terminated white clover with Amine 400 2 4 D in preparation to broadcast brassicas in a few weeks (no till)

[Vikingman1981]

So I've recently been following the no till threads and have spoke with a few guys here about it. I have a beautiful stand about 1/2 acre of white clover I planted late last August in SWPA. I planted Turnips at the same time and they grew beautifully last fall and the deer hammered them. I planted the clover at the same time and the turnips dominated as planned. I frost seeded more white clover late winter. I've mowed and applied cleth twice and have a great stand of clover now. I just applied some amine 2 4 D just yesterday. There was a small rain event not long after so I'm hoping it takes...if it does my question is do you think I'll be ok broadcasting the brassicas mid august about a month from now? Also should I just broadcast then mow the dead vegetation and call it a day?

 

[FarmerDan]

If you used a labelled rate of 2,4-d seeding brassicas a month from now should leave you in a positive position. Throw and mow is a legitimate option for you. Of course the whole objective of seeding is to get the seed into a position where it can absorb enough moisture to start germination and then, when it does germinate, to keep that initial, single root moist until the root system expands enough to continue growth into soil where the odds of finding enough moisture to continue are good.

It doesn't work with all seeds and the condition of the climate at the time of seeding is critical. Brassica seeds, I think, are ideal for seeding and then mowing because the seeds are small enough and dense enough to fall deep into the mowed debris maybe even making soil contact. And the seed coat is hard enough to give good moisture absorption and retention a chance.

 

[Vikingman1981]

If you used a labelled rate of 2,4-d seeding brassicas a month from now should leave you in a positive position. Throw and mow is a legitimate option for you. Of course the whole objective of seeding is to get the seed into a position where it can absorb enough moisture to start germination and then, when it does germinate, to keep that initial, single root moist until the root system expands enough to continue growth into soil where the odds of finding enough moisture to continue are good.

It doesn't work with all seeds and the condition of the climate at the time of seeding is critical. Brassica seeds, I think, are ideal for seeding and then mowing because the seeds are small enough and dense enough to fall deep into the mowed debris maybe even making soil contact. And the seed coat is hard enough to give good moisture absorption and retention a chance.

thanks bud that's what I'm hoping for! I'll keep this thread posted and if anyone else wants to chime in of course that's always appreciated

 

[Vikingman1981]

So I sprayed gly and 24 d like I said on July 14th. If I had more time, I should have mowed and then nuked the plot a few days later. The weeds and clover were pretty high...I broadcasted 3lbs of turnips and 4 lbs of red and white clover into the the sort of dead vegetation then mowed it real short. After mowing it didn't appear I had gotten a real good kill on everything. There was one large brown spot and the rest looked mostly green. I did spray more gly after all that. Hoping to set back the already set back and scalped clover so I get some turnips to grow. Don't really have any questions just posting up with real time results. I'll update in a few weeks. Very hopeful to get a good bit of turnips to grow and what I have read is that since it appears I didn't terminate the clover successfully it will come back strong. I wouldn't mind clover and turnips I was just hopeful for mostly turnips with clover coming in next spring...we will see.

 

[bigboreblr]

Sounds good. Clover is tough to kill. But a good shot of 2,4D and gly will kill most of it. What was your mixing amounts? How big was the tank. How much was left in the tank? LEarning what your sprayer does in gallons / per acre is very important.

I have a 15 gal 1.1 gpm pump sprayer with (2) 130 deg grey color spray nozzles. No throttling, just full pump flow. I drive at 5 mph and put the next tire track about the same distance as between the tires. So the plot look like consistent tire mark distances. Nozzles are pointing back at each corner of the rear rack.

This year has been hard to spray. Pretty much didnt spray my trees for july for bugs. Usually spray 2x gly around tree bases too. Today might be my chance.

What kinds of white clover? Dutch white is aggressive. Which I used to like because of that. Used to be the guy who grew cereals, brassicas, peas, and clover one fall. Then let it be clover for 2 years, then retill back to cereal mix. Going away from dutch white and towards ladino could be a better choice. Think dutch white is good for pastures so it can compete well with grasses.

Keep an eye out for a place to get oats or winter rye incase the brassicas aren't doing so well.

 

[Vikingman1981]

Sounds good. Clover is tough to kill. But a good shot of 2,4D and gly will kill most of it. What was your mixing amounts? How big was the tank. How much was left in the tank? LEarning what your sprayer does in gallons / per acre is very important.

I have a 15 gal 1.1 gpm pump sprayer with (2) 130 deg grey color spray nozzles. No throttling, just full pump flow. I drive at 5 mph and put the next tire track about the same distance as between the tires. So the plot look like consistent tire mark distances. Nozzles are pointing back at each corner of the rear rack.

This year has been hard to spray. Pretty much didnt spray my trees for july for bugs. Usually spray 2x gly around tree bases too. Today might be my chance.

What kinds of white clover? Dutch white is aggressive. Which I used to like because of that. Used to be the guy who grew cereals, brassicas, peas, and clover one fall. Then let it be clover for 2 years, then retill back to cereal mix. Going away from dutch white and towards ladino could be a better choice. Think dutch white is good for pastures so it can compete well with grasses.

Keep an eye out for a place to get oats or winter rye incase the brassicas aren't doing so well.

