Large acreage and literally a staff of habitat managers working nearly full time.
Productive properties in underwhelming states
- Thread starter Howboutthemdawgs
- Start date
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Thinking you can manage your way to monster bucks in PA is like saying you’re managing your powerball tickets. You better be ready to declare success and pat yourself on the back every time one of your losing tickets has the powerball.
Or have one of those many farms with a few thousand acres and no road frontage. Those exist in PA, right?
Or maybe just be realistic and enjoy hunting your property.
Or have one of those many farms with a few thousand acres and no road frontage. Those exist in PA, right?
Or maybe just be realistic and enjoy hunting your property.
PatinPA
5 year old buck +
Oh I'm fully aware that I'm not managing anything. I'm 100% reliant on my neighbors not killing everything. There is a fairly large farm 600-700 acre range to my south. There are some big bucks on that property. I'm not sure if it's through management or just a large area that is not hunted very hard. There are still a few large properties still around. There was a 1000+ acre all woodlot sold a couple of years ago to a hunting lodge nearby. I thought it was a steal at 2.65 million. Unfortunately about 2.6 million out of my price range. They immediately timbered it and it's already in a good area next to a family that has another 1000 acres of their own that gets very little pressure. They have a chance to grow some big ones out there. We're all in a CWD area, so no supplemental feeding. But our winters aren't very harsh, a few coyotes and bear but not overwhelming.
j-bird
Moderator
I personally think that in many states there are pockets of good deer habitat. The trick is finding those pockets and having enough land under control/management to actually impact the deer. Productive soils, and a good balance of cover and natural foods is what you are looking for. Then toss in some management, and allow those deer some time to mature and I think you are on to something.
In most cases this is going to require a co-op of some sort or an area dominated by larger parcels that are not heavily hunted, or areas where the land simply doesn't allow significant hunter access. In all of these cases....the result is a larger portion of land, with ample food and cover with lower hunter numbers...either on purpose or simply by chance.
I gave up on "management" a long time ago. I simply try to not shoot the younger bucks and try to provide some cover and food for them and to assist in my ability to pattern their movements. my 150 acres (100 of it corn field) simply isn't enough. As such, I work with what I have and try to make the best of it. I doubt I ever shoot a B&C class deer, but maybe one will get lost some day! The basic principles of QDM can make an impact....you just have to be reasonable in your expectations. But yes, sometimes controlling the hunters is the hardest part.
In most cases this is going to require a co-op of some sort or an area dominated by larger parcels that are not heavily hunted, or areas where the land simply doesn't allow significant hunter access. In all of these cases....the result is a larger portion of land, with ample food and cover with lower hunter numbers...either on purpose or simply by chance.
I gave up on "management" a long time ago. I simply try to not shoot the younger bucks and try to provide some cover and food for them and to assist in my ability to pattern their movements. my 150 acres (100 of it corn field) simply isn't enough. As such, I work with what I have and try to make the best of it. I doubt I ever shoot a B&C class deer, but maybe one will get lost some day! The basic principles of QDM can make an impact....you just have to be reasonable in your expectations. But yes, sometimes controlling the hunters is the hardest part.
bwoods11
5 year old buck +
There’s a young guy from Minnesota that has taken (4) Booners in the past 10 years. His family has around 500 acres of awesome habitat and they bow hunt only.
Todd County .
His story was featured in a past Realtree article. Limit the pressure, good habitat, food, bigger parcel . It can be done .
Todd County .
His story was featured in a past Realtree article. Limit the pressure, good habitat, food, bigger parcel . It can be done .
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Same area as my buddy's family 300 acres mentioned above. They would shoot awesome bucks annually with a little basic management of human intrusion/pressure.
Triple C
5 year old buck +
Yep. Kill sho nuf monsters in metro Atlanta. I've come to conclusion that, at least in the piedmont section of GA, it's all about age. With a 3 month long firearms season and 2 buck limit, ain't many that make it beyond 2 yrs old. They get slaughtered. I"ve been at it for 11 years on just under 300 acres with prime habitat, cover and food. Can't tell you how many 3 yr olds we watch that disappear as firearms season starts. It's a bit frustrating on a personal level but really that's about it. Still love it.
