Cover Crops ... Food & Soil Improvement

[Bowsnbucks]

If I may, I'd like to ask how this cover-cropping, soil-building strategy applies to those of us who aren't farmers with roller-crimpers, and who don't rotate into cash crops following a winter cover crop - whatever crop / seed mix that may be. Many of these soil-building videos are done by commercial farmers FOR commercial farmers. I understand why they apply these methods.

I also understand WHY cover-cropping / soil-building is good for hunters / food-plotters. It's about soil health. But in practical terms for hunting camps in non-ag areas, people like us need a CHART of crop varieties to plant, DATES / TIMES to plant them, best ways to TERMINATE the cover crops (for $$ efficiency), what crops to follow up with after terminating the fall / winter cover crop to establish another good food plot for deer, and what food plot crops can be seeded into what for good establishment / longevity.

You guys who are farmers already understand much of this info. Those of us not raised on farms are NEWER to this info. We don't have grain drills & some of the other equipment you gents have. We use broadcast spreaders by hand or on a 4-wheeler. Timing is a big question for us as to terminating a cover crop - or an older food plot that's run its course.

We have planted mixed clover plots with rye or oat nurse crops around Labor Day for fall & winter food and establishing a multi-year clover plot going forward. We also plant a mix of brassicas in late July (which also has some red clover in it). If we were to plant something following rye, winter wheat, or oats - WHEN should we terminate the grains? ( I saw the video of rye being rolled AFTER it makes pollen tubes). What about oats & wheat? Should the follow-up crop be seeded FIRST - then rolled or sprayed - in order to get more seed down to the soil, or seed AFTER rolling the rye, oats, or wheat down?

For soil building & cost efficiency - could we establish a mixed-variety plot and just scratch the soil with a disc each fall & overseed new crops into the established mixed plot? (Say, turnips, radishes, red clover, rye, oats, chicory for a mixed variety plot). With rye in that mixed plot, what should we do with it the following spring??? Could a mixed plot be kept going for 5 to 7 years just by scratching with a disc and overseeding each fall???

OPEN to any & all suggestions.

 

[Foggy47]

If I may, I'd like to ask how this cover-cropping, soil-building strategy applies to those of us who aren't farmers with roller-crimpers, and who don't rotate into cash crops following a winter cover crop - whatever crop / seed mix that may be. Many of these soil-building videos are done by commercial farmers FOR commercial farmers. I understand why they apply these methods.

I also understand WHY cover-cropping / soil-building is good for hunters / food-plotters. It's about soil health. But in practical terms for hunting camps in non-ag areas, people like us need a CHART of crop varieties to plant, DATES / TIMES to plant them, best ways to TERMINATE the cover crops (for $$ efficiency), what crops to follow up with after terminating the fall / winter cover crop to establish another good food plot for deer, and what food plot crops can be seeded into what for good establishment / longevity.

You guys who are farmers already understand much of this info. Those of us not raised on farms are NEWER to this info. We don't have grain drills & some of the other equipment you gents have. We use broadcast spreaders by hand or on a 4-wheeler. Timing is a big question for us as to terminating a cover crop - or an older food plot that's run its course.

We have planted mixed clover plots with rye or oat nurse crops around Labor Day for fall & winter food and establishing a multi-year clover plot going forward. We also plant a mix of brassicas in late July (which also has some red clover in it). If we were to plant something following rye, winter wheat, or oats - WHEN should we terminate the grains? ( I saw the video of rye being rolled AFTER it makes pollen tubes). What about oats & wheat? Should the follow-up crop be seeded FIRST - then rolled or sprayed - in order to get more seed down to the soil, or seed AFTER rolling the rye, oats, or wheat down?

For soil building & cost efficiency - could we establish a mixed-variety plot and just scratch the soil with a disc each fall & overseed new crops into the established mixed plot? (Say, turnips, radishes, red clover, rye, oats, chicory for a mixed variety plot). With rye in that mixed plot, what should we do with it the following spring??? Could a mixed plot be kept going for 5 to 7 years just by scratching with a disc and overseeding each fall???

