Wall

[Bowsnbucks]

For all of those here who are for enforcing the laws - how does that get accomplished when budgets keep getting slashed for the agencies that enforce written laws ?? Isn't that more " big government " ?? Or are we expecting folks to work for free watching the borders and bringing employers who break immigration laws for cheap labor to justice ?? How many more courts would be needed to keep additional work load off already backlogged existing courts ?? How would all of these be paid for ?? I think the breakers of those laws should be the ones fined & imprisoned - not sock taxpayers with the bill for others' transgressions.

As for being fair across the board on rules, laws, etc. - let me ask this. George Popadopoulas (sp?) got 14 days in jail for his role in dealings with Russian meetings & lying, etc. If that was an aid to a Democrat president or an Independent or Green Party president, would you be screaming for many years in prison, and calling him a traitor ?? Would you be rabidly spewing profanities to describe him ?? If a Democratic president pardoned ( or hinted at pardoning ) folks in his administration that pled guilty to federal crimes / felonies, how would you react to that ?? If your reaction would be different than the same action done by a Republican president or anyone in his administration - then you ARE a hypocrite. We should ALL be pissed when anyone breaks laws & rules just because they think they're above the law / better than the rest of us, etc. - no matter what party they belong to. Maybe if we ALL thought that way, some of the scoundrels from any party would never get a foothold at any level of government.

I agree with those here who say we have technology enough to patrol what we need watched. Tunnels, boats, etc. have been used successfully over the decades, and will be used again. A wall alone isn't going to solve the problem. Hell - the drug cartels will take care of building new tunnels - complete with lights, air circulation, etc.

Complex problems aren't going to be solved by a simplistic answer. For those who suggest that folks fleeing murderous regimes can just "fix" their own country - how do they do that with no weapons ( of any number & quality ), and even a hint of disagreement with the military dictators or drug lords gets you & your family killed ?? Whether they flee to the U.S. or any other country, I think their choice is determined by necessity - get out with your family or risk death for them.

Tree Spud & Baker - ( Just a question - not foaming at the mouth here !! Friendly question. ) What did Mitch Mc. and Paul Ryan ever support Obama on ?? ( Posts # 55 & 56 ) Mitch even stated that their main goal was to make sure he was a one-term president. How did that do anything good for our country ?? Obama proposed increased spending on infrastructure in this country, ( which has been sorely needed for decades ), but they weren't about to agree to that. Then - when he was gone, Trump & the Republicans in Congress couldn't get behind infrastructure spending quick enough. Like the idea was a novel one and one they uniquely came up with. HOW DID THAT POLITICAL P.O.S. HYPOCRACY BENEFIT THE WHOLE COUNTRY AND U.S. WORKERS / ECONOMY BETTER THAN IF IT WAS ENACTED UNDER OBAMA - WHICH WOULD HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN SOONER ?? Obama even joked that Republicans in Congress disagreed with his choice of breakfast food. If it's just a case of "who gets the credit" for a government action, how does that type of behavior benefit our whole country ?? ( And I'm saying this going in either political direction ). Neither side should pull that sh**. If both ( or all ) sides would look for what's best for the whole country - instead of whose political career it's helping - wouldn't we be better off as a country ?? Wouldn't great, honest, transparent behavior earn lots of votes without the corruption / stain of massive amounts of money being spent on never-ending political campaigns ??

Just read Cavey's post. I agree with a lot of it. Common sense - compromise - cool heads - smart heads - both sides take some credit. "My way or the highway" is BS and won't work.

 

[Telemark]

Immigrants are fine, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are the problem.

Agreed.

I AM and immigrant. And I was once an illegal immigrant, and I paid the price (two year ban from Schengen zone, and about $500 fine).

I still have no patience for illegal immigrants or legal immigrants who harm their host country.

People often forget that there is a lot of smuggling across the border. The wall is a good idea, and it would help. Is it worth the cost? I doubt it. A much better first step would be reforming and enforcing our immigration laws.

 

[Telemark]

For all of those here who are for enforcing the laws - how does that get accomplished when budgets keep getting slashed for the agencies that enforce written laws ?? Isn't that more " big government " ??

Allowing and obligating existing law enforcement to enforce our laws is a good start. And prosecuting any government officials who crate "sanctuaries" for illegals. And deporting illegals.