I just have a backpack sprayer I think it holds 5 gallons. Honestly I didn't measure and never have. I know I should but I've always had success when applying gly, cleth and now 2 4 D just kind of eyeballing it..I had to fill the tank up several times to spray the entire 1/2 acre plot. Ladino White Clover is what's there. That dang clover sure is hard to kill and it kind of hurt killing or trying to kill it. It was lush and beautiful. Anyways I haven't been back to see if anything is germinating but there has been I'd say a perfect amount of rainfall since I planted! So I have that going for me haha I will definitely get down there this wknd if not sooner to check it out. Thanks for the reply. I will overseed with winter rye next month.

 

[Vikingman1981]

So since I broadcasted the seeds we had I'd say the perfect amount of rain. I went to check hoping to see lots of germination and was disappointed to say the least. There is some clover I didn't kill off and it's growing back nicely but very few brassicas growing..just a couple. There is still a good bit of dead vegetation and bare dirt. I am half thinking the residual from the 24 D is part of the problem? But there are a few brassicas growing for sure. Not sure, I waited 3 weeks till planting. IDK why else they are germinating so poorly. I'm thinking since there is still bare dirt, to get more seed down. Trouble is there is no rain in the forecast. What would you do?? Regardless I will put down some WR in September. I broadcast 3lbs of brassicas initially. I don't think they will suddenly start germinating. Don't want to overcrowd them I know that.

 

[TenPoint]

How much rain did you get? When did you plant? Throw and mow plots, ime, take longer to get going than traditional tillage.

 

[FarmerDan]

r I think it holds 5 gallons.

Honestly I didn't measure and never have.

I know I should

but I've always had success when applying gly, cleth

and now 2 4 D

just kind of eyeballing it..

I had to fill the tank up several times to spray the entire 1/2 acre plot.

What could go wrong?

 

[TenPoint]

 

[Vikingman1981]

I appreicite your sarcasm gentlemen but it's not helpful. I didn't measure rainfall but we had good rain. A few downpours, a few rainy days and some showers. I was very pleased with the amount of rain. As far as the nuking, if I applied too much or didn't wait long enough, why is there a few brassicas coming up? A good bit of the clover is green and coming back. I am going to spread another 2 lbs over the bare dirt/dead grass and hope for the best. Last resort I'll spread WR like I said.

 

[TenPoint]

With throw and mow I’ve found you need a good inch to really get it going. W/o knowing what you got it’s tough to say. Other than I said before, be patient. How long has it been since planting? It takes time.

 

[Vikingman1981]

oh we definately got an inch of rain the week after I planted. I think I planted the seeds August 3rd so it's been two and a half weeks and good rain followed by lots of sunshine. I am trying and hoping to be patient. Do you suggest not broadcasting more? Give it a few more days? I know you don't want to overseed brassicas...just a handful of brassicas have germinated.

 

[TenPoint]

oh we definately got an inch of rain the week after I planted. I think I planted the seeds August 3rd so it's been two and a half weeks and good rain followed by lots of sunshine. I am trying and hoping to be patient. Do you suggest not broadcasting more? Give it a few more days? I know you don't want to overseed brassicas...just a handful of brassicas have germinated.

I planted brassicas July 29 into a tilled seedbed. 0.6" of rain that night and nothing for two weeks. They are slowly coming along. Some areas better than others. I did not spray but I think the sod I tilled up is having an allelopathic effect possibly. I over seeded before a 2" rain 16 days after planting. Saw a few small plants germinating a week later. Not quite apples to apples to your situation with the spraying but kind of the same ballpark. This is a new plot for me and not a big deal because I have several others that are established and/or doing well. So if it doesn't do well this year I'll just redo it next summer. I've had issues w/ turning over new plots in sod that first year. They do much better 2nd year.

If you do broadcast more I'd go lightly. I've only ever sprayed gly, never 2-4d or w/e you mentioned. So no experience planting after that. I've never had issues w/ just straight gly.

 

[Foggy47]

Brassica can be a slow starter. Seen that on numerous occasions. I'm in a similar boat.....but my clover and brassica are both growing now. If we could ever get a decent rain here.....I think the brassica could shade out the clover......but we dont get the rains at the right time. Heading to my land now and will look it over. Hoping for rains later in the week.

 

[Brian662]

I appreicite your sarcasm gentlemen but it's not helpful. I didn't measure rainfall but we had good rain. A few downpours, a few rainy days and some showers. I was very pleased with the amount of rain. As far as the nuking, if I applied too much or didn't wait long enough, why is there a few brassicas coming up? A good bit of the clover is green and coming back. I am going to spread another 2 lbs over the bare dirt/dead grass and hope for the best. Last resort I'll spread WR like I said.

To be honest, your methods are sloppy and you got sloppy results.
Food plots, especially throw and mow, often need everything to go right to be successful. There are way too many variables in your process for anyone here to say for certain, especially without pictures, what could have gone wrong.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that your inconsistent application of an unknown quantity of herbicide is the leading factor.

 

[Vikingman1981]

To be honest, your methods are sloppy and you got sloppy results.
Food plots, especially throw and mow, often need everything to go right to be successful. There are way too many variables in your process for anyone here to say for certain, especially without pictures, what could have gone wrong.

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that your inconsistent application of an unknown quantity of herbicide is the leading factor.

Look asshole I'm a single father who works full time. I do what I can, when I can. I don't appreciate your comments. I've had great success in making numerous foodplots. If you don't have anything nice to say just shut up how bout that!?

 

[Vikingman1981]

Thanks to everyone else. I'll keep an eye on it and be patient. If anything I put less herbicides than I should have. I didn't overuse. Perhaps I didn't state it well earlier. There are brassicas growing...just not as many as last year or I'd like.

 

[TenPoint]

 

[TenPoint]

Seriously, do you have any pics you could share?