Productive properties in underwhelming states

This is about the best way I can put it.

I'll give up "my booner" for an occasional nice pretty 150" buck or to see the smile on a young hunters face after their first deer harvest any and every day of the year! I would still love to have a swing at a monster. And maybe that is a little contradictory. My point is that I'm not going to sacrifice everything along the way to get it. Do you have to give a little to get a little? Sure. But I don't think I am killing off every 3 or 4 year old deer in my area by taking one every couple of years, or hurting anything by allowing a scrub buck to be taken every once in a while. I'm stopping to smell the roses as they say!
I am the same way - but we dont have booners - a rare 150 maybe - and it is a rare mature deer that even makes 150 here. In my area, the “average” 5.5 yr plus - scores 104. It is easy to tell what 3 yr old has potential. We dont have 100” 3 yr olds add 50” of antlers in a year or two. That means, most of our mature deer will not make 125”. Those are the bucks we shoot the most of. We dont have enough does to feel comfortable shooting one very often. Last year - we killed a 5 yr old 97” 7 pt, a 4 yr old 109” 8 pt and a nice 120” 3 yr old 8 pt my 12 yr old grand daughter killed by herself. That deer had some potential - but no hard feelings with the grand daughter killing it. Did not have a single picture of it until one min before she shot it. We did not kill a doe.

There is a lot more to deer hunting than killing a 150” buck every few years. The excitement after the shot, the tracking, recovery, skinning, cutting up and processing, making sausage, jerky, cooking and eating, the bragging and story telling. There arent enough 150” deer around for everyone to get a taste of it. I see no reason to not utilize these mature bucks that will never have trophy antlers. They can still be dang hard to kill. We have been hunting a deer for the past 3 yrs that is a 6 yr old this year that has been a four pt the last three years. He is a wary son of a gun. None of us has every laid eyes on him - a true trophy.
 
As far as co-ops go I think the biggest hurdle is just talking to people. There is a guy that leases about 2000 acres next to me. I owned my place for years before ever talking to him. The land owner called me one day and asked me to come up the the barn and meet him. Before that day ended we were sharing trail cam pics, sharing old harvest pics and realizing where “that deer” we were watching died. His rules are not as strict as mine but there close. We’ve become good friends and share equipment, borrow seed from each other and even help recover deer with each other. Got a new neighbor on another side about 4 years ago, I met him before he purchased the property. He was researching the area. He’s just a crazy as me and I do think me being a neighbor helped him feel good about buying. Now, this guy and I share pics and agree on what deer to pass (when we have one with real potential.). We passed a 150” buck one year in this agreement and when the neighbor killed him the following year he was a friggin monster.

Road hunters are always going to take some, cars will hit some, far off neighbors will take some. But it is nice to know if you let one go he’s not getting dumped right over the fence.
 
Understood! I enjoy digging into the mindset of hunters and managers so sorry if I came off as anything other than inquisitive. I think it can help to formulate goals with neighbors or other hunters/managers if you can understand what their desires are.
You are fine. Sometimes I am not as articulate as I would like.
 
On the Exodus podcast a few weeks back there was some great discussion on one rule each state could implement to improve their buck whitetail hunting. Indiana was used as an example of a state that has benefited from changing a rule that skyrocketed their record book entries (https://www.boone-crockett.org/indianas-big-whitetail-buck-revival). I haven't verified it, but in this article they mention that indiana has led B&C entries in '19 and '20. I think that's incredible and exciting to think about. I love that the Huff buck is bringing attention to the benefits of some policy change. Hopefully other state wildlife agencies are paying attention and we can all benefit as a result.
What rule did IN change?
 
It's all about age. I belong to a small co-op in Michigan, we have a couple thousand acres of members who claim to pass 1.5 old bucks. Then we have a "core group" of 5 land owners and just under 500 contiguous acres that are roughly 4.5 or 140". I say roughly because I've been adamant from the beginning not to have firm rules, if a deer gets you excited, by all means shoot it. In 2019, we killed or found deadheads of 5 bucks from 150-177" on the "Core group" and have killed 2 over 140" already this year. This type of hunting is not supposed to exist Michigan. The biggest issue we have is the neighborhood really puts a hurt on the upper end young bucks. Many of them will pass that basket rack 2.5yo 8pt, but almost none will pass that 2.5yo 130" 10pt, which I understand is a tough pass. The best scoring buck in the co-ops short history was only a 3 year old, so the genetics and nutrition to produce world class bucks certainly exists. Can only imagine the possibilities if we could advance more of those upper end young bucks.

