Productive properties in underwhelming states

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Growing up hunting in hunting camps with upwards of 25-30 members I’ve always maintained people management is harder than deer management. So multiply that by a factor of a state population and you can run into real issues growing mature deer. I always enjoy hearing success stories in unlikely places. It’s a giant validation that habitat and quality deer management works if given a chance. Uncommon places that come to mind are like a North Carolina, Michigan, Minnesota (not the southeast corner), Pennsylvania, New York among some others for sure. Craig Harper talks about a foothills property in North Carolina that has started managing intensively years ago and they are now shooting booners. There’s a guy on another site that has a huge chunk of ground that growing absolute giants in Virginia. Anyone know of any properties that buck the trend (pun intended) of the states reputation and produces high scoring mature bucks regularly? Not 130’s but 160’s and up regularly.

 

[PatinPA]

PA has the potential for big buck. They just rarely get to live long enough. Starting to see some consistent big ones taken in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and Philly.
This one was poached about an hour north of me on federal penitentiary land. This is Union county that is not known for big buck.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/buck-poached-central-pennsylvania/

This one was from last year or the year before. A state college suburb buck, 200 incher.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting...he-top-10-non-typical-bucks-in-state-history/

It's getting better where I live. A 120" buck is not that uncommon anymore. Although just about everybody I know (Including me) is shooting a 120" buck. We finally broke out from shooting all the 1 and 2 year olds. Now just need to get some to 4 and 5 and I think we would see the occasional booner.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'd be interested to hear this. It seems in many cases these types of properties are tied into at least a small co-op or something. There's a lot written about Jake Ehlinger and Jim Brauker's properties in MI but it seems they have a neighborhood of like minded folks that has to help a lot.

I know in MN all along the forest to prairie transition areas from SE to NW MN there is good potential for nice bucks if they are allowed to get old. My best friend's family land is 300 acres in central MN. They don't do squat for improvements and show up with 15 people to camp and party on the land all weekend during gun season, sit in the same stands every year without a single thought to wind and access, shoot everything that walks, and still shoot a tank every now and then. If that parcel was tightly managed theyd be shooting awesome bucks annually but it's always been about the social aspect for them.

I'm pretty sure St Louis County MN is 2nd or 3rd most typical whitetail B&C entries in the country but almost all from the days gone by when everything was logged or recovering from burns and wolf populations were much lower. I would LOVE to see and learn from anyone that consistently manages a property for quality bucks in the heart of MN wolf country. It feels like an exercise in futility to me.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'd be interested to hear this. It seems in many cases these types of properties are tied into at least a small co-op or something. There's a lot written about Jake Ehlinger and Jim Brauker's properties in MI but it seems they have a neighborhood of like minded folks that has to help a lot.

I know in MN all along the forest to prairie transition areas from SE to NW MN there is good potential for nice bucks if they are allowed to get old. My best friend's family land is 300 acres in central MN. They don't do squat for improvements and show up with 15 people to camp and party on the land all weekend during gun season, sit in the same stands every year without a single thought to wind and access, shoot everything that walks, and still shoot a tank every now and then. If that parcel was tightly managed theyd be shooting awesome bucks annually but it's always been about the social aspect for them.

I'm pretty sure St Louis County MN is 2nd or 3rd most typical whitetail B&C entries in the country but almost all from the days gone by when everything was logged or recovering from burns. I would LOVE to see and learn from anyone that consistently manages a property for quality bucks in the heart of MN wolf country. It feels like an exercise in futility to me.

Exactly. This topic is so interesting to me. I think these properties should be celebrated as examples in areas where people say “well we don’t have the genetics to do that here”. BS. It’s all about age and nutrition. It’s cool in iowa, Illinois, Missouri, etc. but it’s amazing when it’s done in places where their backs are against the wall. I saw a video from Levi Morgan on his Pennsylvania farm and he has some nice deer likely due to his management. Take out his pimping of everything from his home to his underwear to his planting method, grant woods proved a lot on his place in a historically bad part of southern Missouri. The only “depressing” thing is one commonality in all these diamonds in the rough, is large acreage, so those of us will smaller tracts are reliant on our neighbors help.
A friend of a friend grows and kills some giants in Michigan. I respect the heck out of that.