OPEN to any & all suggestions.

good topic here. Early-on I was a tillage guy and got along pretty well with the old ways of doing things....untill pigweed was spoiling my efforts. It was also too much work with all the passes over my now 10 acres of plots.

I invested into a moderate cost No Till Drill and a roller crimper.....and have found what I think is a good plan for me with a early June planting of a summer release mix followed with a roller crimping to terminate my fall planted rye (and let my clover from the fall live) .....then in late august / early September planting my brassica blend and winter rye again. Subject to some changes but a basic plan for my machines. In some areas and on some occasions I will use whatever herbicides are required. Same goes for fertilizers...as is affordable at times.

If I had a just a broadcast spreader and a cultipacker ......I would devise a way to mount that spreader about 6 or 8 feet high (a tall receiver hitch?) and broadcast a few warm season seeds into standing rye and cultipack that and possibly spray to terminate the rye. Then in fall again broadcast the seeds and culitpack again. On my land, I dont get by without some mowing or packing those broadcast seeds......so possibly a gentle disk to stimulate the top soil a bit.

Everyone has different needs and different equipment.....so I suppose each of us is left to our own device to get 'er done with what we got.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Foggy47 -
Thanks for the response. We also have a cultipacker. Our equipment is as follows - a 3-bottom plow, a set of discs about 6 ft. wide, a cultipacker about 6 ft. wide, a spring-tooth harrow, and a PTO-driven rotary mower deck to pull behind our 55 hp. JD tractor. And 4-wheelers.

We don't moldboard plow very often - mainly discing to scratch the soil or break up the surface crust. Harrow to smooth, and then cultipack before and after seeding. We'd like to avoid plowing entirely, to improve soil structure / health.

Interested to hear from as many guys as possible concerning my post #21 above.

 

[Tree Spud]

If I may, I'd like to ask how this cover-cropping, soil-building strategy applies to those of us who aren't farmers with roller-crimpers, and who don't rotate into cash crops following a winter cover crop - whatever crop / seed mix that may be. Many of these soil-building videos are done by commercial farmers FOR commercial farmers. I understand why they apply these methods.

I also understand WHY cover-cropping / soil-building is good for hunters / food-plotters. It's about soil health. But in practical terms for hunting camps in non-ag areas, people like us need a CHART of crop varieties to plant, DATES / TIMES to plant them, best ways to TERMINATE the cover crops (for $$ efficiency), what crops to follow up with after terminating the fall / winter cover crop to establish another good food plot for deer, and what food plot crops can be seeded into what for good establishment / longevity.

You guys who are farmers already understand much of this info. Those of us not raised on farms are NEWER to this info. We don't have grain drills & some of the other equipment you gents have. We use broadcast spreaders by hand or on a 4-wheeler. Timing is a big question for us as to terminating a cover crop - or an older food plot that's run its course.

We have planted mixed clover plots with rye or oat nurse crops around Labor Day for fall & winter food and establishing a multi-year clover plot going forward. We also plant a mix of brassicas in late July (which also has some red clover in it). If we were to plant something following rye, winter wheat, or oats - WHEN should we terminate the grains? ( I saw the video of rye being rolled AFTER it makes pollen tubes). What about oats & wheat? Should the follow-up crop be seeded FIRST - then rolled or sprayed - in order to get more seed down to the soil, or seed AFTER rolling the rye, oats, or wheat down?

For soil building & cost efficiency - could we establish a mixed-variety plot and just scratch the soil with a disc each fall & overseed new crops into the established mixed plot? (Say, turnips, radishes, red clover, rye, oats, chicory for a mixed variety plot). With rye in that mixed plot, what should we do with it the following spring??? Could a mixed plot be kept going for 5 to 7 years just by scratching with a disc and overseeding each fall???

OPEN to any & all suggestions.

