Cover Crops ... Food & Soil Improvement

BrushyPines

5 year old buck +
Yea how they ship the crimpers can be tricky to remove from the pallet. I went by the directions from the manual they provided and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
Yea how they ship the crimpers can be tricky to remove from the pallet. I went by the directions from the manual they provided and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.
Same for me. One thing I am not too wild about....it the system for cat 1 and cat 2 attachment. Those pins are a bit funky.....and I worry about losing one....due to the way they have two hole sizes. I've not owned an implement that uses that system.....and the manual really does not cover the right way to use those pins. Kinda a head scratcher for a moment or three.
 

Baker

5 year old buck +
We tried this a bit. Requires a lot of concentration. In the end we decided it was easier to crimp then drill
 

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Tree Spud

5 year old buck +
Kubota mx5400. Love it so far

Will be interesting to get your feedback on how stable the operation is on front mounted FEL.
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
We tried this a bit. Requires a lot of concentration. In the end we decided it was easier to crimp then drill
Looks like Baker has been doing it. Do you still crimp with it on front even though doing two passes?

I bought the 6’ landpride drill. I think it’s the same as the great plain one like you have.
 

TreeDaddy

5 year old buck +
Grant woods videos show drill THEN crimp

Does it make any difference?

bill
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
Grant woods videos show drill THEN crimp

Does it make any difference?

bill
Every video I see of him doing it, one of his 21-year-old interns is doing the tractor time. So I guess it doesn’t really matter to him. I hope to be able to do both in one pass. It seems to me that the laid over plants would be easier for the culters to cut a row through. But I won’t know until I do it about September 15.
 

omicron1792

5 year old buck +
Grant woods videos show drill THEN crimp

Does it make any difference?

bill
Also, he doesn’t crimp his summer crop when planting fall. He wants the beans to stay as long as possible, and the colder weather will prohibit weed pressure.
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
Grant woods videos show drill THEN crimp

Does it make any difference?

bill
Yes it does. If the Rye is not ready to be terminated.....you may only get a 50 to 75% kill....and the remaining rye will go to seed and come back to haunt you. The right time to crimp the rye is in the dough stage....where you can expect 90% or better kill ratio. When roller crimping rye for mulch you need to do so near the end of "Anthesis" (or the dough stage) before the seeds become viable. Several good papers written on this topic. Google is your friend.

My rye is in the "boot stage"....and I am uncertain how long before it reaches anthesis and the dough stage. I see a good guide is called Zadok's Growth Scale. I just dont have a time line on such things. I suppose it is a variable. I planted "green" into the standing rye a week ago. I laid the rye down pretty good when running my tractor and drill thru the rye....but it stook back up in a few days. I am hoping another week will bring the rye to the dough stage...at which time I will roller / crimp it......but I am guessing.

The pic below was my rye see heads today. Anyone tell me how long to achieve the dough stage?? Thanks.

My "risk" is that the rye does not get to the dough stage before my summer release crops may get injured by the roller crimper. I think I got two weeks or so....but that depends on rainfall. Getting a bit dry now.....but the seeds I drilled into this rye / clover have germinated....just starting to break above ground now. Timing is everything. ;). I need to get lucky. :emoji_ok_hand: By planting green....its far easier to get the seed into the ground and germinate.....then get a couple weeks growth before the rye gets terminated.....which will really give the warm season release a jump start. My 2 cents.
 

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TreeDaddy

5 year old buck +
Yes it does. If the Rye is not ready to be terminated.....you may only get a 50 to 75% kill....and the remaining rye will go to seed and come back to haunt you. The right time to crimp the rye is in the dough stage....where you can expect 90% or better kill ratio. When roller crimping rye for mulch you need to do so near the end of "Anthesis" (or the dough stage) before the seeds become viable. Several good papers written on this topic. Google is your friend.

My rye is in the "boot stage"....and I am uncertain how long before it reaches anthesis and the dough stage. I see a good guide is called Zadok's Growth Scale. I just dont have a time line on such things. I suppose it is a variable. I planted "green" into the standing rye a week ago. I laid the rye down pretty good when running my tractor and drill thru the rye....but it stook back up in a few days. I am hoping another week will bring the rye to the dough stage...at which time I will roller / crimp it......but I am guessing.

The pic below was my rye see heads today. Anyone tell me how long to achieve the dough stage?? Thanks.