I've been deported. It's not the end of the world. You just get sent back where you came from.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Allowing and obligating existing law enforcement to enforce our laws is a good start. And prosecuting any government officials who crate "sanctuaries" for illegals. And deporting illegals.

I've been deported. It's not the end of the world. You just get sent back where you came from.

Kinda like the game Sorry.

 

[SD51555]

The people of Mexico make up 1.7% of the world's population. They should only be allowed to illegally dump 17,000 people per year of the million we turn a blind eye to. Any more should be deported and those illegal entrances should be awarded to criminals from other countries that don't have a geographic advantage to getting here by being our southern neighbor. That would be most fair.

 

[H20fwler]

I used to be in a duck club for twenty years up in Canada (we always crossed the border legally, never snuck into the country once).
Some friends and I were up at camp and some more buddies were coming up to hunt and crossed at the bridge at Windsor, one of them had been pulled over for a DUI years earlier that got plead down to a Reckless Operation. The Canadians told him he was not welcome in Canada over it and escorted him back across bridge...neither he nor any of us squawked about it all Canada is not our country and we must abide by their rules we were guests. The Central American immigrants should do the same here and follow our legal system and do it the correct way.

 

[Bill]

Republican line towers don’t want a wall because big and small “crooked, but far from all” business’s want cheap labor. And can’t stand that an outsider won.

Democrats want more votes and can’t let the president win at anything. And can’t stand that an outsider won.

The American people who
are not represented want a sign that they matter. That’s why Trump won and that’s why they want a wall. Me included.

Don’t give a crap if it works. Just give a crap that a citizen republic actually still works.

Here’s your sign! If the swamp wins, we all loose!

Glad I left the thread open. To much PC crap these days. At least we are being respectful about disagreeing.

Don’t see that much anymore.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Kinda like the game Sorry.

you are really dating yourself!!!

That game is well over 70 years old

bill

 

[TreeDaddy]

Republican line towers don’t want a wall because big and small “crooked, but far from all” business’s want cheap labor. And can’t stand that an outsider won.

Democrats want more votes and can’t let the president win at anything. And can’t stand that an outsider won.

The American people who
are not represented want a sign that they matter. That’s why Trump won and that’s why they want a wall. Me included.

Don’t give a crap if it works. Just give a crap that a citizen republic actually still works.

Here’s your sign! If the swamp wins, we all loose!

Glad I left the tread open. To much PC crap these days. At least we are being respectful about disagreeing.

Don’t see that much anymore.

"That's the fact,Jack!"........

bill

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I do not disagree with the idea that all immigrants must go through a legal process to come here. That's only right. But Trump branded all those people as criminals, terrorists, drug gangs, etc. How can anyone paint 1500 people with such a broad brush ?? Put them all through "the process" to see who's who, then decide whether to let any of them in. I have no argument with that.

Bill - Again ….. the Republicans didn't let Obama do anything either. So to cry boo-hoo that Dems won't rubber-stamp Trump's whims is the pot calling the kettle black. Playground grid-lock …...…. who benefits ?? Certainly not the country. The politicians keep drawing their paychecks, building their own benefits, and are guaranteed a FAT retirement with all the bells and whistles on OUR dime. All while our infrastructure falls apart, holes in our security ( on many fronts …..... cyber, travel, int. property, student visas to foreigners that then go home and turn against us, etc. ), food safety is going downhill, invasive bugs threaten our food supplies, forests, ……….. on & on. How do any of these problems get addressed if both sides keep acting as they have ??

What if …….. the people DEMANDED that no retirement benefits will go to ANY member of Congress that doesn't produce compromised efforts to address the nation's problems - like in the real world where if you don't do your job...……… you don't get paid. As it stands now, if anyone gets in for one term, they get retirement package

^^^^^^ this won't happen - without massive outcry - because Congress polices itself. What a racket.

Swamp - Seems like Trump has built a pretty impressive swamp of his own. Guilty pleas, folks leaving because they have a conscience, massive turnover ………. I'm not gloating either. It's sad to see the so-called leaders of our country acting as they do. Honor & integrity …… words that are thrown around like rock salt in winter ...……. but seldom lived.

 

[Bill]

Bill - Again ….. the Republicans didn't let Obama do anything either. So to cry boo-hoo that Dems won't rubber-stamp Trump's whims is the pot calling the kettle black.

