At this point I'm not sure what I'm planting. I've been so busy with my "honey-do" list that I haven't had time to think that through in detail but most likely I will try turnips again. I haven't had a successful crop in this plot since the first year that I had the field put in/logged out (when the deer didn't know it was there). That year I had turnips the size of softballs. I will probably mix in some brassica and radish. I'm hoping that I can have the field laying "dead" for a month to get the deer into another feeding pattern as my plotsaver fencing didn't work last year. So I need to "encourage them" to eat elsewhere while I'm growing - LOL!
 
At this point I'm not sure what I'm planting. I've been so busy with my "honey-do" list that I haven't had time to think that through in detail but most likely I will try turnips again. I haven't had a successful crop in this plot since the first year that I had the field put in/logged out (when the deer didn't know it was there). That year I had turnips the size of softballs. I will probably mix in some brassica and radish. I'm hoping that I can have the field laying "dead" for a month to get the deer into another feeding pattern as my plotsaver fencing didn't work last year. So I need to "encourage them" to eat elsewhere while I'm growing - LOL!

Products like plot saver are mild deterrents. I haven't found anything other than a Gallagher-style e-fence that is a significant deterrent and the cost is pretty high on that for large areas. It is a reasonable solution for smaller plots but still not cheap. Deer feeding patterns change constantly as both native foods and planted food move through different stages of development. One key is matching your crop to your situation. In high deer density areas, unless you have lots of acreage, it is very hard to out-plant deer. Most plants are the most attractive when young and supple during establishment.

In areas with high deer densities, you don't need attraction. Deer will be attracted to whatever you plant when native foods become less available. When acorns fall, I've found nothing that will pull deer away. For smaller plots in high deer density areas, consider simple WR/clover. You can use an annual clover like Crimson if you want to plant each fall. A legume and cereal like WR work well together and are about as browse tolerant as you can get. If you don't want to replant each fall, use the WR as a nurse crop for a low growing perennial clover like Durana. Once established, simply mowing just before the season will give you a good plot for the season.

Your only other option is a stronger deterrent like a Gallagher E-fence, but that takes time and money.

Thanks,

Jack
 
So Jack - are you saying that I should have let my clover stand? There wasn't a lot of weeds this year (some) but I just don't have the ability to mow clover high enough (best I could do is a riding lawn mower and that still cuts VERY low - even on the highest setting).

As with most of us, typically I was looking for something to be there in the fall. Initially when I put this field in, I was hoping to hold deer on my property (I'm in big woods) and that just turned out to be a stupid idea. Deer in my neck of the woods tend to bed on the hilltops/edge of them and then come down at night. My property is near the bottom. So for a couple of years, I had a "doe factory". I had a great crop of Buckwheat one year and then a lush/thick Winter Wheat and Winter Rye with bedded fawns in there a lot.

The e-Fence is out. I'm too cheap. Plus this is a remote area so it could be subject to thieves.

I barely hunt over it but it's in a travel corridor that the deer use. I think in the past 5 years or so I may have hunted over this a dozen times. I had the field put after some logging and the main axis going east-west. This makes for VERY tough hunting based on our common winds being from the SW or NW. I figured out last year that the best option is south winds or winds below 4 mph (which has thermals take over bringing the winds back to flowing from the S to the N).

Anyway - I've finally got a good layer of organic matter that's allowing things to grow. The clover could have been stuff I planted because it was so thick. Then again, it could have just been native. Regardless it was nice and thick. Places that have been traditionally bare are now able to grow plants so T&M is working well for me. Past attempts at Brassica, Turnips, Diakon Radish, or anything else just seem to get obliterated. I had a diakon radish take hold inside on of my tree cages and I would not believe how big it was! So I am fighting some daily/nightly browsing on a field about 1.5 acres. Right now there doesn't seem to be high traffic but once I get things planted I get pictures with a dozen deer.
 
So Jack - are you saying that I should have let my clover stand? There wasn't a lot of weeds this year (some) but I just don't have the ability to mow clover high enough (best I could do is a riding lawn mower and that still cuts VERY low - even on the highest setting).

