Multi-Species Cover Crop Plots In The North

[Telemark]

SS-AGR-325/AG335: Soft Rush (Juncus effusus) Biology and Control in Pastures

University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

Looks like it has to be applied at right time and high rate.

2-4d is added to gly for burn downs because gly generally smokes grasses, but has more limitations for broadleafs.

https://wric.ucdavis.edu/information/natural%20areas/wr_J/Juncus_effusus-patens.pdf

Awesome. Thanks. I'll hit it this Spring and hopefully knock it out.

 

[omicron1792]

Are you getting these cool season grasses in the plots where you broadcast cereals in sept? I’d think having a solid winter cereal established would combat some of the unwanted cool season grasses in the spring.

I’ve found rye to do a great job fending off reed canary grass and other pasture grass that was growing where I’ve converted them to plots the last few years.

That’s good question wind. @farmlegend, what rate are you broadcasting cereals? You might consider broadcasting up to 200lbs/acre for a while to smother out cool seasons and build soil. You can back that down every year. But early the more the better. Rye>wheat>oats

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Also, @farmlegend your deer dont eat winter peas?!?! those are some picky mofos! I'm just excited to see some peas grow to more than 12" before being decimated but that's on 1.5-2.5 acre plots.

 

[farmlegend]

Also, @farmlegend your deer dont eat winter peas?!?! those are some picky mofos! I'm just excited to see some peas grow to more than 12" before being decimated but that's on 1.5-2.5 acre plots.

They are picky in the extreme. It almost has to be seen to be believed.
My deer will readily eat alfalfa, clover, corn, soybeans, and cereal grains. Anything else and it's a bite here and there but no serious feeding.
They will nibble at winter peas, but not much at all. They did hammer the iron and clay cowpeas and lablab beans I had in my cover crop plot the last two summers.

I first planted rape and turnips on my farm 20 years ago - they grew magnificently but the deer would not eat them, and they became a stinking mess in the spring. Played around with them for many years with the same results. I think it may have something to do with localized soil chemistry - I know guys a few miles away that get different results. No action on the radishes, either.

My deer really like winter wheat and oats a lot(until the oats freeze out, usually in late November-mid December). They'll eat cereal rye until it gets about 5" tall or so, whereupon it gets tough and stemmy and they barely eat it at all in the winter.

These weirdo deer love white clovers all winter long. Took three does off one of my clover plots yesterday morning. Principally Alice white.

 

[farmlegend]

Are you getting these cool season grasses in the plots where you broadcast cereals in sept? I’d think having a solid winter cereal established would combat some of the unwanted cool season grasses in the spring.

I’ve found rye to do a great job fending off reed canary grass and other pasture grass that was growing where I’ve converted them to plots the last few years.

Yeah, and I may need to up the wheat/cereal rye component to help with this.

I have had decent success with coolseason grasses by using a clethodim/crop oil cocktail, providing it's applied no later than mid-May or thereabouts in my area. Later than that, it's not nearly as effective.

 

[davidhelmly]

Sidebar - things I learned while looking up other stuff - alyce and alice are different clovers, I used to consider them the same. One's annual, the other perennial. Nice clover essay by Kent K: https://www.qdma.ca/en/2014-03-27-13-07-39/what-we-do/deer-biology-management/107-clover-101/

Alyce mixed with aeschynomene makes a great summer plot.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

My deer really like winter wheat and oats a lot(until the oats freeze out, usually in late November-mid December). They'll eat cereal rye until it gets about 5" tall or so, whereupon it gets tough and stemmy and they barely eat it at all in the winter.

Wonder if an awnless triticale variety wouldn't work well for you and be preferred food for longer than rye but also have a little of rye's weed combatting properties..

 

[omicron1792]

Alyce mixed with aeschynomene makes a great summer plot.

It’s my favorite summer crop now. But I doubt it would work at all up north.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

It’s my favorite summer crop now. But I doubt it would work at all up north.

It ties my brain in knots just trying to think of how it should be pronounced so you guys can keep it haha!

 

[Telemark]

It ties my brain in knots just trying to think of how it should be pronounced so you guys can keep it haha!

ass-ken-NOM-men-nee

 

[bigboreblr]

I forgot where you can look iyour local soil type. think it was USGS soil survery map, something like that. Might have some insight to the chemistry, like high iron or something like that.

Predominate weeds might have some insight too.

