Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Foggy47]

It was widely thought around the Mount Horeb, WI in the early 2000s that captive bucks accidentally "escaping" were the cause of CWD being found for the first time in WI.

That is the current thought on the situation in central MN too. Two CWD deer died just outside the fence of a previous captive high fence situation.....changed the area to CWD intensive harvest.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I acually completely disagree with this statement my lease guys are almost without exception looking for trophy class bucks. Now if they bring their kids or grandkids they let them take a smaller buck if it presents itself but that’s understandable to me. Get the kiddos hooked on the sport! Now I’m sure there are areas where my experience isn’t the norm but most guys willing to pay to lease land are looking for mature bucks not the brown it’s down fill the freezer hunter.

Looking for and executing on are two different things. I think a lot of lease guys enter in with grand thoughts and maybe by the end leave with a different mindset. That can come from the mindset of thinking “well I paid my money I’m going to get something out of it”. Same with guided hunters. Both have a small investment vs a landowner so goals often don’t mesh.

On your point about insurance companies. Maybe they have some sway on policy. Heck i probably agree they do have some influence. But this is where i have little sympathy. Hunters are free to make decisions based on what they determine to be right or best. If we can’t pass on something just cause big brother says we are allowed to kill that’s our fault not State Farm’s.

 

[b116757]

It was widely thought around the Mount Horeb, WI in the early 2000s that captive bucks accidentally "escaping" were the cause of CWD being found for the first time in WI.

Maybe this is the case but I know baiting was unbelievable up there back in the day and I like baiting but it was at a whole different level up there bringing in many many deer in a small area feeding on corn. Many guys would feed all winter this was likely the worst case scenario in high snow areas compounding the issue many fold.

 

[homerj]

If we can’t pass on something just cause big brother says we are allowed to kill that’s our fault not State Farm’s.

I agree. Of course, there are an awful lot of hunters who are doing it for the free range, "organic" meat source and couldn't care any less about antlers. Guys like Steven Rinella have brought new hunters into the sport with different mindsets.

 

[homerj]

Maybe this is the case but I know baiting was unbelievable up there back in the day and I like baiting but it was at a whole different level up there bringing in many many deer in a small area feeding on corn. Many guys would feed all winter this was likely the worst case scenario in high snow areas compounding the issue many fold.

Mount Horeb, WI and southwest WI are not "high snow" areas. Baiting occurred for generations with no CWD found.

What did the WI DNR do in response? They baited with corn and shot deer at night.

 

[b116757]

They would have earn a buck and all sorts of goofy deer control measures up there back in the day. The whole CWD thing was a wet dream for the insurance lobby up there.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

I acually completely disagree with this statement my lease guys are almost without exception looking for trophy class bucks. Now if they bring their kids or grandkids they let them take a smaller buck if it presents itself but that’s understandable to me. Get the kiddos hooked on the sport! Now I’m sure there are areas where my experience isn’t the norm but most guys willing to pay to lease land are looking for mature bucks not the brown it’s down fill the freezer hunter.

In the area I am most familiar with, the people leasing ground are literally leasing a fence row in the middle of 300 acres of ag. They come in after crops are harvested and put up tripods or ground blinds in the middle of an ag field for firearm season. They are the type of people that shoot any buck on the last day. If people are leasing a recreational property that is managed for whitetails, obviously that is going to bring a premium price and people looking for trophies will be more likely to pay it.

It is the type of cow pastures or nearly pure ag ground that are being leased today that weren't five years ago. At this point, I am kind of hoping long term leases become a thing.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

In the area I am most familiar with, the people leasing ground are literally leasing a fence row in the middle of 300 acres of ag. They come in after crops are harvested and put up tripods or ground blinds in the middle of an ag field for firearm season. They are the type of people that shoot any buck on the last day. If people are leasing a recreational property that is managed for whitetails, obviously that is going to bring a premium price and people looking for trophies will be more likely to pay it.

It is the type of cow pastures or nearly pure ag ground that are being leased today that weren't five years ago. At this point, I am kind of hoping long term leases become a thing.

Same reason I don’t complain when lease and land prices go out. Theoretically it can weed out some folks.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

But why are people in places like Iowa and northern Missouri, sw Wisconsin talking about the quality of early to mid 2000’s being a thing of lore? Most everything I’m reading and people I happen to speak to seem pretty bearish on the future for high bucks in most midwest states. There are obviously outliers but I see more concern than optimism.

People are definitely better at hunting now than what they were before. The tools we have at our disposal have made it easier. I think they will also make it easier for people to manage deer herds. The culture of "if I don't shoot this deer someone else will" hasn't caught up to the technology yet. It will eventually. Especially when successful hunting cooperatives become more common.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Same reason I don’t complain when lease and land prices go out. Theoretically it can weed out some folks.

