienced in LA. That doesn't help them get the age on. Too much cover handicaps the hunting. There's areas around me in LA where they run dogs so much, it limits the population.

My neighbors in SW MS used to dog hunt and I hated it. They switched from hounds to corn feeders and my hunting has never been worse. In 40 years this spot hasn’t hunted so poorly.

In the dog hunting days there were lots fewer hardcore hunters. Top end 3.5 year olds are toast now.

 

[Mortenson]

Loads of bush honeysuckle in these parts. I know it's awful and say what you want. But it keeps bucks alive no doubt in my mind.