Ha!
Reread my post. No boo-hoo.
I believe I downed both parties in favor of citizens.

At least the crazies had the Nads to jam through their agenda when they controlled everything. The so called conservatives couldn’t even accomplish that thanks to Mr. Thumbs down and the establishment.

 

[Tree Spud]

Just read Cavey's post. I agree with a lot of it. Common sense - compromise - cool heads - smart heads - both sides take some credit. "My way or the highway" is BS and won't work.

Trump has already compromised, he offered amnesty to those illegals already here to Schumer 2 years ago. Now Shumer & Pelossi are telling him to go pound sand and refuse to work with him.

Trump is now using the tools he has, veto & budget control, to try and get something done. That's a good thing.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bill - ( your 1st post ) - I completely agree the avg. citizen wants to SEE that they matter & have a voice. And if that's the crux of what got Trump elected, shame on the entrenched for only currying favor with the big money, "privileged insiders." I wonder how many of us could get an in-person meeting with our senators. I'll bet if I wrote a check for $25,000 to his/her campaign, or promised a cushy "consulting" job at my company when he or she left office, - a reward for seeing things "my way", those might grease some door locks.

How many citizens can write checks like that ?? Or are in a position to offer a 6 or 7 figure salary for "consulting" ??

 

[cavey]

To many politically disinterested citizens all fighting among ourselves over the trivial scraps of life in our day to day trudging to pay the bills, go to work and raise our families. Somehow the common person got disconnected from politics... the cost of letting these other clones run our country for us is now coming due.

Wanna be a millionaire - become a politician; even at just the local level. Get elected, then start working on your re-election campaign. Then let the special interest groups and lobbyists write the bills/laws for you. It is way to complicated for one person - The honest politician to create new bills. It takes a small army - teams of lawyers, and a large public relations firm to produce a 20,000 page, 50 lb 3 ring binder for each new law. Its is easier to let a hired gun backed by someone with unlimited money to do all the hard work for you - they show up, here's your end product - it will create jobs/votes, you don't have to do a thing. Here is a big donation to your re-election fund. Oh and by the way, buy this stock now - because with this bill, once law, your going to make a ton. And.... once your done and out of office, with that sweet retirement/pension, we will hire you on as a token board member. Just keep playing golf with your old politician buddies.

The joke is on us. It has been for years. Really doesn't matter if your party is Democrat or Republican - your politician is in the pocket of someone. The Koch brothers are the best example of this - they are deep pocketed and brag about how much they are spending to buy politicians... Something like $400 million alone for just mid term elections this year - Ya your individual voice counts - Baaa haaaa. They Brag about it! - straight up tell us!! - "we own your elected officials!!!"

I get why Trump was elected - and I hate Hillary ... Hell I would have voted for Bernie if Hillary had not stolen the democratic ticket - and Im a conservative. If your going to get screwed it might as well be by someone who is going to try and help you - like all good socialist would do - save everyone rather than only look out for the top end of our society... Just for the record I voted independent - I can bad mouth both of them.

I digress.... but I do get why a failed business man multiple times over and horrible reality star got elected and I can even say I like a small handful of some of his original ideas.... and again I flipping despise Hillary - didn't mind Bill. But I understand how Trump got elected - people wanted a change.

Im just, so angered that these people - out of 327,860,934 million people are thee BEST we have. The absolute best :-(

and I digress again....

The Wall, just like welfare is a side show made to distract us. They will never reform welfare and - it is the best stimulus package ever created. Just enough money dumped into the system at the bottom end. That money is stuck into monster/mountain dew/energy drinks, smokes, booze, , cheap plastic kids toys.... monster truck shows, demolition derbies and Wal Marts across this nation ; the bottom end of the taxable food chain. All trickled up in re sales both consumer and supplier purchases simply re taxed again and again. Just enough $$$ to help drive the economy but not enough to tax the average working 24-65 year old completely to death.
Speaking of bleeding us to death financially: the WALL.....IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO AFFORD TO BUILD A PHYSICAL WALL AROUND THIS ENTIRE NATION. And I get the passion among us for border security; Im all for it - hell like I said if it comes to it > shoot every one trying to cross illegally - I will still go through the customs stations, I dont care, bang bang bang. The southern border issue is layered and complicated; if you want it to be - yes we are a nation that wants to help. The words are carved into the statue of liberty. But when does a funnel point for masses of like people seeking a better life - those coming in in such numbers that they saturate a geographical area destroying the concept of a national melting pot to the point that we no longer retain the identity for which they are coming here for... when does it become to high of a cost. I think we are close to that point. Like others have said they just want a better life - and to send money back home.... BUT

We are experiencing one of the greatest transfers of wealth this planet has ever seen. The hording of wealth at the top, and the draining of wealth out the bottom... with not much being leftover for us lower middle class working slobs that pay taxes to keep the country's infrastructure functioning. Money is being tossed around in every direction but my own.