Oddly enough, our home sits on 56 acres just 30 minutes from the farm and in an adjoining county with much more dense population and very, very little hunting pressure and hardly any around the house. Much higher percentage of killing an old warrior here at the house on 56 acres than at the farm on nearly 300 acres. Oddly...I still prefer hunting the farm.
Son killed this buck behind the house a week ago today.
j-bird
Moderator
In case you folks haven't seen this.... Just to demonstrate that a monster can come from anywhere....
The huff buck taken last year - is the largest typical whitetail (211-4/8") taken in the US. It is only second to the Hanson buck taken in Canada. It was taken in my county....where 75+% of the land is flat corn and soybean field. 185 acre property where it was taken is part of an area where the streams make farming difficult so there is more trees and cover in this area that is maybe only a few square miles in size total. This area is difficult to hunt and doesn't see a lot of total hunting pressure as well. This area is maybe 10 miles from me as the crow flies.... Now to get an idea of how obscure this really is.... Indiana isn't a top 5 deer destination state....maybe not even the top 10. The county this deer came from tends to struggle to harvest 800 deer total across all seasons from year to year. Simply because we have lower deer numbers because the habitat simply isn't there to support them.
So....sometimes the stars align and something like this happens.
The huff buck taken last year - is the largest typical whitetail (211-4/8") taken in the US. It is only second to the Hanson buck taken in Canada. It was taken in my county....where 75+% of the land is flat corn and soybean field. 185 acre property where it was taken is part of an area where the streams make farming difficult so there is more trees and cover in this area that is maybe only a few square miles in size total. This area is difficult to hunt and doesn't see a lot of total hunting pressure as well. This area is maybe 10 miles from me as the crow flies.... Now to get an idea of how obscure this really is.... Indiana isn't a top 5 deer destination state....maybe not even the top 10. The county this deer came from tends to struggle to harvest 800 deer total across all seasons from year to year. Simply because we have lower deer numbers because the habitat simply isn't there to support them.
So....sometimes the stars align and something like this happens.
J-bird is correct. Our farm is in southeastern Indiana and only a few counties south of where Huff shot this monster. Our place is in the wooded hills and hollers 15 miles from the Ohio river. To think that anything close to this deer was roaming around here in Indiana is/was remarkable.
Hoytvectrix
5 year old buck +
On the Exodus podcast a few weeks back there was some great discussion on one rule each state could implement to improve their buck whitetail hunting. Indiana was used as an example of a state that has benefited from changing a rule that skyrocketed their record book entries (https://www.boone-crockett.org/indianas-big-whitetail-buck-revival). I haven't verified it, but in this article they mention that indiana has led B&C entries in '19 and '20. I think that's incredible and exciting to think about. I love that the Huff buck is bringing attention to the benefits of some policy change. Hopefully other state wildlife agencies are paying attention and we can all benefit as a result.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
Some states just don't care about hunters wants unfortunately, NY is one of them. They destroyed the deer herd in my old stomping grounds by implementing what they call DMFA (Deer Managment Focus Area) which basically made it a murder zone across 60,000 acres allowing 2 doe per day taken by anyone that applied for it, and the season is from October 1st till January 31st a full month past regular deer seasons. This is a long story so I'll keep it as short as possible.
Rich folks bought and built on rural area outside Ithaca now well established and called Cayuga Heights. For many years they protected and some even fed their "pet deer" which around 2000-2010 started to become a problem with deer eating their fancy landscaping. Picture a donut, roughly 10 years ago they implemented the DMFA which created a no-hunting zone in the problem area, that is the hole in the donut. They kill off all the deer in the surrounding area, the donut, in theory the deer in Cayuga Heights would gravitate out of there.
Hunters begged the DEC for alternatives like organizing unarmed drives to push the deer out of Cayuga Heights to watchers well outside the town as a solution but the rich folks still weren't having it. In all fairness I do agree the whole area seemed overpopulated with deer but not beyond holding capacity food wise, there was just a high DSM compared to anywhere else in the state.
