The Throw n’ Mow Method

[DiSc0Rd]

In some kinds of soil, you don't even need to cultipack buckwheat. You can just surface broadcast it. I found that with my heavy clay soil, if I just surface broadcast, my germination rates go down significantly. Rates between till and cover verses just surface broadcast and cultipack are about the same for me.

im in sand, old hunting farm was all clay so im making a huge jump from soil conditions. also, on the old farm my plots were all planted by the farmer next to me. whatever he put in his field went in my plot i didnt have to do anything but show up. so im really starting from scratch on the learning curve.

 

[yoderjac]

im in sand, old hunting farm was all clay so im making a huge jump from soil conditions. also, on the old farm my plots were all planted by the farmer next to me. whatever he put in his field went in my plot i didnt have to do anything but show up. so im really starting from scratch on the learning curve.

You've already taken the best step for sandy soil by choosing T&M techniques. You need to build OM top down and that will take years. You start with an infiltration problem. Lime moves through sand quickly. On heavy clay it may take me over 3 tons per acre to initially amend my soil, but once I've applied it, it can easily be 5 years before I have to apply a low level (1 ton/ac) of maintenance lime to keep it adjusted. With very sandy soil that is acidic, some guys tell me they have to apply heavy lime with each planting.

Understanding your specific soil is the place to start. Folks in the middle with more loam can get away with more abuse to the soil and it recovers. Folks on more marginal soils need to be more cautious.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

You've already taken the best step for sandy soil by choosing T&M techniques. You need to build OM top down and that will take years. You start with an infiltration problem. Lime moves through sand quickly. On heavy clay it may take me over 3 tons per acre to initially amend my soil, but once I've applied it, it can easily be 5 years before I have to apply a low level (1 ton/ac) of maintenance lime to keep it adjusted. With very sandy soil that is acidic, some guys tell me they have to apply heavy lime with each planting.

Understanding your specific soil is the place to start. Folks in the middle with more loam can get away with more abuse to the soil and it recovers. Folks on more marginal soils need to be more cautious.

Thanks,

Jack

i havent done a soil test yet. i hope to get out to it this weekend to get a ph reading and see where im at. year one will just be TnM the buckwheat see how it does then get the rye on the ground in sept and see how that goes. i figure for 40 bucks for 100lb of rye i can afford to experiment and see what the ground will support. i sprayed the small area w gly last fri and i havent been back to see how the kill went. i hope there is a lot of dead plant to lay over the seed when i spread it. but as is said prior we have no rain in the forcast for the next 10 days possibly longer. ill try and get the buckwheat on the ground a few days or the day b4 rain coming so the doves and turkeys dont eat a bunch of it. if it all goes well ill start building the soil for the years to come

 

[yoderjac]

i havent done a soil test yet. i hope to get out to it this weekend to get a ph reading and see where im at. year one will just be TnM the buckwheat see how it does then get the rye on the ground in sept and see how that goes. i figure for 40 bucks for 100lb of rye i can afford to experiment and see what the ground will support. i sprayed the small area w gly last fri and i havent been back to see how the kill went. i hope there is a lot of dead plant to lay over the seed when i spread it. but as is said prior we have no rain in the forcast for the next 10 days possibly longer. ill try and get the buckwheat on the ground a few days or the day b4 rain coming so the doves and turkeys dont eat a bunch of it. if it all goes well ill start building the soil for the years to come

That is a good plan. Both buckwheat and WR are good soil builders and good for building OM. They both tolerate infertile poor pH soil and deer use them. They are some of the easiest to T&M. Good choices. Most guys are quick on the draw. I find going slow like this bending nature a little at a time works best in the long run.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

That is a good plan. Both buckwheat and WR are good soil builders and good for building OM. They both tolerate infertile poor pH soil and deer use them. They are some of the easiest to T&M. Good choices. Most guys are quick on the draw. I find going slow like this bending nature a little at a time works best in the long run.

Thanks,

Jack

thanks. this place has been a real eye opener on how to improve a property and on a budget. it's easy to just tell someone to buy a tractor, clear cut timber, and build paradise in a year. it's hard for a lot of ppl to throw money at a problem and just fix it. not to mention there is something cool about making your place better and watching it improve year to year as you try and make the best property for the deer and the family for years to come.

 

[Barndog56]

Sand? I thought central Illinois was all fertile, black soil?

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Sand? I thought central Illinois was all fertile, black soil?

Most countys around are mine is not

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Checked the field yesterday. Was very pleased with how the spray went. They are calling for rain here Wed so buckwheat goes down tomorrow and I'll hope the rain gods smile on me. The big green in the last picture is a raspberry bush they seem to eat on it so I left it. Next update will have buckwheat coming up, I hope anyway.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Since DBltree popped up in another thread.
It got me thinking.

Why no grains in a brassica plot?

Was planning on doing a 3/4 rate of brassicas, about 4#/A, plus sunflowers around 7#/A.
Then top dress with 100# rye around sept 1.
Top dressing N along the way.

Just easier on the spray schedule this way.
Any thoughts?

 

[yoderjac]

Since DBltree popped up in another thread.
It got me thinking.

Why no grains in a brassica plot?

Was planning on doing a 3/4 rate of brassicas, about 4#/A, plus sunflowers around 7#/A.
Then top dress with 100# rye around sept 1.
Top dressing N along the way.

Just easier on the spray schedule this way.
Any thoughts?

