WI Guys.....CDAC 2nd round of meetings this week

[wiscwhip]

Here is a report...http://www.huntersnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/APL_hunters2011_web.pdf ...that may shed some light on what is taking place and why the WI DNR is doing the things they are doing, it is a bit dated now, but the downward sales trend continues. I feel they are trying to stop the "bleeding" of the license dollars much as Nofo has suggested. They are going to do whatever it takes to get revenues back up, and if that means carrying more deer on the landscape, then so be it.

 

[bat man]

The dnr controls dpsm north of hwy 29 due to all the public land and have lost control south of hwy 29 as the vast majority is private lands being managed by landowners. All the left over doe tags proves this. The revenue loss from 30,000 gun season tags including 6,000 nr tags @1 million $$$$ is a scary wakeup call for the dnr.

Are you saying they lost tag sales on the public as the deer herd declined or on the private because...?

 

[bueller]

I think new/young hunter recruitment in today's world is a more of a factor in the drop in sales then the number of deer available to hunters. Seeing that most of northern WI was buck only this year I'd expect not only a drop in harvest up there, but also a drop in license sales.

 

[Terrific_tom]

Although they lost 10,000 gun license sales this year the combined bow and crossbow license sales were up almost 10,000 so total license sales for deer hunting were almost the same.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/281645831.html

 

[wiscwhip]

It's just the fact that they lost over a million in revenue due to lost license sales. It doesn't matter who's not buying tags, it only matters that someone isn't buying them and the primary complaint from public and private land hunters alike is the lower deer numbers. Remember bat man, most of the hunting landowners in WI own 40 acres or less and do zero to minimal habitat work to keep deer on their places, thus lower population overall will net you lower deer sightings per outing, which drive the complaints of no deer. It kind of goes back to what Tree Spud was pointing out in some of his earlier posts. The DNR(and guys like Tree) feels(sees) we have enough deer in most areas, but the average hunter who does no habitat improvements sees less deer than when the population was at peak and wants those days back or they will not buy a license. Thus the DNR must stop the "bleeding" of hunters who are disgruntled(whether it be unrealistic or not) with not seeing as many deer as they did 5 or 10 years ago to keep revenue up. 2 ways to keep license revenue up long term, more hunters(who want more deer) and keep the prices low, or fewer hunters(who are happy with the numbers we have now), that are willing to pay 50% to 100% more than the current rate for a deer license. There is no in between if they wish to keep the revenue stream at the level it is now or what it has been in the recent past.

 

[bueller]

My prediction= NR tags will jump to at least $175 if not $200 over the next 3 years. It's been $160 for a while and this would be a quick fix for the $$$$ issues.

 

[wiscwhip]

Sucks to be you then.:(

 

[bat man]

Our state deer group (MDHA) has an executive board opposed to the proposed audit here in MN as it takes funds from the Game and Fish budget. I don't know what kind of ass backwards thought process that is. They think spending deer license dollars on deer management is a bad idea i guess.

Does anybody have an estimate or link to the total cost of the WI deer audit and how it was funded? Those of us that want the audit to commence want facts to counter the odd logic.

 

[bueller]

Yea $320 right now for bow and gun not including any bonus tags. I really wish they would come up with a discount for landowners, however slight. I expect to pay $350+ in a year or two. And yes I know that it's still cheaper than other states.

 

[bueller]

And drive more nrs away? It takes 40,000 new res sales to equal the 6,000 nr lost sales and they lost 24,000 res sales this year.

Everything goes up in time. They will raise across the board.

 

[bueller]

Guys the DNR doesn't care if there are more deer in northern WI or not. What they do care about is what those that hunt (ie buy licenses) up their perceive. Once the DNR can convince Joe Hunter that the deer have rebounded up there they can once again sell more licenses and doe tags to the hunters, regardless if the herd ever rebounded or not.

 

[bueller]

Add spring/fall turkey=$180, furbearer to shoot a coyote as an nr=$160 now i am at $660 on top of the $20 k in property taxes. Oh and now $20/ doe tag vs. $2 for herd control.

Ouch. Gives me more reason to keep the species I hunt to a minimum.

 

[bat man]

Guys the DNR doesn't care if there are more deer in northern WI or not. What they do care about is what those that hunt (ie buy licenses) up their perceive. Once the DNR can convince Joe Hunter that the deer have rebounded up there they can once again sell more licenses and doe tags to the hunters, regardless if the herd ever rebounded or not.