Immigration alone will not save the world's people from hardship; Historically early immigration into this country came at a time when we could still kill and rape our way through a continent of nearly unlimited natural resources and had room to expand economically. I dont think a wall or a "free for all" immigration policy is the answer. Hell, I look around and just see crap every where - walk around your town once and look, really look....Is anyone else seeing what I see? ... crap bags everywhere - decaying towns, once nice towns but now slowly turning to crap...less and less personal pride in home ownership - kids that are disrespectful and youth that are just plain stupid - none functional with poor work ethics; and adults with zero survival skills.

Kind of makes a guy want to go ice fishing................

 

[Bowsnbucks]

^^^^ Boy, Cavey ………… you aren't gonna chainsaw around the perimeter of your ice hut while you're in it are you ??

There are many distractions - and they are played like a vintage violin to achieve their intended goals. If you don't want attention over here on this item, pound the drum loudly over there to get the focus there. People that jump at the first loud mouth who bellows and raises a big fuss would make great fish - easy to snag. How many of us here - when hunting - snap-shoot at the first buck we see ?? Or do we look all around, at every vantage point and opening, to see if something better is available ?? Do we use that same "filter principle" when it comes to our livelihood, our family's welfare, and children's future career prospects ( also to include the environment we leave them ) ?? I look at every angle very closely before I give anyone my vote. I didn't like Hillary either - I wanted a better choice.

To me, the wall is another drum being pounded. Even some fellow Republican politicians say it's a distraction - that the "caravan" isn't the threat it's being trumpeted as. I certainly don't want wide-open, willy-nilly floods of people coming here. All immigrants need to be vetted. A wall just seems to be an aspirin tablet for a plague epidemic - too simplistic to be a cure-all. Will it help in some areas of the landscape ?? Probably. Is it a total answer ?? Def. not. And who was PROMISED would pay for the wall ??

I agree with your assessment of run-down cities and towns. Actually many rural areas too, sadly. Many people have no pride in their homes, yards, vehicles. The neighborhood I grew up in - which was tremendous - is now a sh**hole. Thankfully our sons are doing well, are polite, well educated, and motivated. I have NO FEARS of them holding up their end of the "good, productive citizen" bargain. Whether politicians of any stripe piss things up to the point where kids having all the right tools and ethics can't keep their noses above water - that remains to be seen. Legislation drafted solely with corporations' interests as the focal point will not serve the public at large. The "trickle down" idea results in yellow or brown as the product that's trickling. We've seen that program too many times already. How many of us here are "trickle prosperous" ?? "Trickle secure" ?? Despite working our asses off and playing by all the rules ?? Look in the mirror and ask ourselves "How secure and prosperous am I with all the trickling down that's been done to/on me" ??

As I type this post, I'm not angry, rabidly cussing, pounding the table - not even close. I don't hate anyone for their political views. I just wish we could stay cool enough to reap the good ideas from all sides. I think there are good ideas from several vantage points. Egos prevent many from admitting that that other guy's idea sounds better. Screaming and name-calling only begets more of the same - not good solutions. "United we stand …………. " how does that go again ??

 

[loshonhora]

I do not disagree with the idea that all immigrants must go through a legal process to come here. That's only right. But Trump branded all those people as criminals, terrorists, drug gangs, etc. How can anyone paint 1500 people with such a broad brush ?? Put them all through "the process" to see who's who, then decide whether to let any of them in. I have no argument with that.

