Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Rifle season kicked off this weekend with a bang…literally. I imagine this is what Gaza sounds like right now. Got me to thinking. We have undoubtedly been in some high cotton with regards to deer hunting. Numbers are sky high most places and quality has been outstanding where hunters can get out of their own way and let deer live past 3.5. I fear that we are witnessing a technological boom that is increasing the efficacy of hunters to a point where quality (not so much quantity) suffers greatly. It appears anecdotally at least, that the majority of hunters are fine with taking immature bucks. Between getting texts, seeing things online and a trip to the processor, the quality of deer taken this weekend was a bit shocking. Unless you control huge acreages you are at the mercy of the neighborhood.

So operating under that assumption, the access to inexpensive, high quality, lethal gear combined with liberal game laws will absolutely decrease the quality of bucks we have on the landscape. Flat shooting out of the box rifles, cheap high quality optics, crossbows (ugh), bait (ugh), box stands where elements are all but eliminated, real time game cams, just to name a few things that the majority of hunters have with little skin in the game that gives us the advantage over most 2.5/3.5 yr old bucks.

I hope im wrong and the quality of hunting continues forever but I don’t see a scenario where all this tech doesn’t lead us to be victims of our own success. Sure some deer will slip through the cracks, but I think we look back in 10 years and think about how good the 2010-2020 ish timeframe was.

 

[hillrunner]

Your right about all of it. Every single thing that makes it just a little bit easier for each of us will have the same result across the board.
People's opinions will vary on what's good and what isn't but everything you mentioned is taking a toll. The only way to keep quality high is to limit opportunity.
Imo, hard work should give you an advantage over those who are unwilling. The way it's heading, work ethic is 2nd fiddle to technology.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I think you're on the money. Participation trophies (1 and 2 YO bucks) for everyone!

Throw in CWD management practices where mature bucks are looked at as risky disease spreaders and it makes things even worse.

 

[b116757]

Game cameras are the worst/best tool depending on point of view sure makes patterning animals movements easy

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I think you're on the money. Participation trophies (1 and 2 YO bucks) for everyone!

Throw in CWD management practices where mature bucks are looked at as risky disease spreaders and it makes things even worse.

You see this? If I’m being honest hes spot on

 

[SwampCat]

At least in my area, management for quality deer is higher than ever. It trumps all those degrading hunting techniques you described. We bait, we use crossbows, ml, compound bows, flat shooting rifles, and box stands. We have two months of firearm season with a two buck limit. Yet we probably have more “big” bucks now than since I have been hunting this place. Same with my son in law in Louisiana. They have a three month season. All that artillery is ineffective if you choose not to use it. A lot of people here pass a lot of deer.

I would like to see a study done comparing buck selection by hunters in states with short mg seasons and a one buck limit compared to states with multiple buck limits and longer seasons. Back when we had much shorter seasons, I usually shot the first legal buck - fearing I would run out of time. Now, there is no urgency. Most of the time, I get to the end of season without killing a buck - or if I do it is a mature, bully six pt.

I even know a few folks who are very selective on public - but for the most part, that is a different game. I fear CWD regulations coming to my area much more than I fear crossbows, long range rifles, and bait.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

At least in my area, management for quality deer is higher than ever. It trumps all those degrading hunting techniques you described. We bait, we use crossbows, ml, compound bows, flat shooting rifles, and box stands. We have two months of firearm season with a two buck limit. Yet we probably have more “big” bucks now than since I have been hunting this place. Same with my son in law in Louisiana. They have a three month season. All that artillery is ineffective if you choose not to use it. A lot of people here pass a lot of deer.

I would like to see a study done comparing buck selection by hunters in states with short mg seasons and a one buck limit compared to states with multiple buck limits and longer seasons. Back when we had much shorter seasons, I usually shot the first legal buck - fearing I would run out of time. Now, there is no urgency. Most of the time, I get to the end of season without killing a buck - or if I do it is a mature, bully six pt.

I even know a few folks who are very selective on public - but for the most part, that is a different game. I fear CWD regulations coming to my area much more than I fear crossbows, long range rifles, and bait.

