Soil quality does not predict plant nutrition available to white-tailed deer

omicron1792 said:
@Baker can you clarify? I was almost positive you had a low fenced area too.
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In Mexico.
Just think about it, there’s no way he could grow those giants in Louisiana, even with all his nutrition, without a fence. Why…age. The lowest hole. His neighbors would be waiting with baited (no pun intended) breathe on the property line.
 
Howboutthemdawgs said:
In Mexico.
Just think about it, there’s no way he could grow those giants in Louisiana, even with all his nutrition, without a fence. Why…age. The lowest hole. His neighbors would be waiting with baited (no pun intended) breathe on the property line.
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Louisiana does put out some monsters, but it takes the age and nutrition. Look at what Tyler Jordan just killed. It was 203" at Honey Brake which is 20,000 acres. Lots of plots and feed, but LOTS of WRP acreage. He killed another giant there too. Louisiana has the potential, but not the management.
 
BenA said:
Louisiana does put out some monsters, but it takes the age and nutrition. Look at what Tyler Jordan just killed. It was 203" at Honey Brake which is 20,000 acres. Lots of plots and feed, but LOTS of WRP acreage. He killed another giant there too. Louisiana has the potential, but not the management.
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Oh absolutely. I’ve seen those islands (which is essentially a high fence without the fence, I want and island!) and those equity clubs and they produce hammers. With that said, 4000 acres is small in that world.
 
Of the 3 ... nutrition, old age, & fenced area ... fenced areas that create captive deer that can reach fully expressed age characteristics through manipulation of diet, stress drivers & levels, selective breeding, selective harvest, etc. The repeatability and consistency of high percentile growth capabilities becomes the norm and not the exception.

In true free range deer, you will need to have the right nutrition in place to support growth. But without a fence, bucks stand little chance to reach an age to take advantage of nutrition.

I don't think many people understand how much nutrition is manipulated in fenced/captive operations. There is no comparison in what can be given in a pen and what mother nature can produce even under the best of circumstances.

That is the same reason why a chicken can be grown from egg to a 5 lbs table ready bird in 6-7 weeks.
 
BenA said:
Louisiana does put out some monsters, but it takes the age and nutrition. Look at what Tyler Jordan just killed. It was 203" at Honey Brake which is 20,000 acres. Lots of plots and feed, but LOTS of WRP acreage. He killed another giant there too. Louisiana has the potential, but not the management.
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Yes La. has tremendous potential especially in certain areas along the rivers. I am very familiar with Honey Brake and the deer Tyler killed. Of note is that Honey Brake borders Delta Plantation, 16,000 acres of conventional agricultural land. Most all of Honey Brake's deer feed all summer in soybeans To their credit H.B strives to let deer age. But without the Delta it would crash within 3 years from over population and plummeting nutrition.
 
Tree Spud said:
Of the 3 ... nutrition, old age, & fenced area ... fenced areas that create captive deer that can reach fully expressed age characteristics through manipulation of diet, stress drivers & levels, selective breeding, selective harvest, etc. The repeatability and consistency of high percentile growth capabilities becomes the norm and not the exception.

In true free range deer, you will need to have the right nutrition in place to support growth. But without a fence, bucks stand little chance to reach an age to take advantage of nutrition.

I don't think many people understand how much nutrition is manipulated in fenced/captive operations. There is no comparison in what can be given in a pen and what mother nature can produce even under the best of circumstances.

That is the same reason why a chicken can be grown from egg to a 5 lbs table ready bird in 6-7 weeks.
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I essentially disagree with every thing in this post.
 
BenA said:
No. He had 1350 and his neighbor had 1150. They fenced the entirety about 2009-10. For 40 years before that of owning and managing it, they rarely shot or even saw deer over 3.5. In over 30 years they never shot a 170 and only a couple 160s. After putting them in captivity, they started killing 190-200s. (Summarizing from what he has said in the past)
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Omicron---This. Specifically La. farm is fenced. In Mexico we have a 6300 acre fenced property and a 2300 acre fenced property. 15,000 acres is low fence. Course none of this has anything to do with this thread. I focus the majority of my gunpowder on nutrition then create circumstances that allow for age. Frankly we work harder and are more concerned for the deers welfare than for what's best for hunters.
 
Tree Spud said:
Of the 3 ... nutrition, old age, & fenced area ... fenced areas that create captive deer that can reach fully expressed age characteristics through manipulation of diet, stress drivers & levels, selective breeding, selective harvest, etc. The repeatability and consistency of high percentile growth capabilities becomes the norm and not the exception.

In true free range deer, you will need to have the right nutrition in place to support growth. But without a fence, bucks stand little chance to reach an age to take advantage of nutrition.

I don't think many people understand how much nutrition is manipulated in fenced/captive operations. There is no comparison in what can be given in a pen and what mother nature can produce even under the best of circumstances.

That is the same reason why a chicken can be grown from egg to a 5 lbs table ready bird in 6-7 weeks.
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I'm sure you've seen what kind of yearlings they're growing in pens now. Where does this end?

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Without a fence, the doe's fawns are able to disperse and much of the habitat/nutrition that land managers strive to achieve becomes the benefit of the neighbors. Thats where the epigenetic line kind of falls a little flat because even with 2000 acres of unfenced land, you can really only control the deer you attract/disperse to your location. With a fence, that all changes. All due respect to Baker and those with fences, it's just not close to the same game. That's not to say that he and others don't work exceptionally hard to achieve their success. It is exponentially harder to achieve success on private land, managed private land, fenced private land, than it is on public due to the time and resources necessary to provide what they need.
 
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