I don't know about that.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice-

 

[wiscwhip]

Guys the DNR doesn't care if there are more deer in northern WI or not. What they do care about is what those that hunt (ie buy licenses) up their perceive. Once the DNR can convince Joe Hunter that the deer have rebounded up there they can once again sell more licenses and doe tags to the hunters, regardless if the herd ever rebounded or not.

That may be true, you may convince them for a short period of time, but a move like that would only last so long before even the Fudd's figured out they were duped and the herd was still down. They then would again be back to not buying a license. The DNR is not stupid, they realize they must do something that will have long term affects on hunter retention and license sales, short term fixes are not going to sustain their needs for operational dollars. The question remains, as I said before, do you keep hunter numbers at a high level with more deer and low cost licenses or do you say damn the numbers and rely on the fact that the die-hards would be willing to purchase a license and hunt regardless of the license costing twice what it used to? There really aren't any other viable long term choices to sustain revenue.

 

[shawnv]

I remember being a kid and being able to have a great time in the Clark County Forest where I would see does and bucks all the time. A kid there is now hard pressed to see a deer and in this fast paced instant gratification world that does not cut it and they either get bored or they think they suck and want to quit because they also watch what is on outdoor tv and they think that is what hunting should be like.

Up North it's worse and I can't image how hard it would be to keep a youth interested with those kinds of numbers. If the numbers do not come back up North I think in 10 years we'll see the number of gun hunters in this sate drop by 25-30%.

We who hunt seriously shoot ourselves in the foot some because we want to hunt multiple unpressured parcels so we might tie up several acres just for us when 20 years ago the landowner might have let a few other guys in. With that paradigm, it does take many guys to lock up 1000's of acres. I know I've run into that myself where one family member bow hunts one weekend and only gun hunts opening weekend yet the 500 acres they own is now locked up for the entire bow season.

 

[wiscwhip]

I can't say that I totally disagree NoFo. The map below shows just one small example area of where I hunt. The areas in light green are places we had access to back in the late 70's and early 80's when I started hunting. The red area is where we can currently hunt, most of this land was either public or owned by folks who did not hunt and freely gave permission. The red area is only huntable now due to it still being(reenrolled) in FCL and now MFL. I just saw that I missed a huge area in the NE corner of the map near the black line as well which was owned by WI Power and Light Co and in FCL back in the day and is now a huge lakefront subdivision, along with numerous other smaller parcels that I forgot to outline. Access has definitely declined for my group of hunters over the last 25 to 30 years.
And for the guys who are newer to Juneau Co. our group shot a lot of nice bucks off those properties back in those days. 7 that got head mounts(that I can think of), and yes they would have been "mounters" even in places like Buffalo, Shawano, and Waupaca Co. in WI and anywhere in IA, IL, or MO as well.

 

[bueller]

It's sad to see that put on a map. I can relate as we used to hunt a large chunk of power company land along 10th st which is now all small private lakefront/access lots. When I started hunting in the middle 90's we were nearly 100% on public lands. The hunting was not great, but it was good. I can honestly say that if I didn't have private land to hunt in the area I likely would've given up on the public in the area by now, maybe even the State of WI.

 

[wiscwhip]

Bueller, you have no idea! That is just one area I could show you like that. The good old days in that area like so many others are gone and will never be realized again.

 

[dipper]

. I know I've run into that myself where one family member bow hunts one weekend and only gun hunts opening weekend yet the 500 acres they own is now locked up for the entire bow season.

Man I wish I knew of places like this. We could loose 75% of the hunters in my area, and than I'd be seeing some studs.
I never understood why I have to care about Hunter recruitment.

 

[dipper]

You lose political cloutt and voting power. Less dpsm like mn. Ca. Has banned dogs for bear hunting, lion hunting, fishing within 3 miles of the coast, tons of gun restrictions. Copper only now, ect. 37 million pop and only 300,000 hunters.

That isn't ever happening, unless Cwd just starts wiping out deer like crazy. There are places in wi that have few hunters but they few and far between. I can't drive 5 blocks in town without seeing some red neck with deer on his back window of his truck. Pink camo, Hell any camo is trendy fashion. At least in central wi the hunting culture is just too strong.