Rich folks bought and built on rural area outside Ithaca now well established and called Cayuga Heights. For many years they protected and some even fed their "pet deer" which around 2000-2010 started to become a problem with deer eating their fancy landscaping. Picture a donut, roughly 10 years ago they implemented the DMFA which created a no-hunting zone in the problem area, that is the hole in the donut. They kill off all the deer in the surrounding area, the donut, in theory the deer in Cayuga Heights would gravitate out of there.
Hunters begged the DEC for alternatives like organizing unarmed drives to push the deer out of Cayuga Heights to watchers well outside the town as a solution but the rich folks still weren't having it. In all fairness I do agree the whole area seemed overpopulated with deer but not beyond holding capacity food wise, there was just a high DSM compared to anywhere else in the state.
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
Wasn't there a really big buck killed there inside the hole? Cornell?
It's all about age. I belong to a small co-op in Michigan, we have a couple thousand acres of members who claim to pass 1.5 old bucks. Then we have a "core group" of 5 land owners and just under 500 contiguous acres that are roughly 4.5 or 140". I say roughly because I've been adamant from the beginning not to have firm rules, if a deer gets you excited, by all means shoot it. In 2019, we killed or found deadheads of 5 bucks from 150-177" on the "Core group" and have killed 2 over 140" already this year. This type of hunting is not supposed to exist Michigan. The biggest issue we have is the neighborhood really puts a hurt on the upper end young bucks. Many of them will pass that basket rack 2.5yo 8pt, but almost none will pass that 2.5yo 130" 10pt, which I understand is a tough pass. The best scoring buck in the co-ops short history was only a 3 year old, so the genetics and nutrition to produce world class bucks certainly exists. Can only imagine the possibilities if we could advance more of those upper end young bucks.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Lots of parties at the table wanting different things. I would love a better deer age class in Minnesota but if polled, my $ is on the bulk of deer hunters saying they want liberal regulations that have the opposite impact. It's a problem across the country for most species. Many want someone else to be limited but turn a blind eye to the fact their own desired opportunity is negatively impacting things.
NY guy here and know of some properties and guys that consistently kill deer that shouldn’t exist here.
Two reasons- like others have shown here they’re poached from non hunting areas.
The habitat related means to do so legally is to have F-W-C and not do anything with that ground until it is time with factual reference. The willingness of folks to do off season work, pay taxes and minimize all impacts … potentially for years and THEN have a rock solid strategy to bet the house on your efforts is not for the weak or sane. But it works.
Two reasons- like others have shown here they’re poached from non hunting areas.
The habitat related means to do so legally is to have F-W-C and not do anything with that ground until it is time with factual reference. The willingness of folks to do off season work, pay taxes and minimize all impacts … potentially for years and THEN have a rock solid strategy to bet the house on your efforts is not for the weak or sane. But it works.
Troubles Trees
5 year old buck +
I am not sure of the particular buck you are referencing but both Cornell and Cayuga Heights have some big bucks poached every year. The deer in those areas are in a constant human environment so they don't spook and act more like tame deer which is actually kind of cool to observe. Shameful to see some people go so low as to try and claim them as their hunting trophies though.
Buckly
5 year old buck +
Not to mention the extreme cost of doing such. A lot of money to shoot a deer and not be able to use the property in other ways
j-bird
Moderator
I have no idea about the book entries.... The big rule that I think helped has been our "one buck rule". A hunter is only allowed to harvest one "antlered deer" for the entire deer season...regardless of season or weapon choice. This has made SOME hunters think twice about the bucks they harvest and allows SOME younger bucks to grow a year or two older. Prior to this rule a hunter was allowed a "archery buck" and a "firearms buck", so some hunters where not as "picky"..... This rule was implemented at least a decade ago maybe longer. We still have 16 days of general firearms season, and another 16 days of muzzleloader season. The firearms season is roughly the second half of November. So it's not like we are limiting the chances at those deer....