Tried canola at camp up north. Looked like it would be great for my soil type. Nobody touched. No deer, no snowshoe hares, no moose, nothing...... Cow and clay peas aren't spoken of much on here too.

Turnips are comical up north. The grouse will not let them live. Sitting alongside the snowmobile trail, and theres like 20 grouse. The males are fighting for territory. Not a signle turnip made it to bulb.

turnips love boron. Ever cut up any of those turnips, they had hollow heart?

 

[TreeDaddy]

ass-ken-NOM-men-nee

perhaps Baker will weigh in when he gets back from mexico

bill

 

[omicron1792]

perhaps Baker will weigh in when he gets back from mexico

bill

He already has! Watch first 5 seconds.

Is joint vetch the best summer crop?

I am a big fan of joint vetch. It compliments everything we do here on the farm perfectly and to me is one of the highest quality summer foods.Here's a quick video showing October vetch/alyce clover.

habitat-talk.com

 

[Wind Gypsy]

You guys can keep the Ass-Ken plant.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I first planted rape and turnips on my farm 20 years ago - they grew magnificently but the deer would not eat them, and they became a stinking mess in the spring. Played around with them for many years with the same results. I think it may have something to do with localized soil chemistry - I know guys a few miles away that get different results. No action on the radishes, either.

Do a soil test and see what's lacking. Deer wouldn't touch turnips and radishes in our parts for years either. We spent some time improving the soil, and then they started eating them. We were very low on P and K.

 

[omicron1792]

Do a soil test and see what's lacking. Deer wouldn't touch turnips and radishes in our parts for years either. We spent some time improving the soil, and then they started eating them. We were very low on P and K.

I more and more prescribe that it just takes them time to warm up to things. I would give 3 years of something before writing it off.

I never used rye until 4 years ago or so when I started the regenerative process. All I heard since I was a kid was use, wheat or oats, with oats being preferred. I didn’t see as much rye eaten early, but I think they prefer that just as much as the other two now.

 

[farmlegend]

Do a soil test and see what's lacking. Deer wouldn't touch turnips and radishes in our parts for years either. We spent some time improving the soil, and then they started eating them. We were very low on P and K.

I've read that deer often avoid certain foods in certain places, and it has to do with certain nutrients they find unpalatable. As an example, members of the brassica family are very efficient at extracting sulphur from the soil, and deer will avoid eating plants with certain levels of sulphur in them, while they may eat those same plants in soil that is sulphur-poor. I believe Kroll has written about this. I do have measurable amounts of sulphur in my dirt, and it's possible that has something to do with the multi-decade brassica avoidance of my deer.

 

[bigboreblr]

If you need some late season deer attraction, give austrian peas a try. IF turnips are iffy, there kael varieties you can try too.

Any way of obtaining doe management permits? Could get a few doe earlier in the year if you qualify.

Take numerous pictures of your weeds. Dig up the roots of your most common ones. See someone mention rsuh, it's not all that different looking than mace sedge. Take a few samples home with you too. sometimes there's fine detail, like where the leaves separate from the stem. Fine details in blade structure. The shape of the leaf spread. Fine details on seed heads. Or things look similar above ground, but below there's very different type of roots growing. Or, one variety spreads by roots or not.

Numerous perennial plants look like grass, but are not grass. Like sedges. some weeds have significant energy from the roots to regenerate. Sedge can really be beat up by tillage, then spraying emerging leaves.

 

[Skeeter]

In this podcast Dr Strickland gives his opinion that if deer aren't eating brassicas (in a particular area over many years) it is a possibility that the brassicas are lacking in a desired nutrient that other browse in the area have in higher amounts. If you really want an answer, taking plant tissue samples from the brassica and whatever the deer seem to be browsing heavily at that time, then comparing nutrient levels, seems to be the best approach. His example was sulfur in the brassica being half of what it was in the preferred browse. Soil test could show adequate levels but may be unavailable to the plant due to some antagonistic relationship within the soil. Lots of people in the regen ag space give a similar recommendation.

 

[Brian662]

Zero

I'm not so sure about that. Others on this forum have found there to be concern.

Clethodim on brassicas, then rye

Have some foxtail and witch grass starting in on my brassicas that are slow to fill in due to drought. Trying to maximize plot space, I normally overseed brassicas with rye. I've found the recommended plantback time on wheat/rye after a clethodim application is 30 days, is that everyone's...

habitat-talk.com

IMO, it would be best to wait minimum of two weeks. Label states one month.