Bill - Again ….. the Republicans didn't let Obama do anything either. So to cry boo-hoo that Dems won't rubber-stamp Trump's whims is the pot calling the kettle black. Playground grid-lock …...…. who benefits ?? Certainly not the country. The politicians keep drawing their paychecks, building their own benefits, and are guaranteed a FAT retirement with all the bells and whistles on OUR dime. All while our infrastructure falls apart, holes in our security ( on many fronts …..... cyber, travel, int. property, student visas to foreigners that then go home and turn against us, etc. ), food safety is going downhill, invasive bugs threaten our food supplies, forests, ……….. on & on. How do any of these problems get addressed if both sides keep acting as they have ??

What if …….. the people DEMANDED that no retirement benefits will go to ANY member of Congress that doesn't produce compromised efforts to address the nation's problems - like in the real world where if you don't do your job...……… you don't get paid. As it stands now, if anyone gets in for one term, they get retirement package

^^^^^^ this won't happen - without massive outcry - because Congress polices itself. What a racket.

Swamp - Seems like Trump has built a pretty impressive swamp of his own. Guilty pleas, folks leaving because they have a conscience, massive turnover ………. I'm not gloating either. It's sad to see the so-called leaders of our country acting as they do. Honor & integrity …… words that are thrown around like rock salt in winter ...……. but seldom lived.

President Trump did not brand them all as terrorists, drug gangs, and rapists, etc. He pointed out that many of them are those things, however, and those vicious criminals should be denied entrance. The media and the Democrats lied and attributed false statements to the President, saying that he called "all" of them vicious criminals. On the other hand, anyone who enters the country illegally is by definition, a criminal.

 

[Telemark]

Even some fellow Republican politicians say it's a distraction - that the "caravan" isn't the threat it's being trumpeted as

It absolutely is a threat. The proliferation of santuary cities and policies like DACA gave people the impression that they have a good chance of staying if they make the journey, so they are making it. Same shit happened here in Europe with Syrians, etc. I saw it with my own eyes. Parks in Belgrade full of Arabs sleeping on carsboard boxes and yoga mats, waiting for a chance to cross into the EU. Now they are reaping it. Skyrocketing rape rates in Sweden. No-go zones in Muslim ghettos in Sweden, England, Belgium, etc. It is a real problem.

Don't be fooled. A caravan of impoverished, entitled, ungrateful Hondurans is not what America needs or wants.

 

[chummer]

It’s simple, we have enough assholes. Build the wall and provide all the extras the dems are so eager to fund as long Trump doesn’t get his wall. The cost is a joke compared to what our government spends, it is the equivalent of me putting a new door knob on my front door. Somehow, put in term limits, as in one term. I was happy when Trump won because I hate no one more than Hillary. I thought he would fix the system or burn it down, either way works for me. We won’t know until Meuller’s BS report which one will happen. I fear he will draw it out until 2020 because he has nothing. If he had something we would know or it would be negligent to leave someone in power guilty of things the media says on a daily basis. It is appaulling the net worth of congress. They come in as middle class and leave as 1%ers. Pelosi, Waters, Schumer, Ryan, McConnell, they all make me sick. I did meet Schumer once right after Obama care and NYS safe act(nothing to do with him) was passed. He showed up to an upstate republican crowd and couldn’t have been more annoyed. He passed the blame on every question he got until they ushered him out. Unfortunately, I don’t see a fix to any of it. Obama swung the pendulum so far Trump got elected, God help us which socialist Trump helps get elected next. I don’t stress over any of it. I have two great kids, great wife, no current money issues, and it is Christmas. Just ask yourself, are you better off today than two years ago? The answer is probably yes, the rest is all noise.

 

[cavey]

It’s simple, we have enough assholes., Unfortunately, I don’t see a fix to any of it. , the pendulum so far Trump got elected, God help us which socialist Trump helps get elected next. Just ask yourself, are you better off today than two years ago? The answer is probably yes, the rest is all noise.

True True and True..... the better off part --- well I don't really think getting moved up to first class on a sinking ship is any real type of improvement and after these last few months with the stock market and no hope of a re re correction to the positive side Im a little pissed that these politicians can play with my money like its a chess game.

Your comment on family and Christmas is what gives me hope, we all want things to be better for our kids - the whole pendulum swinging far side to far side and bypassing the middle is the nightmare. We need to jam up the mechanism enough to bring that game to a stop - center this country again. I too just dont hold out to much hope on this happening soon. The stuff we do on these forum keeps us centered and grounded - wish the rest of the world got that

 

[Bowsnbucks]

The middle ………...… The folks who carry it all & make things actually work.