My annual post re sowing brassicas into existing clover

[Foggy47]

^ Good post Spud. I have similar concerns. I'm trying to be a no-till guy.....and this year did not do any planting in Spring. Instead I relied on my winter Rye and clover to provide for the deer through June. Basically did nothing until nuking about 1/2 of my clover for a July brassica seeding via my drill. As said July was dry.....and while I got fair germination from some rainfall......we did not get much until the last two days. Seems my brassica is going to "make it" but it's been slow developing. Not sure what kinda bulb growth I may get this year.

One thing that stood out for me though....is that keeping roots in the ground and staying away from tillage allows at least a chance at making it through a severe drought. Anxious to see the effects of the recent rains next week.

 

[Brokenbear]

This is a question for my own benefit in that I do not know the answers fully but it may apply to your problem ...
I can understand perennial type clovers in little hidey holes and hard to get to small plots but plots that are big enough to draw and prosper a deer herd and truly generate tonnage for the deer why would one not want to plant a fall annual package of 2 or 3 annual clovers along with brassicas n forbes with a cereal heavy dose after the clovers.Brassicas/forbes are up with the cereals being the real winter spring food bank deer need ..if you do not wish to spring plant let your prior fall planting go to seed then terminate and plant again if cost is a factor and IF the carryover of the previous fall planting can keep weeds down

In my 6B zone I think I will have to terminate (this is my first year of the no till 365 green process) spring and reseed a summer of sorts or I think the weeds will own the place ..

One thought about your existing process is it cannot hurt to run a cultipacker across everything you broadcast into and is bound to improve your soil/seed contact ..of course I think also the degree of density of you clover will greatly impact the success of your broadcast brassicas ...around here it has been so dry that if you had planted brassicas 2 weeks ago 80% of it would have hit awfully barren looking ground ..with 4 or 5 " of rain in the last 10 days clover is showing life but seeding now might work still yet

Bear

 

[Foggy47]

This is a question for my own benefit in that I do not know the answers fully but it may apply to your problem ...
I can understand perennial type clovers in little hidey holes and hard to get to small plots but plots that are big enough to draw and prosper a deer herd and truly generate tonnage for the deer why would one not want to plant a fall annual package of 2 or 3 annual clovers along with brassicas n forbes with a cereal heavy dose after the clovers.Brassicas/forbes are up with the cereals being the real winter spring food bank deer need ..if you do not wish to spring plant let your prior fall planting go to seed then terminate and plant again if cost is a factor and IF the carryover of the previous fall planting can keep weeds down

In my 6B zone I think I will have to terminate (this is my first year of the no till 365 green process) spring and reseed a summer of sorts or I think the weeds will own the place ..

One thought about your existing process is it cannot hurt to run a cultipacker across everything you broadcast into and is bound to improve your soil/seed contact ..of course I think also the degree of density of you clover will greatly impact the success of your broadcast brassicas ...around here it has been so dry that if you had planted brassicas 2 weeks ago 80% of it would have hit awfully barren looking ground ..with 4 or 5 " of rain in the last 10 days clover is showing life but seeding now might work still yet

Bear

Bear....I just posted two pics of a couple of my Brassica plots in my Land Tour thread called Deertopia. I showed the best and worst current results from efforts (during the drought) similar to what you say above.....planting fall rye and clover and letting it go into mid summer before terminating 1/2 of the clover and rye for brassica. In my area the clover will be dormant before our gun season.....which leaves brassica as the remaining alternative for a draw to my deer (along with the rye from a Sept 1 planting). Clover will not make it when the temps get cold here. Just an FYI post.

 

[Brokenbear]

Bear....I just posted two pics of a couple of my Brassica plots in my Land Tour thread called Deertopia. I showed the best and worst current results from efforts (during the drought) similar to what you say above.....planting fall rye and clover and letting it go into mid summer before terminating 1/2 of the clover and rye for brassica. In my area the clover will be dormant before our gun season.....which leaves brassica as the remaining alternative for a draw to my deer (along with the rye from a Sept 1 planting). Clover will not make it when the temps get cold here. Just an FYI post.

Gotcha Foggy ...I cannot see you northern tier states folks doing anything but a major fall plant and a minor input of seed asap in the spring as a carry to the fall plant ..got to wonder if some strips of milo (one drill pass ) might be good for you to plant in the spring then fall plant broadcast the brassicas into the standing milo (this I have done/do and it works well) then no till the milo strips in the spring again with milo ..you can always scoot over a drill width from prior years milo strip..deer love the cover the milo seems to give them ..not to mention how you can channel the deer with how you lay out the strips

Bear

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

^ Good post Spud. I have similar concerns. I'm trying to be a no-till guy.....and this year did not do any planting in Spring. Instead I relied on my winter Rye and clover to provide for the deer through June. Basically did nothing until nuking about 1/2 of my clover for a July brassica seeding via my drill. As said July was dry.....and while I got fair germination from some rainfall......we did not get much until the last two days. Seems my brassica is going to "make it" but it's been slow developing. Not sure what kinda bulb growth I may get this year.