B&B ... In post 1 I put in a link to a guide that discusses seed type, purpose, planting dates, etc.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If I may, I'd like to ask how this cover-cropping, soil-building strategy applies to those of us who aren't farmers with roller-crimpers, and who don't rotate into cash crops following a winter cover crop - whatever crop / seed mix that may be. Many of these soil-building videos are done by commercial farmers FOR commercial farmers. I understand why they apply these methods.

I also understand WHY cover-cropping / soil-building is good for hunters / food-plotters. It's about soil health. But in practical terms for hunting camps in non-ag areas, people like us need a CHART of crop varieties to plant, DATES / TIMES to plant them, best ways to TERMINATE the cover crops (for $$ efficiency), what crops to follow up with after terminating the fall / winter cover crop to establish another good food plot for deer, and what food plot crops can be seeded into what for good establishment / longevity.

You guys who are farmers already understand much of this info. Those of us not raised on farms are NEWER to this info. We don't have grain drills & some of the other equipment you gents have. We use broadcast spreaders by hand or on a 4-wheeler. Timing is a big question for us as to terminating a cover crop - or an older food plot that's run its course.

We have planted mixed clover plots with rye or oat nurse crops around Labor Day for fall & winter food and establishing a multi-year clover plot going forward. We also plant a mix of brassicas in late July (which also has some red clover in it). If we were to plant something following rye, winter wheat, or oats - WHEN should we terminate the grains? ( I saw the video of rye being rolled AFTER it makes pollen tubes). What about oats & wheat? Should the follow-up crop be seeded FIRST - then rolled or sprayed - in order to get more seed down to the soil, or seed AFTER rolling the rye, oats, or wheat down?

For soil building & cost efficiency - could we establish a mixed-variety plot and just scratch the soil with a disc each fall & overseed new crops into the established mixed plot? (Say, turnips, radishes, red clover, rye, oats, chicory for a mixed variety plot). With rye in that mixed plot, what should we do with it the following spring??? Could a mixed plot be kept going for 5 to 7 years just by scratching with a disc and overseeding each fall???

OPEN to any & all suggestions.

I'm a newby, a few years of helping parents on food plots and one fall of spray/throw/roll into fallow hay on my own parcel. I was a little frustrated at first that there wasn't just an obvious easy dumbed down approach because of all the options. Spent many hours reading and my takeaway based on the limited experience and lots of reading is that the lick creek rotation seems like a real good place to start. My current thoughts:

For the upper midwest, a basic clover/rye mix seems to be a great foundation to build off of. I'm gravitating towards no matter what, the majority of my plots will get rye and clover broadcasted in the fall which will provide some fall attraction, solid spring nutrition and weed suppression, and some nitrogen fixing for the following fall's planting. From that base, add additional fall plantings that may be a better hunting season draw like peas, oats, turnip/radish/brassicas prior to broadcasting the rye/clover so they get a head start in the competition with rye for building tonnage. So basically the tried and true lick creek rotation with emphasis on broadcasted rye/clover and some additional tweaks.

The part i get into analysis paralysis is which damn clovers to use in fall, which should be frost seeded in spring, etc.

 

[Tree Spud]

I'm a newby, a few years of helping parents on food plots and one fall of spray/throw/roll into fallow hay on my own parcel. I was a little frustrated at first that there wasn't just an obvious easy dumbed down approach because of all the options. Spent many hours reading and my takeaway based on the limited experience and lots of reading is that the lick creek rotation seems like a real good place to start. My current thoughts:

For the upper midwest, a basic clover/rye mix seems to be a great foundation to build off of. I'm gravitating towards no matter what, the majority of my plots will get rye and clover broadcasted in the fall which will provide some fall attraction, solid spring nutrition and weed suppression, and some nitrogen fixing for the following fall's planting. From that base, add additional fall plantings that may be a better hunting season draw like peas, oats, turnip/radish/brassicas prior to broadcasting the rye/clover so they get a head start in the competition with rye for building tonnage. So basically the tried and true lick creek rotation with emphasis on broadcasted rye/clover and some additional tweaks.

The part i get into analysis paralysis is which damn clovers to use in fall, which should be frost seeded in spring, etc.