My "risk" is that the rye does not get to the dough stage before my summer release crops may get injured by the roller crimper. I think I got two weeks or so....but that depends on rainfall. Getting a bit dry now.....but the seeds I drilled into this rye / clover have germinated....just starting to break above ground now. Timing is everything. ;). I need to get lucky. :emoji_ok_hand: By planting green....its far easier to get the seed into the ground and germinate.....then get a couple weeks growth before the rye gets terminated.....which will really give the warm season release a jump start. My 2 cents.

Foggy,

Which do you do first:crimp or drill?

That was my question

thanks,

bill
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
Foggy,

Which do you do first:crimp or drill?

That was my question

thanks,

bill
I drill before crimping. Still have not crimped. Waiting for the rye to get to the right stage. Maybe another week or 10 days??
 

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
I drill before crimping. Still have not crimped. Waiting for the rye to get to the right stage. Maybe another week or 10 days??

That identifies another advantage of crimping over herbicide termination. With herbicide termination, you have a fairly small window to terminate after planting. You don't want germination before termination. With crimping, you can drill or even broadcast and wait quite a while if necessary before crimping.
 

Tree Spud

5 year old buck +
Foggy,

Which do you do first:crimp or drill?

That was my question

thanks,

bill

From what i have read, you can crimp first, but timing of drilling is critical based o termination cycle. It is suggested it is best to either plant immediately after crimping, or wait until plant material has died completely. Apparently at those two stages the plant material is easier for the drill to cut for seed to reach the soil. At the in between stage, the plant stalk structure apparently stiffens making this more difficult.
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
That identifies another advantage of crimping over herbicide termination. With herbicide termination, you have a fairly small window to terminate after planting. You don't want germination before termination. With crimping, you can drill or even broadcast and wait quite a while if necessary before crimping.
This could be a big variable from year to year. This spring it stayed pretty cool and wet. Would have been hard to get planted until early June. Also....we could get a hard freeze until like May 20 IIRC. Other years many plant in mid May or so. I dont think I could "get away" with planting green into standing cereal rye.....and then roller crimping 5 weeks later. With that amount of time.....I would worry that I would terminate much of what I am planting. I think there is about a three week window (maximum?) between the planting date and the rye termination. Kinda a WAG on my part......but I feel that is close.

Still learning my way with this process.
 

River-X

5 year old buck +
I currently have soybeans, summer release blend, peas, and sunflowers all at about 4 inches tall. I plan to roller crimp on Monday weather permitting. I will let you know how it works out. Young plants are incredibly durable to mechanical assault. Just like when we side dress N into corn that is 12 - 24“ tall and you run over plants on the headland rows…most bounce right back in a day or two.
 

River-X

5 year old buck +
I believe there is an ongoing study at the college here also where they are looking at the effectiveness of rolling over soybeans with something like one of those big flat rollers used to smooth hay ground. They roll over the beans when they are 2-4 inches tall and it stimulates them to put down increased root mass. Some of the area growers are already doing this. In reality, they are purposefully trying to assault the plant at a young stage to increase durability of the plant and it’s root structure.
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
I believe there is an ongoing study at the college here also where they are looking at the effectiveness of rolling over soybeans with something like one of those big flat rollers used to smooth hay ground. They roll over the beans when they are 2-4 inches tall and it stimulates them to put down increased root mass. Some of the area growers are already doing this. In reality, they are purposefully trying to assault the plant at a young stage to increase durability of the plant and it’s root structure.
I know that many soy bean farmers in west central MN will use big rollers after planting their beans to level the fields from planting and push stones into the ground. This allows them to run the combine header close to the gourd and pick up more beans at harvest. I think it also stimulates the newly emerged beans. Big, rollers are all the rage in some areas.
 

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
Been doing some more research.....and I find the termination of cereals (like my Rye) to be of considerable interest. It's important to time the termination in order to get the optimum mulch for my crops, and to prevent weeds, to preserve moisture and more. I think this paper may have most of the data on "when" to terminate the rye. Figure I should share.



EDIT: It appears that Penn State, Iowa University, and University of Wisconsin have the most trusted data on this topic. Some of this is relatively new.....so it pays to stay tuned to these studies. We are all learning.

OK.....not to beat a horse to death....but there is one more paper worth reading. (this stuff is hard to understand if you are not a farmer....grin).

 
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Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
B&B ... In post 1 I put in a link to a guide that discusses seed type, purpose, planting dates, etc.
Thanks, Spud. Much appreciated.
 
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