Our core group added a 160" 13pt to this seasons kills tonight.
 
Our core group added a 160" 13pt to this seasons kills tonight.
Congrats! That has to be one of the best areas in Michigan from my limited exposure to the state.
 
In case you folks haven't seen this.... Just to demonstrate that a monster can come from anywhere....

The huff buck taken last year - is the largest typical whitetail (211-4/8") taken in the US. It is only second to the Hanson buck taken in Canada. It was taken in my county....where 75+% of the land is flat corn and soybean field. 185 acre property where it was taken is part of an area where the streams make farming difficult so there is more trees and cover in this area that is maybe only a few square miles in size total. This area is difficult to hunt and doesn't see a lot of total hunting pressure as well. This area is maybe 10 miles from me as the crow flies.... Now to get an idea of how obscure this really is.... Indiana isn't a top 5 deer destination state....maybe not even the top 10. The county this deer came from tends to struggle to harvest 800 deer total across all seasons from year to year. Simply because we have lower deer numbers because the habitat simply isn't there to support them.
View attachment 46769

So....sometimes the stars align and something like this happens.
Makes me wonder if he didn’t escape from a high fence somewhere.
 
Makes me wonder if he didn’t escape from a high fence somewhere.
To my knowledge there are no "high fence" places in the area. As I understand it other hunters where well aware that this deer existed and kept it pretty quiet (obviously). So, I don't think it was an escapee.
 
I think they had good trail cam history with that deer over the coarse of years. Just a giant, clean buck.
 
The timing of the gun season is a HUGE factor in why certain states have big mature bucks.

I hunted in Missouri and saw a lot of bucks (mostly young)… traveled about 21.5 miles each day to hunt , but stayed in Iowa.

I saw a dozen or more big bucks in the 1.5 miles of road while traveling in Iowa, compared to (1) in the 20 miles in Missouri. This is over 4 days…

It was night and day . Not saying Missouri is not good, but it’s like a switch goes on in Iowa. More rutting, more mature bucks … no guns in November in Iowa!
 
The timing of the gun season is a HUGE factor in why certain states have big mature bucks.

I hunted in Missouri and saw a lot of bucks (mostly young)… traveled about 21.5 miles each day to hunt , but stayed in Iowa.

I saw a dozen or more big bucks in the 1.5 miles of road while traveling in Iowa, compared to (1) in the 20 miles in Missouri. This is over 4 days…

It was night and day . Not saying Missouri is not good, but it’s like a switch goes on in Iowa. More rutting, more mature bucks … no guns in November in Iowa!
Lost this guy Saturday to out of state rifle hunters…among three other younger bucks. Don’t tempt me to move my family to Iowa!
Prototype for a future stud. Not even worth mounting currently. 0E3376C3-397A-48D9-AFDA-6CD191891717.jpeg
 
An out of state hunter paid money to take that one?
 
An out of state hunter paid money to take that one?
These guys actually lease a small farm next to me. They are not going with the outfitter. Oh but the outfitter clients would shoot each to shoot that
 
That is in Missouri?
 
That is in Missouri?
Even worse. Kentucky. Rifle season right in the middle of rut. If I was king of the world rifle season would be Dec 15-16 and an out of state tag allocation! Don’t think I’d be too popular of a king.
Edit…don’t guess it’s worse than Missouri cause I’m pretty sure theirs opened this weekend too.
 
MO and KY have stuff non-residents find worth leasing at least...
 
Even worse. Kentucky. Rifle season right in the middle of rut. If I was king of the world rifle season would be Dec 15-16 and an out of state tag allocation! Don’t think I’d be too popular of a king.
Edit…don’t guess it’s worse than Missouri cause I’m pretty sure theirs opened this weekend too.

I'd vote for you to be king. 1 buck seasons, rifle after the rut, NR by application with a set number of tags based on herd dynamic not demand.
 
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