That’s interesting. I wonder as well if there is an out of state vs predominantly in state hunter population. I doubt many guys are coming from all over to hunt your part of the world, and that probably works to your advantage as a manager. I take my neighbors for instance, couple guys out of North Carolina who come up for the first week of rifle season and that’s about it as far as I can tell. They probably leased that ground for $2000 if I’m guessing and have the cost of a hunting license every year. Their skin in the game is basically Nothing. They don’t put any work into the habitat or have any investment to worry about. They are not leaving empty-handed. Obviously they’ll shoot a 170 if it walks out but they will also shoot a beautiful 120 just the same. And then you have an outfitter with a revolving door every 3 days. For $2500 and a long weekend bubba damn sure ain’t going home empty handed.
I have, and continue to hope, that the rise in land prices would bring about a more discerning hunter. The converse to that is it brings more guys onto a property since one guy is hard pressed to afford it. Generally that would be a negative so I’m not sure if the increase is good or bad.

 

[TenPoint]

Crossbows are the boogeyman to a lot of people. But the real boogeyman is hunter restraint. And you'll never get all hunters on the same page in that regard. Everyone hunts for different reasons.

 

[SD51555]

The promise of public land has finally failed in northern MN. We're gonna log another 20-50% decline in harvest in zone 1. And this is after a harvest that was the lowest in roughly 40 years last year. In 2017 my zone within zone 1 harvested over 4500 deer. This year, I bet we don't get over 1100. This was the worst year I'd ever seen, and I haven't heard anything different from anyone else. If the sport is to live on, there needs to be stakeholders to fight against the efforts of the state and deer orgs to wipe out the deer herd.

Unfortunately, in areas like mine where it's 80% or higher government property, there are not enough stakeholders to make a difference. The public land hunters can just walk away and the rest of us do what we can on what little ground we're allowed to improve.

 

[b116757]

More and more corprate owned farms equal more and more unhunted ground so the probability of more mature bucks could go up in those areas

 

[bueller]

Honestly it's our generation that has the stage for this and IMO the problem runs way deeper. I read this article the other day and it rings so true. I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of the members on this forum have made deer hunting way "softer" and easier for their children compared to how they were brought into the sport.

Deer hunting offers opportunity to learn from being uncomfortable - The Republic News

At some point in the life of most adults, the tradition of gifts exchanged at Christmas truly becomes more about giving than receiving. You know you’ve made the turn, when pure joy is derived from seeing excitement in others, especially children, and you recognize your own contentment with...

www.therepublic.com

 

[b116757]

Rack limits only answer for better deer

 

[SwampCat]

That’s interesting. I wonder as well if there is an out of state vs predominantly in state hunter population. I doubt many guys are coming from all over to hunt your part of the world, and that probably works to your advantage as a manager. I take my neighbors for instance, couple guys out of North Carolina who come up for the first week of rifle season and that’s about it as far as I can tell. They probably leased that ground for $2000 if I’m guessing and have the cost of a hunting license every year. Their skin in the game is basically Nothing. They don’t put any work into the habitat or have any investment to worry about. They are not leaving empty-handed. Obviously they’ll shoot a 170 if it walks out but they will also shoot a beautiful 120 just the same. And then you have an outfitter with a revolving door every 3 days. For $2500 and a long weekend bubba damn sure ain’t going home empty handed.
I have, and continue to hope, that the rise in land prices would bring about a more discerning hunter. The converse to that is it brings more guys onto a property since one guy is hard pressed to afford it. Generally that would be a negative so I’m not sure if the increase is good or bad.

I am sure you are right with the number of NR who travel to KY to hunt. Not many that many NR come to AR to hunt. It would really be interesting to see what we could grow down here with a two week season - but you might not be able to drive down the road without hitting one they would be so thick from a short season.

 

[SwampCat]

Honestly it's our generation that has the stage for this and IMO the problem runs way deeper. I read this article the other day and it rings so true. I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of the members on this forum have made deer hunting way "softer" and easier for their children compared to how they were brought into the sport.