 

[homerj1]

I'm pretty sure St Louis County MN is 2nd or 3rd most typical whitetail B&C entries in the country but almost all from the days gone by when everything was logged or recovering from burns and wolf populations were much lower.

Being over 1000 sq. miles larger than the state of Connecticut doesn't hurt anything either :)

 

[SwampCat]

It is all relative. I live in the Gulf Coastal Plain - the sorriest area of our state for quality deer. Average 104” for a 5 yr old buck. We average killing a couple mid 120’s every year and a 140 to 160 every other year. I have two 150 plus on camera this year - off 300 acres - with nearby public. 15 adjacent property owners - half of them with one or more corn feeder - many 15/20 acre owners with no vested interest in growing bucks.

We provide a lot of food - 30 acres food plots and six feed locations on 300 acres. We keep a lot of does - we wont hardly shoot one so the neighbors can. Last year we killed three bucks - a 5, a 4, and a 3 yr old which was the best of the bunch the 12 yr old grand daughter killed - so there is that to deal with also.

Bedding cover all around my property - I am more concerned about food. Out bait or out grow thy neighbor. Kill them early and late. The rut is almost a non-issue for us as far as quality deer. It is all about food to attract bucks and does to maintain the herd and attract bucks. We kill them early near bait while still on summer habits or kill them Dec on - after rut when they are eating to put weight back on after rut.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

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It is all relative. I live in the Gulf Coastal Plain - the sorriest area of our state for quality deer. Average 104” for a 5 yr old buck. We average killing a couple mid 120’s every year and a 140 to 160 every other year. I have two 150 plus on camera this year - off 300 acres - with nearby public. 15 adjacent property owners - half of them with one or more corn feeder - many 15/20 acre owners with no vested interest in growing bucks.

We provide a lot of food - 30 acres food plots and six feed locations on 300 acres. We keep a lot of does - we wont hardly shoot one so the neighbors can. Last year we killed three bucks - a 5, a 4, and a 3 yr old which was the best of the bunch the 12 yr old grand daughter killed - so there is that to deal with also.

Bedding cover all around my property - I am more concerned about food. Out bait or out grow thy neighbor. Kill them early and late. The rut is almost a non-issue for us as far as quality deer. It is all about food to attract bucks and does to maintain the herd and attract bucks. We kill them early near bait while still on summer habits or kill them Dec on - after rut when they are eating to put weight back on after rut.

I was going to mention arkansas but like Mississippi, it’s region specific. I know some guys where we duck hunt who are very quiet about some of the giants they are killing! But yeah in your area I’d say you are definitely the unicorn property I’m talking about admiring. Great work. I’m sure you’d agree it’s all worth it.

 

[SwampCat]

I was going to mention arkansas but like Mississippi, it’s region specific. I know some guys where we duck hunt who are very quiet about some of the giants they are killing! But yeah in your area I’d say you are definitely the unicorn property I’m talking about admiring. Great work. I’m sure you’d agree it’s all worth it.

The Arkansas Delta is some of the richest ground in the country. Most of it is in beans, corn, or rice. Timber acreage is in short supply - but grows some monster bucks.

 

[BenAllgood]

Not on a hunted property, but this is on a property that allows no hunting (some have been poached). The fence is not around the whole property. It's not that big of an area either, and there are clubs in the area. It's in a parish (county) in Louisiana that has ZERO bucks in B&C. The largest on record is 137" in the parish. This just shows what age and little pressure can do. These aren't one off deer either. There have been monsters over the years sighted and poached there.

 

[Catscratch]

Not on a hunted property, but this is on a property that allows no hunting (some have been poached). The fence is not around the whole property. It's not that big of an area either, and there are clubs in the area. It's in a parish (county) in Louisiana that has ZERO bucks in B&C. The largest on record is 137" in the parish. This just shows what age and little pressure can do. These aren't one off deer either. There have been monsters over the years sighted and poached there.

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Wow! No supplemental feed or ag? Basically just age?

 

[BenAllgood]

Wow! No supplemental feed or ag? Basically just age?

Just age and almost zero pressure. There's zero ag in the vicinity. It's in an industrial park area. There's big oaks and some early succession areas.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Not on a hunted property, but this is on a property that allows no hunting (some have been poached). The fence is not around the whole property. It's not that big of an area either, and there are clubs in the area. It's in a parish (county) in Louisiana that has ZERO bucks in B&C. The largest on record is 137" in the parish. This just shows what age and little pressure can do. These aren't one off deer either. There have been monsters over the years sighted and poached there.