I'm worried this will become exclusively a rich man's game and then there will eventually be fewer and fewer hunters to speak/vote on our behalf.

 

[omicron1792]

So I agree with you almost entirely up to the point about the big buck measuring stick. I think bye and large free ranging deer in an area have a maximum size within reason. I think what most big buck hunters want is a mature representation of the species. If that’s 125 in your area or 170. Deer are having an almost impossible time making it to that measuring stick in 99% of areas.

That nails it.

I had this one at a feeder this morning. This is an absolute perfect representation of a mature buck in my area. Or would prob score 140”, nothing like what y’all have up north. But I would be tickled pink.



I think social media and marketing has brought a lot of interest to hunting. 10 years ago all I heard was hunting was dying and we needed to get more people involved. I think we are seeing some of the negatives of more interest in hunting with less massive deer.

That said, we don’t have massive deer in Alabama, and I still love to hunt.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm worried this will become exclusively a rich man's game and then there will eventually be fewer and fewer hunters to speak/vote on our behalf.

Yep. When hunting is made up of people controlling thousands of acres just to shoot a couple bucks a year and folks like this dude in ID -> https://www.themeateater.com/conser...ho-man-exposes-black-market-for-big-game-tags there will be much lower general public opinion of hunting.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I think we all have different things we worry about. Public perception of hunting is so far down the list for me that it’s a non-factor in my mind. I envy a guy who has 2000 acres to himself the hunt. I don’t find that to be selfish or wrong at all. I’m jealous and would do the same if I could

 

[MN Slick]

In the area I am most familiar with, the people leasing ground are literally leasing a fence row in the middle of 300 acres of ag. They come in after crops are harvested and put up tripods or ground blinds in the middle of an ag field for firearm season. They are the type of people that shoot any buck on the last day. If people are leasing a recreational property that is managed for whitetails, obviously that is going to bring a premium price and people looking for trophies will be more likely to pay it.

It is the type of cow pastures or nearly pure ag ground that are being leased today that weren't five years ago. At this point, I am kind of hoping long term leases become a thing.

Are most of the guys from the south by chance? Maybe I'm old but a sense of accomplishment is an important part of hunting for me. Waiting for a random doe to jump a fence with a buck behind it just doesn't do it!

 

[BenAllgood]

No ag, no supplemental feed, no plots, southern deer. Just not hunted (legally). The fence isn't a deer proof enclosure either. Generational security and age will make deer antlers people find hard to believe possible.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Are most of the guys from the south by chance? Maybe I'm old but a sense of accomplishment is an important part of hunting for me. Waiting for a random doe to jump a fence with a buck behind it just doesn't do it!

Your suspicions are correct. They have either been from Mississippi or Alabama.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Your suspicions are correct. They have either been from Mississippi or Alabama.

It’s funny, southern guys aren’t always the best neighbors in my neck of the woods but most often it’s the locals. There’s still a lot of backwoods mentality here.

 

[SwampCat]

In the 1980’s - I shot two bucks every year - the first two I saw. Of the first 20 bucks I killed in tn AR, one was a seven pt and the other 19 were 4 pt or smaller. In the mid 90’s, our state went to a 3 pt antler restriction on one side. It took a few years to show something. People started seeing small 8 pts that no one had ever seen in 40 yrs of hunting. They started seeing so many they started passing some - something they had never done in their life. Not long after, Hunting shows started becoming common on tv with the host passing a lot of deer - it was the perfect storm in our state - the 3 pt reg and hunting shows. Our hunting has continued to get better and it is still improving. So is the hunting in LA. And OK.

Noted big buck states - KY, KS, IA - draw the NR hunters while states like AR, LA, and GA just continue to get better. Who would have ever thought SW GA would have been consistently been producing 160” deer.

Pic below I just recieved while typing this. 30 years ago there would not be any bucks this size killed in a whole county. This is less than half the bucks like this using this one protein bait site. To illustrate what is happening, back in the 80’s - 90% of the deer were either spikes or forkhorns. Now, we rarely even see a spike - and a few forkhorns. I think we are seeing epigenetics at work. I weighed literally hundreds of bucks back in the 80’s when I worked check stations and saw one buck that weighed over 200 lbs. We have killed three off our own place in the last five years and one that weighed 195.



This is the golden age for deer in my area

 

[Hoytvectrix]

It’s funny, southern guys aren’t always the best neighbors in my neck of the woods but most often it’s the locals. There’s still a lot of backwoods mentality here.

Oh there are plenty of those to go around up here too.
For the record I don't think it has anything to do with where people are from. I think it's just a problem with leases in general.

 

[BenAllgood]

On those deer I showed pictures of above, you would think the area is really good for big deer. But, here are the top deer killed in this parish(county).
137 1/8
129 4/8
119 4/8
119 0/8

Here are those deer again. (area that "doesn't have genetics")