Deer hunting offers opportunity to learn from being uncomfortable - The Republic News

At some point in the life of most adults, the tradition of gifts exchanged at Christmas truly becomes more about giving than receiving. You know you’ve made the turn, when pure joy is derived from seeing excitement in others, especially children, and you recognize your own contentment with...

www.therepublic.com

No doubt. I am very guilty of this. I make it as easy as I can to entice any of my five grand daughters to come hunt with me.

This was two days ago, from a box stand, with a “long range rifle”, over a food plot

 

[Baker]

Wish I could give swampcat 2 likes for his first post. The deer hunting in La. has never been better. More high quality bucks than ever are harvested each yr now . DMAP has been terrific for managing quality. I suspect one significant difference down here is that many hunting properties are generally much larger in scale than up north. High quality optics combined with high quality weapons make for much more humane and effective management. It's not the tools so much as the hunters decisions that define outcomes. Cant remember how many deer I've seen mutilated by shotguns running in front of a pack of dogs. Couldn't be happier those days are over! Granted many folks are not managing deer, but rather habitat hoping to coerce deer to hang around. Maybe I'm just an optimist

 

[Baker]

Hard to believe where that smile can do anything but bring joy and be a good thing!!!

 

[SwampCat]

There is the other side to the story, also. One of my grand daughters killed the deer above - opening day of modern gun. It was the biggest deer I currently have on camera - a slightly bigger one has been a no sho for a week - but no telling what might show up with the rut really kicking off. My area of the state has an average 104” for a five yr old buck. That 134” buck my grand daughter killed is a dang good one for this area.

My son and I were talking as we were cleaning that deer - that no one else will probably want to hunt unless another big one shows up on camera. There is so much more to deer hunting than just killing a big deer - which has been lost in a lot of areas - and that is the camaraderie at camp, tracking deer, telling about the kill (over and over again), cleaning the kill, making a euro out of the skull, processing the meat, cooking and eating the meat - etc. when you only hunt or kill the bull of the woods, there is not much action around the game pole.

While most of my hours are now spent trying to grow or attract a big deer to my place, I am afraid just hunting known big deer has caused us to lose what the total picture is about. It makes me a little bit sick to think of what many of us have become as deer hunters. It is all about g2’s, mass, beam length - and there is so much more to deer hunting.

“Did you see anything this morning?” “Yeah, a couple of dink 8 points and a herd of does.” We talk about them like they are squirrels.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Wish I could give swampcat 2 likes for his first post. The deer hunting in La. has never been better. More high quality bucks than ever are harvested each yr now . DMAP has been terrific for managing quality. I suspect one significant difference down here is that many hunting properties are generally much larger in scale than up north. High quality optics combined with high quality weapons make for much more humane and effective management. It's not the tools so much as the hunters decisions that define outcomes. Cant remember how many deer I've seen mutilated by shotguns running in front of a pack of dogs. Couldn't be happier those days are over! Granted many folks are not managing deer, but rather habitat hoping to coerce deer to hang around. Maybe I'm just an optimist

Right the weapons are just a tool at the end of a decision. I guess the issue I fear is the decision making…
I’m not sure if hunters are more or less willing to shoot younger deer or if they are just more able to based on the equipment.

 

[Tree Spud]

Easier weapons doesn't necessarily equate to better kill numbers. It does make for lazier hunters who do not think they need to learn how to hunt and become proficient with the weapon. My neighbor when he went from compound bow to crossbow was still just as bad at making a kill shot. He wounded just as many deer with a crossbow as he did with his compound.

When I started bow hunting, I learned more about deer hunting in one year than 10 years with a rifle. Practice with the bow became so much more important.

I think the DNR's plan of more & easier weapons will eventually backfire on them with respect to achieving kill #'s. Less effort and discipline does not make for better hunters.

 

[Mortenson]

This weekend is our opener. Bow season was a single 3 hour hunt this year due to work. My dream is to be with my son as he hopefully gets any deer that will put a smile on his face as big as Swampcat's granddaughter's. If that's not the good old days then I'm not sure what is. Anyone who is struggling I'd suggest to maybe start by shutting off their computers, tvs and cell phones. Detach from it maybe even for a couple years. Might not cure it all but I think it would help.