Brassica can shade out other plants so rates need to be kept low in a mix. I plant a cover crop mix for deer in the fall. I used to surface broadcast it into my standing RR beans, but because of a particular weed problem, we no longer plant RR beans for summer forage. I'm now planting a combination of buckwheat and sunn hemp. This year I added some Wild Gamefood Sorghum (milo) to the mix. I either T&M or min-till the cover crop depending on conditions in the fall.

I typically use 2lbs/ac of PTT as my brassica component, about 10 lbs of Crimson Clover as my legume, and 80-100 lbs of WR as my cereal component. I've used warm season annuals like your sunflower idea in the past. While they are very attractive and die at the first frost if not already eaten, I found they don't T&M well for me with those larger seeds. Second, I don't really need that attraction. My mix provides sufficient attraction unless acorns are falling, and when they fall, nothing will draw deer away from them in my area.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

Got to the farm today got the buckwheat on the ground, they are calling for storms tomorrow with more chances Sat and next Tues. If anyone is sacrificing any chickens or goats for rain could you add me in your ritual please.

 

[DiSc0Rd]

huge storms came through today.. i dont think i have ever been so happy for rain

 

[yoderjac]

I happened to be at the farm this week. Took a pic of a min till field. It is sunn hemp, buckwheat, and Wild Game Sorghum. The sunn hemp is so big it is hard to see anything else

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DiSc0Rd]

huge storms came through today.. i dont think i have ever been so happy for rain

So I got the buckwheat on the ground Tuesday. We got rain Wed and Friday. They are calling for rain all this week. Might make a trip on Sat to move some stands. Should I see the buckwheat coming up yet or is that too soon?

 

[yoderjac]

So I got the buckwheat on the ground Tuesday. We got rain Wed and Friday. They are calling for rain all this week. Might make a trip on Sat to move some stands. Should I see the buckwheat coming up yet or is that too soon?

If conditions are right and you know what you are looking for, you may see some. In one more week, you will see it for sure and be able to recognize it.

 

[35-acre]

I got anxious and planted my field yesterday. Then I got soaked from heavy rains an hour later doing other work on my property!!! It was perfect timing.

• Chicory and kale at a rate of 3lbs per acre
• Wheat at 60lbs per acre
• Crimson Clover at 2 lbs per acre
• Rape also at about 2 lbs per acre
• And my all-time favorite: Rolled Horse Oats (feed) at 50/lbs per acre

To finish things off:

• I dropped 120lbs per acre of 10-10-10
• I also dragged the field flat with ONE pass of my harrow drag rake (I did spikes down just to open up the thatch a little. I am SO GLAD that I did this based on the heavy rains that came).

My seedbed looks great compared to what I started with (the field was just hard clay when I had the dozer work done 5 years ago)
I had sprayed this field twice a month ago.


I still had some green in the field. This pic really doesn't really have a good view as it looks more green than it really is because of the trees, when I draw lines to show where the field is it makes me feel better ;)
The green doesn't really worry me too much because of what I've planted (this below pic is prior to me dragging the harrow over everything). Some of the green is around trees that I have planted and this pic doesn't show the bottom of the field (this is on a hill) which is actually the larger part of the field. But before I leave, I remember to snap a pic and this is what I'm left with.

 

[Rit]

I happened to be at the farm this week. Took a pic of a min till field. It is sunn hemp, buckwheat, and Wild Game Sorghum. The sunn hemp is so big it is hard to see anything else

Thanks,

Jack

What’s the fall plan with that? I remember reading the rate at which you planted but don’t recall the rate though.

 

[yoderjac]

What’s the fall plan with that? I remember reading the rate at which you planted but don’t recall the rate though.

I will min-till or throw and mow (depending on my soil condition) for my fall plant. I typically plant a cover crop of PTT/CC/WR in these fields in the fall. I'll probably mow and leave strips of the Sunn Hemp stand as vertical cover for fall. This encourages more daylight use. I keep PTT rates low in a mix, about 2 lbs/ac. I shoot for about 10 lbs/ac of Crimson Clover and 80-100 lbs/ac of WR. Depending on how tall and thick the sunn hemp is, I may need to mow before I broadcast. After broadcasting, I'll cultipack and spray.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Rit]

I will min-till or throw and mow (depending on my soil condition) for my fall plant. I typically plant a cover crop of PTT/CC/WR in these fields in the fall. I'll probably mow and leave strips of the Sunn Hemp stand as vertical cover for fall. This encourages more daylight use. I keep PTT rates low in a mix, about 2 lbs/ac. I shoot for about 10 lbs/ac of Crimson Clover and 80-100 lbs/ac of WR. Depending on how tall and thick the sunn hemp is, I may need to mow before I broadcast. After broadcasting, I'll cultipack and spray.

Thanks,

Jack

Seems like a lot of bio-mass for such small seeds. Although maybe it looks thicker in the photo. I have never held Sunn hemp so not sure of the density. I have TNM’d into really thick WR but those stems are hollow at that point. I am considering adding a little Sunn Hemp into my fall plots for some vertical structure.

 

[yoderjac]

Seems like a lot of bio-mass for such small seeds. Although maybe it looks thicker in the photo. I have never held Sunn hemp so not sure of the density. I have TNM’d into really thick WR but those stems are hollow at that point. I am considering adding a little Sunn Hemp into my fall plots for some vertical structure.

Sunn Hemp stems are hollow. One reason I may min till is to speed decomposition of the sun hemp. A tiller held high enough to hit no more than the top inch of soil chews up the sunn hemp pretty well. I haven't had any real issues so far but I planted the Sunn Hemp a bit thicker this year than last. We will see how it goes in he fall.