I overseed in mid summer with Ladino white clover and medium red in the fall along with WR. This is what my plot looked like this spring. I am adding Berseem and Crimson this clover. Berseem is a perennial that i seeded this spring and Crimson is an annual I will overseed this summer. Both are strong nitrogen producers.

 

[Rit]

I overseed in mid summer with Ladino white clover and medium red in the fall along with WR. This is what my plot looked like this spring. I am adding Berseem and Crimson this clover. Berseem is a perennial that i seeded this spring and Crimson is an annual I will overseed this summer. Both are strong nitrogen producers.

View attachment 43695

Thing of beauty right there.

 

[Foggy47]

I remember seeing a video where one of the "internet food plot guru's" was standing in a cage on the front end loader with a broadcast spinner.... as his customer drove him around the field and they planted a fall crop into the standing buckwheat (IIRC).....or maybe it was Rye?.....but could be used anywhere over standing crops to broadcast seeds....or top dress fertilizer?

I got this plate in the picture below for a couple of reasons. 1. To attach my landscape rake at the front of my loader to "doze" the remains of some log landing sites. Also to grade my driveway and to plow snow. 2. To attach my Goliath 6' roller crimper. 3. To use the receiver to move trailers. 4. To attach my Herd 12 volt seeder. I use the same wiring harness for my Herd Seeder as my Fimco Sprayer....and both have an on/off switch and are plug and play. The Herd Spreader also has two ropes to allow the seed gate operations.

I thought this may provide some ideas for broadcasting seed or fertilizer into standing crops. The plate is made by Titan. Sorry.....not the best pic quality.

 

[Tree Spud]

Thing of beauty right there.

Thanks! Every now and then the stars and planets align and something works out the way you planned

In all seriousness, I think many folks overthink food plots. I am not a farmer, only at my place on weekends, and mother nature always seems to have a plan different plan than mine. After years of trial and many errors ... the KISS principle works well. The plot i showed above is the basic core plantings, and very reliable plantings every year. You can then build from there and till in grains/legumes or over seed brassicas, turnips, etc.

 

[yoderjac]

If I may, I'd like to ask how this cover-cropping, soil-building strategy applies to those of us who aren't farmers with roller-crimpers, and who don't rotate into cash crops following a winter cover crop - whatever crop / seed mix that may be. Many of these soil-building videos are done by commercial farmers FOR commercial farmers. I understand why they apply these methods.

I also understand WHY cover-cropping / soil-building is good for hunters / food-plotters. It's about soil health. But in practical terms for hunting camps in non-ag areas, people like us need a CHART of crop varieties to plant, DATES / TIMES to plant them, best ways to TERMINATE the cover crops (for $$ efficiency), what crops to follow up with after terminating the fall / winter cover crop to establish another good food plot for deer, and what food plot crops can be seeded into what for good establishment / longevity.

You guys who are farmers already understand much of this info. Those of us not raised on farms are NEWER to this info. We don't have grain drills & some of the other equipment you gents have. We use broadcast spreaders by hand or on a 4-wheeler. Timing is a big question for us as to terminating a cover crop - or an older food plot that's run its course.

We have planted mixed clover plots with rye or oat nurse crops around Labor Day for fall & winter food and establishing a multi-year clover plot going forward. We also plant a mix of brassicas in late July (which also has some red clover in it). If we were to plant something following rye, winter wheat, or oats - WHEN should we terminate the grains? ( I saw the video of rye being rolled AFTER it makes pollen tubes). What about oats & wheat? Should the follow-up crop be seeded FIRST - then rolled or sprayed - in order to get more seed down to the soil, or seed AFTER rolling the rye, oats, or wheat down?

For soil building & cost efficiency - could we establish a mixed-variety plot and just scratch the soil with a disc each fall & overseed new crops into the established mixed plot? (Say, turnips, radishes, red clover, rye, oats, chicory for a mixed variety plot). With rye in that mixed plot, what should we do with it the following spring??? Could a mixed plot be kept going for 5 to 7 years just by scratching with a disc and overseeding each fall???