One thing that stood out for me though....is that keeping roots in the ground and staying away from tillage allows at least a chance at making it through a severe drought. Anxious to see the effects of the recent rains next week.

I just planted my Brassica on Friday. Just overseed by hand if you think it is to thin. I like later planted brassica better myself but your results may be different.

 

[SD51555]

I hear what you are saying. I have been doing this approach for 3 years now. Unfortunately grass & weeds are winning the battle. One of the challenges here in the north is trying to do a spring planting then a fall planting and get a reasonable outcome of food production in the fall planting. Two planting cycles very difficult.

In my area I would have to let spring planting go until at least end of June to get the OM materials to make the planting worthwhile. Then you need to try and plant in July to allow at least 60 days to get reasonable growth especially bulbs on radishes & turnips.

The problem is best rains are April through mid June. We often see limited rain, and this year severe drought conditions, in July to August.

In addition to the above, you have to have a period where you can spray herbicide to deal with the weeds & grasses. A real balancing act.

I've wondered if the nitrogen built up by the fall clover & WR over-seeding is actually consumed by the clover and WR emergence in the spring green-up. Thus reducing it's availability for the fall planting?

I've been at a long time, and I still haven't made my system air tight. Every year I seem to get a little closer. It's the transitioning from one crop to the next that's the hardest part. How do you hold back the weeds, and then terminate what's in front of you to get the next crop going, and without blowing all the soil health points you've accumulated? Those are my big issues to solve.

I've gone back to rye for my core cereal. I'll still throw some forage barley in to try to juice the fall tonnage. Rye does two big things at my place: 1) it's a great november forage. They never seem to eat it all, and they won't touch it until all the other good stuff is gone. 2) It'll hold back weeds until I mow in early August. I don't do spring plantings anymore. I just can't get anything to go without creating some kind of opening that would expose me to either weed infiltration or drought/flood vulnerability. Surprisingly enough, for as oppressively thick as my rye/sweet clover plot was when I mowed it, a few weeds stayed alive under there. Nothing to worry about at this point. I'll know a whole bunch more in another 3 weeks once the fall flush has filled back in.

 

[WTNUT]

No the few times I tried that way we never got enough rain. The best stand I had was drilled into killed clover. But it wasn’t magazine cover special. I’ve just never had good luck with brassicas. I keep threatening to plant them in late June or early July and hope for some moisture. I’ve got “a” Winfred brassica (kinda like kale) in my yard that came up in the spring in a burnt out stump. I must have spilled a few seeds last fall. It’s over 3 foot tall and browsed. I think my problem is planting to late it gets dry and then cold.

Hmm - When I spray to kill weeds and existing items in a plot, then till and cultipack I always have great results. I really like a mix of Groundhog Radish, Bonar Forage Rape, Purple Top Turnips and T-Raptor Hybrids.

My deer love them, but understand it is not always the case for others.


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[Bill]

I broadcasted some today into killed plots. We'll see how it goes. Next year I need to make a better plan and plant earlier like Lickcreek always advised

 

[Foggy47]

Not sure of the. thread where we were talking about the N being useful to the next crop. I saw this article on another site.....and thought it to be valuable for us.

https://iowawhitetail.com/community/attachments/1629902527730-png.121240/

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Not sure of the. thread where we were talking about the N being useful to the next crop. I saw this article on another site.....and thought it to be valuable for us.

https://iowawhitetail.com/community/attachments/1629902527730-png.121240/

Wonder how the amount of N in above ground biomass compares to N in below ground biomass?

 

[WTNUT]

Hmm - When I spray to kill weeds and existing items in a plot, then till and cultipack I always have great results. I really like a mix of Groundhog Radish, Bonar Forage Rape, Purple Top Turnips and T-Raptor Hybrids.

My deer love them, but understand it is not always the case for others.


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I do not doubt that works, but you are tilling. I am trying to save my clover. Not till it under.


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[FarmerDan]

Wonder how the amount of N in above ground biomass compares to N in below ground biomass?

A simple answer. Rare fore me! One-third above and 2/3 below, all from decaying plant material.

 

[WTNUT]

For those I teased with the thread, I must apologize. I took Dan’s advise and got on my knees to look at the ground. I cut the clover a fair amount, and there is a lot of thatch built up over the years from the clover and the cereal grains.

Because the clover plots look great, I decided to not tear them up with light tillage in order to plant brassicas. It just was not likely to happen no matter what I did without tillage and I decided against that.


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