As with most of us, typically I was looking for something to be there in the fall. Initially when I put this field in, I was hoping to hold deer on my property (I'm in big woods) and that just turned out to be a stupid idea. Deer in my neck of the woods tend to bed on the hilltops/edge of them and then come down at night. My property is near the bottom. So for a couple of years, I had a "doe factory". I had a great crop of Buckwheat one year and then a lush/thick Winter Wheat and Winter Rye with bedded fawns in there a lot.

The e-Fence is out. I'm too cheap. Plus this is a remote area so it could be subject to thieves.

I barely hunt over it but it's in a travel corridor that the deer use. I think in the past 5 years or so I may have hunted over this a dozen times. I had the field put after some logging and the main axis going east-west. This makes for VERY tough hunting based on our common winds being from the SW or NW. I figured out last year that the best option is south winds or winds below 4 mph (which has thermals take over bringing the winds back to flowing from the S to the N).

Anyway - I've finally got a good layer of organic matter that's allowing things to grow. The clover could have been stuff I planted because it was so thick. Then again, it could have just been native. Regardless it was nice and thick. Places that have been traditionally bare are now able to grow plants so T&M is working well for me. Past attempts at Brassica, Turnips, Diakon Radish, or anything else just seem to get obliterated. I had a diakon radish take hold inside on of my tree cages and I would not believe how big it was! So I am fighting some daily/nightly browsing on a field about 1.5 acres. Right now there doesn't seem to be high traffic but once I get things planted I get pictures with a dozen deer.

I not saying what you "should" do. I don't know all the details of your situation. I'm saying that in general, if you are having a hard time establishing something, consider crops that have less attraction and more browse tolerance. In a big woods situation, a perennial clover plot has plenty of attraction and more browse tolerance than brassica.

For example, when we first bought our property, it was a food desert for deer. The locals shot anything with antlers, so the average buck age was very low. There were lots of does as the general regulations in the area had a limited number of antlerless days. The pine farm we bought had some older pines that had nothing growing in the understory and some young pines that were just beginning to canopy. So, half the property has near zero food and the other half was transitioning from the abundance of a clear-cut to the slim pickings of a canopying pine thicket.

Deer would wipe out any summer foods we planted. I got clover established on a pipeline that bisected the farm. The terrain was rolling so planted the flatter tops. I had fields of about an acre each that were 60 to 80 yards wide. Deer numbers were so high that when I would mow the clover, deer would be feeding in one end of the field when I was mowing the other and they would temporarily move into the pines as I would loop around and get closer. By the time I was back to the other end, they were feeding again.

We got into a program that allowed for heavy doe harvest and we eventually got things balanced. Now, it doesn't sound like you are trying to manage on the same scale we are, but I use this as an example. I've found nothing that will pull deer off acorns. When acorns are not abundant, anything I planted when we started was plenty attractive. The key was finding things that could handle the browse pressure and continue to grow.

It might be worth considering a tow behind mower like a Swisher. I think I saw someone on the forum selling one today. He might be able to advise you on how they work and if you can set them to 6" to 8" high. They have their own engine. You just use your lawn tractor or ATV to tow them. You might be able to pick up something like that used for mowing. Just a thought. If I had good perennial clover in the field I would certainly keep it. It is harder to kill any plant by browsing, especially perennial clover, once it is well established.

The reason I mow clover in the fall just before the season is to give it a little boost as nature is favoring cool season over warm season plants. I'm just mowing weeds to get some more sun into the clover. The cool evenings and rain do the most. I don't mow for deer. They use my plots that are weedy even more than mowed plots. They like the vertical cover of weeds.

If your only option is the riding mower, here is a thought to consider. Wait until conditions are very favorable to clover and then mow. Make sure you have a good rain on the horizon. Make sure there are no other stressors on the clover. The reason we typically mow clover high is that is stresses the clover less. It is typically when the clover gets multiple stressors that it gets hurt. Lets say someone sprays his clover field with Cleth and uses Crop Oil. The crop oil will put a little stress on the clover. Then say they mow it low. This puts another stress on the clover. Then they get 3 weeks with no rain. Put those all together and the clover will struggle. Clover handles a single stressor pretty well.