OPEN to any & all suggestions.

For me, the biggest benefit has be savings both in money and time. The details of what and when to plant will vary with location somewhat. Check out my post on your thread asking about "multi-year" plots.

I left off my previous post on this thread talking about achieving objectives. I think that comes first, even before cover crops and soil health. I think those approaches can be used to achieve different goals.

There are no absolutes, but in general, I'd say there are two major objectives for deer properties. Most folks fall in to one or the other or some mix of the two.

1) QDM - I see QDM as primarily focused on improving and maintaining the overall health of the local deer herd in some measurable way. Typical metrics for this are antler size and body weight. In order for this to be a realistic objective you need scale. If deer are leaving your property for any significant time period, you can't influence their health or age (before being harvested) sufficiently. When I say "your property" I mean property you own or have significant influence over (cooperating neighbors). A good rule of thumb for the home range is 1,000 acres. Some deer, especially does, will have smaller ranges and some will have larger depending on habitat quality, but 1,000 is a reasonable ballpark.

2) Huntability - Making your land more huntable. With this objective we are not as concerned with the deer herd health, but how they relate to the environment. Basically, we want them to be using our land during the hunting season and we want to maximizing our chance of harvest. Like QDM, this is much broader than food plots and includes habitat management in general.

Food plots are tools that can be used for each of these objectives but how they are applied is different. For QDM purposes, food plots require significant acreage and need to be focused at specific stress periods. It matters not if a deer is eating your planted quality food or a quality native food. The key is targeting times so your crop is available during periods when quality native foods are less available. For huntability, plot location and security are larger drivers than the crop itself. For this objective the idea is to plant crops that attract deer during specific periods (hunting season). You may or may not actually hunt the plots, but they are influencing deer movement for you.

There is a bit overlap between the crops we choose for each of these applications and they vary based on location.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[omicron1792]

This came in today.

 

[yoderjac]

View attachment 43738This came in today.

Sweet!

 

[Tree Spud]

View attachment 43738This came in today.

By putting the crimper on the front of your tractor, this changes the angle and geometry of the blades impacting the plants. How does this affect the effectiveness of crimping and breaking the stalk to terminate?

 

[Mortenson]

That's good thinking. I bag spread 1.5 acres this week in 6' tall rye. Left arm got pretty sore!

 

[omicron1792]

By putting the crimper on the front of your tractor, this changes the angle and geometry of the blades impacting the plants. How does this affect the effectiveness of crimping and breaking the stalk to terminate?

I talked to Goliath folks. I had the blades turned around so the pushing has same geometry as the pulling.

Seems like a lot of the big ag folks push with crimper and plant on the back so they can do in single pass.

We will see if it works!

 

[omicron1792]

It was also an absolute bear to get from the delivery guy. Had 3pt facing down pinned to a metal pallet. And that thing is heavy!

 

[Foggy47]

I talked to Goliath folks. I had the blades turned around so the pushing has same geometry as the pulling.

Seems like a lot of the big ag folks push with crimper and plant on the back so they can do in single pass.

We will see if it works!

It's just a matter of removing the bolts from each end and rotating the drum 180 degrees to change from the back to the front. I talked to one guy that had his front mounted (without flipping it around) and he seemed to get along with it that way too. Tho I wonder about bending those blades if you would not flip it around ?

 

[omicron1792]

It's just a matter of removing the bolts from each end and rotating the drum 180 degrees to change from the back to the front. I talked to one guy that had his front mounted (without flipping it around) and he seemed to get along with it that way too. Tho I wonder about bending those blades if you would not flip it around ?

Was my thought too. That chevron pattern seems to be the key, so I wanted to do it the right way.

They flipped for me before they shipped it.

 

[Tree Spud]

I talked to Goliath folks. I had the blades turned around so the pushing has same geometry as the pulling.

Seems like a lot of the big ag folks push with crimper and plant on the back so they can do in single pass.

We will see if it works!

Good idea, looking forward to feedback on how it works.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

View attachment 43738This came in today.

Looks great, what tractor do you have?