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Holy crap!!! If that isn’t a ringing endorsement for age and native nutrition I don’t know what is. The clubs in that area should be embarrassed that 137 is the best they could do.

 

[BenAllgood]

Holy crap!!! If that isn’t a ringing endorsement for age and native nutrition I don’t know what is. The clubs in that area should be embarrassed that 137 is the best they could do.

That's the mind boggling thing. There are plant workers there and other people that drive by (heavy traffic) that go to their clubs and shoot 1.5 year old bucks daily, but gawk over these giants. As many of them there are that hunt, you would think they would put 2 and 2 together.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

That's the mind boggling thing. There are plant workers there and other people that drive by (heavy traffic) that go to their clubs and shoot 1.5 year old bucks daily, but gawk over these giants. As many of them there are that hunt, you would think they would put 2 and 2 together.

A Cajun and trigger control are oxymorons…haha couldn’t help it!

 

[Derek Reese 29]

PA has the potential for big buck. They just rarely get to live long enough. Starting to see some consistent big ones taken in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and Philly.
This one was poached about an hour north of me on federal penitentiary land. This is Union county that is not known for big buck.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/buck-poached-central-pennsylvania/

This one was from last year or the year before. A state college suburb buck, 200 incher.
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting...he-top-10-non-typical-bucks-in-state-history/

It's getting better where I live. A 120" buck is not that uncommon anymore. Although just about everybody I know (Including me) is shooting a 120" buck. We finally broke out from shooting all the 1 and 2 year olds. Now just need to get some to 4 and 5 and I think we would see the occasional booner.

Agree with you Pat. I come from an area and a family of meat hunters. We have definitely seen improvement in sizes as both the hunters (my brother and I are in our 30s and are the youngest who hunt) and deer (hate to say it, but the antler restrictions appear to be working) have gotten older and wiser. We still try are working hard to convince everyone not to shoot the first legal buck that comes along and are seeing the benefits in terms of more mature deer and better year classes. Encouraging people to shoot doe is still hard, as they grew up when there just weren't that many deer (or when there were too many and not enough bucks).
The potential is definitely there. My in laws have a farm in a farther northern part of PA that hasn't been hunted in 20 years. The bucks and age classes up there are incredible, but I am still learning how/when to hunt that property so no harvests yet. The rut is wild up there, as there are far more and older bucks and not quite as many does. I heard a buck fight a week ago that lasted for 5 minutes...in early October! Pretty east to see what good food, less pressure and some age can do...

 

[BenAllgood]

A Cajun and trigger control are oxymorons…haha couldn’t help it!

It's true and embarrassing. And, these same guys that see these same bucks every day will go out of state to the Midwest to kill the "big ones", and come back home wishing they could hunt down here and see what they drive past every single day. Heck, I bought land out of state just because of the pressure on the deer in general around here, much less the young bucks. It's like hunting a whole different animal.

 

[Catscratch]

Just age and almost zero pressure. There's zero ag in the vicinity. It's in an industrial park area. There's big oaks and some early succession areas.

I believe epigenetics can play big role. Stress has been shown to cause unhealthy children. It can be generational. An area with low pressure or stress likely allows getter genetics (in hunters opinions) to be expressed. Interesting!

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

It's true and embarrassing. And, these same guys that see these same bucks every day will go out of state to the Midwest to kill the "big ones", and come back home wishing they could hunt down here and see what they drive past every single day. Heck, I bought land out of state just because of the pressure on the deer in general around here, much less the young bucks. It's like hunting a whole different animal.

I can go into a whole dissertation about discipline and self control and how it relates to hunting decisions correlated to personal decisions, but in a interest of not pissing some folks off I will bite my tongue!
With that said hopefully with better access to information the next generation of hunter will understand it is doable anywhere. That was the point of this post, to highlight properties where the prevailing wisdom says it can’t be done.

 

[Troubles Trees]

Is that last picture with the dead one have a Trooper car in the background? Was it poached?

 

[BenAllgood]

Is that last picture with the dead one have a Trooper car in the background? Was it poached?

It was hit by a car. It's low fence on that side. This gives an idea of the habitat. It's heavily patrolled. The deer know they are safe. This is 15 minutes from my house, but I travel 10 hours to my property.