One technique I've tried was to mow a clover field flat with a bushhog. The bushhog was almost scalping the ground. I then drilled radish into the field with a no-till drill. I did this at the right time with rain in the forecast. I just posted a picture on anther thread today asking about clover. Half of that field was suppressed by spraying with 1 qt/acre gly and the other was suppressed by mowing flat. You can't tell any difference in the pic between the sides. The side mowed got more weeds the next summer than the side I sprayed, but both methods worked. I only say this to give you confidence in mowing low if that is all you have to work with. Just be sure you have rain coming soon and plentiful.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Thanks Jack. That helps. I definitely didn't go as heavy as a qt/acre with the gly. So maybe all I will have done is kill off some weeds. The clover was really nice and thick. Don't get me wrong, there were spots where the weeds outgrew the clover (bottom left in the photo of my field) and there were some areas that were thinner. Based on what you've said, it's got me thinking that maybe I should just focus on getting those areas cleaned up some (I know weeds can be good). So I could go in and put down some Winter Wheat or Winter Rye in the thin spots that will turn into OM for next year. Then I could also hand cut those weedy sections down with a weed wacker (I'm still much smaller scale) and try to get some clover seed on those this year in hopes it takes up as well as the rest did by next year.

I guess I just don't see enough guys with clover fields - everyone wants radish, turnips, brassica and so on. Maybe I'm not looking/listening for it either. I'll lookup your other post.
 
Thanks Jack. That helps. I definitely didn't go as heavy as a qt/acre with the gly. So maybe all I will have done is kill off some weeds. The clover was really nice and thick. Don't get me wrong, there were spots where the weeds outgrew the clover (bottom left in the photo of my field) and there were some areas that were thinner. Based on what you've said, it's got me thinking that maybe I should just focus on getting those areas cleaned up some (I know weeds can be good). So I could go in and put down some Winter Wheat or Winter Rye in the thin spots that will turn into OM for next year. Then I could also hand cut those weedy sections down with a weed wacker (I'm still much smaller scale) and try to get some clover seed on those this year in hopes it takes up as well as the rest did by next year.

I guess I just don't see enough guys with clover fields - everyone wants radish, turnips, brassica and so on. Maybe I'm not looking/listening for it either. I'll lookup your other post.

One more thing to consider is weed tolerance. I just posted something similar on the clover variety thread, but I add it here as well. Your field is very clean and looks almost like a farm field to my eyes. We tend to get our vision of success from farm fields, but that is not true for deer managers or food plotters. For a farmer, a "weed" is anything growing in his field that he did not plant and will not harvest and sell or in some other way contribute to his profit. It is taking resources from his cash crop. Plants that are "weeds" to a farmer are often more beneficial to deer than the crops we are planting for deer. That is not to say there are no weeds for food plotters. For us, weeds are plants that are taking away from our objectives. Plants that are neutral or contribution to our objectives are not a problem. Farmers live for yield. For them yield is what they harvest per acre. For folks doing QDM, yield is only the plants that end up in the belly of a deer that replace a lower quality food that I a deer would have eaten had we not planted. For folk with smaller properties just trying to improve hunting, yield is deer they have the option to harvest that they otherwise would not have. So, in big woods, if you know bedding and create sufficiently attractive food, and hunt between bedding and food and increase harvest opportunity, you've succeeded. This is regardless of what the field looks like or has growing in it.

I think you are in the latter group. Weeds in your clover are only a problem when deer stop using your field as a regular food source during the season. So, if you had some outbreak of Pigweed, Marestail, Japanese Stiltgrass, or something problematic, I'd say deal with the problematic weed. Otherwise, I'd look at most broadleaf weeds as just adding variety of deer food to your clover.

Thanks,

Jack
 
So I finally figured out my seed for this year and have it in my truck. I'll get it down in mid-August just to try and get a jump on it ahead of any frost. That should give me about 2 months prior to a frost:

  • Winter Wheat & Oats
  • Brassica - I mean of course
  • Kale - Going to try this

Going to try and see if I can also get this things going and maybe have it be less work as time goes on by adding to my existing/established clover:
  • Crimson Clover and some other perennial clovers
  • Chicory - looking to add to that perennial food source and see how the field looks next year.
I'll try and time this planting prior to a rain but I currently have vacation time scheduled 8/10 through 8/14. Right now my field has a plenty of dead matter from my "spraying adventure" in the places that I sprayed it. When I plant I will also put down some pelletized lime and some fertilizer like 10-10-10, followed by a rain dance ;)
 
