chucker66
5 year old buck +
Better start planning a hunting trip to LA
Soil quality does not predict plant nutrition available to white-tailed deer
- Thread starter BenA
- Start date
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Is that a plot and a feeder in the same location?
Mature bucks are definitely on the plots more frequently at times with cold temps/high pressure in my experience.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
It is. It’s a safe space. I don’t hunt anywhere close so yeah they probably feel very safe. Was nice with clover before the ice and snow event last week and been knocked back
Ironically another guy just came by for a poke now
It’s been a sausage party lately
Brian662
5 year old buck +
Get some food in that thing and you'll give those nice bucks a jump start on their antler growing for next year, couple of dandies there especially with another growing season!
omicron1792
5 year old buck +
Agreed. What kind of show you running Dawg?! Feed those boys.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I have 700lbs of protein in the back of my truck now to get through the next week or so!
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
Nice, how much does that feeder hold?
I’ve been broadcasting shelled corn on ground also besides keeping feeders full and on really cold days with nights under 10 degrees the deer are stacked up all night long along with all kinds of wildlife 24-7.
It’s good to see some of our nice bigger bucks that have made it through hunting season.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
It’s a 2000lb feeder. I’m running 2 in “sanctuaries”. Basically places where I won’t hunt and want to attempt to compete with my neighbors corn piles. I generally feed about 4-6 tons from September till Feb. It’s not a lot but it’s enough to keep food in those without emptying a for more than a couple days till I can get back there and refill
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I think what they are saying is a soybean grown in eastern North Carolina has the same nutrients as one grown in Illinois despite the soil types being vastly different in terms of nutrients
Quantity of forbs limits deer growth more than the quality limits their growth, at least insofar as quality is impacted by soil fertility.
I think sometimes poorer sites outpace high quality soils because succession happens more slowly on poorer sites.
TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Is the soil productivity index defined in the article?
The abstract states that this parameter is a poor predictor of deer "quality forage"
If so, how so? By what measures? Tissue analysis? Lotta variables to control for in tissue analysis( part of plant sampled, plant age, ratio of nutrients, etc)
Im not sure the results justify the statement that is the title of the article
I need a metaphysical analysis of this article from one of our deities of soil health
bill
The abstract states that this parameter is a poor predictor of deer "quality forage"
If so, how so? By what measures? Tissue analysis? Lotta variables to control for in tissue analysis( part of plant sampled, plant age, ratio of nutrients, etc)
Im not sure the results justify the statement that is the title of the article
I need a metaphysical analysis of this article from one of our deities of soil health
bill
Telemark
5 year old buck +
I agree. I'm not even convinced the methodology would allow such a conclusion. They tested 4 nutrients? What about micronutrients? Vitamins? Availability throughout the year? How does soil nutrient content affect endocrine function and epigenetics?
The only reasonable conclusion I could draw from what I read was: poor soils produce less deer food than nutrient-rich soils, and forbs have more nutrition than other types of deer forage.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
This document doesn't address soil fertility, but it does address protein levels per time of year of various types of plants. I think it's worth remembering that forbs are only about 44% of a deer's diet, and they are only eaten at certain times of the year. The rest of their diet and the other periods of the year should be considered also.
BenA
5 year old buck +
I like their summary:
"SUMMARY
These data indicate that native landscapes with diverse forb and woody plant communities should provide deer and goat with adequate nutrition during the growing season when animal numbers are balanced with the habitat capacity to support them.
Intensive management strategies such as food plots, feeders and planting monocultures for deer or goats have their place. However, based on these data, native plant communities can meet nutrient requirements for deer and goat with no additional inputs if managed properly. Extensive management of native plant communities should be the primary emphasis of habitat management before intensive management practices are implemented. "
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Yep... and in my opinion native stuff is way more simple than plots; burning, brushhoging, and discing for early successional habitat on a 3yr cycle.
Glad to see this thread back on track. My farm is characterized by poor soils. What I notice is the diversity and specific plant species differ from the rich soils along the Ms. River where I have spent a lot of time. I'll accept that same specie to specie the nutritional analysis is similar rich soils to poor. But also that different and perhaps better species populate stronger soils...maybe. All that said the big difference is volume thus rich soils have a higher carrying capacity. Thats where food plots, controlled burns, opening overstory and other such habitat projects to create more tonnage of food shine. They allow increases in carrying capacity and probably in most circumstances raise the nutritional plane.
First , I dont think this post has anything to do with the original thread. Nonetheless if you want to know why my " opinions" diiffer , here you go.
I am going to assume when you say 'fenced areas' you are referring to legitimate hunt able fenced areas? Areas where deer have normal escape, security, adequate home range habitats etc. With that the idea that you can manipulate their diet is no more valid than a similar open range with the same habitat food plots etc. Deer are going to eat what they want to eat when they want to eat where they want to eat. Period. A fence doesn't change that Stress. Typical stressors for deer are hunting pressure, predators, social stress from being jammed to gather such as when flood compresses habitat, dogs, some human activity and such. I'll speak to my farm. We have bobcats coyotes, rattlesnakes, feral dogs that roam time to time, hunters blasting away at does, trucks on the farm everyday, annual flooding, essentially no material difference in stress. Thats said I do think many properties including lots of low fenced properties have so much hunting pressure they turn deer into paranoid, neurotic psychotic schizophrenic vampire deer. Thats not a function of no fence just bad mgt. Selective breeding....good luck with that. Doesn't happen in the wild. Selective harvest. Thats stuff for another thread. But suffice to say IMO you are not shifting genetics rather controlling population. What a game fence can do is create the 'opportunity' for a deer to age.
If you want to talk about breeder pens thats another topic wherein soils health..... the original topic here....has no bearing.
True...to a point. I agree that the primary advantage of a game fence is that it gives one the ' opportunity' to allow bucks to age. Thus management practices inside the fence determine outcomes. More game fenced properties have been destroyed thru unintelligent mgt. than have been improved. Scale is another way to effect age. Natural boundaries are another way to effect age. Nonetheless as I said elsewhere high nutrition raises the quality of all age classes.
Are you talking about breeder pens? If so that has no relation to a hunting property. None! Nor does it have any relation to soil and habitat quality. For breeding operations it's all about genetics. Line breeding, Artificial insemenation, having in depth knowledge of the genetic line of the male AND female. Nutrition supports that but its genetic control that yields the dramatic change. If you are talking about a hunting property then I will argue you can no more manipulate nutrition in a fenced property than unfenced. Deer gonna do what deer gonna do. I can provide the exact same nutritional plane on fenced or unfenced property and...deer gonna do what deer gonna do.
I raise broiler chickens for meat. They do just that. But only if I buy chickens genetically bred to be a broiler. I buy layer chickens and I could feed them nuclear waste and they won't grow that big that fast. The broilers I raise can hardly walk and would not survive outside the enclosure overnight. The layers are raised on open pasture. It's not the feed. Its the genetics
Again, these are just my opinions and a reflection of my experience . Others may be different.Now, back to soils role for deer.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
The Truth About Fertilizing Oak Trees
If you want oaks on your land to grow more acorns, forget the fertilizer and fire up your chainsaw. Professor Craig Harper at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville routinely repeats this advice when hunters request fertilizing tips for oaks. Harper said hunters typically want a quick way to...
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
It sounds like we agree more than we disagree. And no, I was not talking about breeder pens.