So I finally figured out my seed for this year and have it in my truck. I'll get it down in mid-August just to try and get a jump on it ahead of any frost. That should give me about 2 months prior to a frost:

  • Winter Wheat & Oats
  • Brassica - I mean of course
  • Kale - Going to try this

Going to try and see if I can also get this things going and maybe have it be less work as time goes on by adding to my existing/established clover:
  • Crimson Clover and some other perennial clovers
  • Chicory - looking to add to that perennial food source and see how the field looks next year.
I'll try and time this planting prior to a rain but I currently have vacation time scheduled 8/10 through 8/14. Right now my field has a plenty of dead matter from my "spraying adventure" in the places that I sprayed it. When I plant I will also put down some pelletized lime and some fertilizer like 10-10-10, followed by a rain dance ;)

do you not have trouble with army worms in August planted wheat or oats?
 
do you not have trouble with army worms in August planted wheat or oats?
I haven't had any problems with them - I hope that continues.

If I were to guess why, I would say that is based on the location of my field and my property. It is literally the only field for miles; there aren't crops and such things to bring them in with an abundance. With my field, I get plenty of birds based on it being the only field and the recent logging that I had done and that has been done on the adjacent leases. it was surprising the number of new bird species that I've seen (Rose-Breasted Grosebeaks, Indigo Buntings, Orioles, Robins, along with all of your normal birds).
 
TNM screen plot planted last weekend. Right under a 1/2 acre. Heavy rain that night was welcomed

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Did you buy that from ol' Johnny Wengerd up at merit? Good guy.
 
Did you buy that from ol' Johnny Wengerd up at merit? Good guy.
Yes sir, been buying seed from John for many years
 
im playing w a 2 acre spot that has a wild raspberry bush in the middle of it that i sprayed around last week. there is 0 rain for the next 10 days so im in a holding pattern but the plan is to spread buckwheat on the whole 2 acres then mid late August take half of it down w gly and put in a brassica and let the rest stand and dye (money reasons mostly) but i would like to put crimison clover down to come up in the spring. so my questions are how does this plan sound and at what time of year should the clover be going on the ground?
 
im playing w a 2 acre spot that has a wild raspberry bush in the middle of it that i sprayed around last week. there is 0 rain for the next 10 days so im in a holding pattern but the plan is to spread buckwheat on the whole 2 acres then mid late August take half of it down w gly and put in a brassica and let the rest stand and dye (money reasons mostly) but i would like to put crimison clover down to come up in the spring. so my questions are how does this plan sound and at what time of year should the clover be going on the ground?
Instead of letting the other half stand and die off, you could overseed with cereal rye and clover around labor day. Brassica and my cereal plots are always side by side for easy rotation. Winter rye is fairly cheap and requires zero tillage as long as you get good seed 2 soil contact. Just a thought... Good luck!
 
Instead of letting the other half stand and die off, you could overseed with cereal rye and clover around labor day. Brassica and my cereal plots are always side by side for easy rotation. Winter rye is fairly cheap and requires zero tillage as long as you get good seed 2 soil contact. Just a thought... Good luck!
might be worth a go i didnt realize how cheap a bag of winter rye was. i already have the brassica so might make a call and get some rye for this year and plan on the clover next year
 
I'd probably just mow that buckwheat when it's brassica time. Unless you're spraying gly for something else.
 
I'd probably just mow that buckwheat when it's brassica time. Unless you're spraying gly for something else.
Don't have a mower, I'm going to have to borrow a lawn roller or jimmy one from a board and bricks. Hope to have one next year.

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Buckwheat lays down easy with almost no pressure. Just atv tires will do the job - for what it's worth.

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Buckwheat lays down easy with almost no pressure. Just atv tires will do the job - for what it's worth.

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Thanks, I'll take any tips on this stuff, as I have 0 experience with it.

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In some kinds of soil, you don't even need to cultipack buckwheat. You can just surface broadcast it. I found that with my heavy clay soil, if I just surface broadcast, my germination rates go down significantly. Rates between till and cover verses just surface broadcast and cultipack are about the same for me.
 
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