Let's discuss the best cereal rye varieties.

[Foggy47]

Cereal Rye is an important crop for me. Why? When planted late August or September it will provide something green for my deer to eat in fall.....and it's the first thing to green up in spring. Believe me....after a tough winter here in MN my deer are often starving. I'm in Zone 3 - tough requirements here.

Thus.....in spring....as the rye grows it keeps weeds at bay as it allows my clover to flourish and provides cover. I plan to let my rye grow into July at which time I will terminate it via roller crimping and / or with Glyphosate (depending on circumstances). Letting the rye grow will provide fawns with cover during a crucial time when they are most vulnerable to predators ( Coyotes and Bears at my place).

In Short......I have a short growing season so it's difficult to grow a summer "release type" crop.....thus I rely on the rye for its N value and weed suppression. I buy about 1200 lbs of rye seed each year and it's hard to specify a variety if you wait too long.....IME. The last two years I planted Elbon.....but I am rethinking that.

NOW.....to the point.....I found an interesting article ON WHICH VARIETY performs best given certain expectations for the Rye variety. I had planned to buy Aroostook Rye in January......but I am still interpreting this data. Any advice or experience is appreciated.

Here is an article that discusses the Rye Varieties:
https://practicalfarmers.org/research/cereal-rye-variety-trial-2019/#:~:text=Six cereal rye varieties were screened at two,open-pollinated varieties, were intermediate yield performers across sites.

Cereal Rye Variety Trial 2019 - Practical Farmers of Iowa

This project is funded by Walton Family Foundation & Albert Lea Seed House In a Nutshell: Six cereal rye varieties were screened at two Iowa State University research farms and one commercial farm. Key Findings: Hybrid varieties, Bono and ...

practicalfarmers.org

 

[FarmerDan]

Classic example of the difficulties of interpreting and understanding controlled research results and how the sample might respond at your specific location.

The information presented in the article is incomplete making it difficult to understand. I don't know the quantative difference between a winter hardiness of 1 and 9. Having said that and relying on the summary table, Elbon is the least winter hardy (9) and Arrostook the most (1).

Time-to-heading and plant height might be interesting to you given you stated requirements. Elbon and Aroostook are about the same for both characteristics. Both head early meaning the vegetative stops early...but plant heights for both are middling...not the tallest nor the shortest. My guess is this means you'll be rolling termination somewhat early.

Then there all the other niggling details like soil fertility, temperatures and rainfall amounts. So, I don't know.

 

[yoderjac]

When we talk about varieties of WR for deer, a phrase my old boss was fond of comes to mind: "Polishing a Turd". It reminds me of the guy who measured a football field using a ruler and decided it was actually 100.00000023 yards long.

While there are significant differences in how different cereal grains perform under different conditions, I have yet to find a cereal grain that deer will use in preference to others in the long haul. Each seems to have a slight temporal preference at most around here.

My preference in WR variety is VNS as it is less expensive than specific varieties I have available.

Now...if I could only find a variety of WR with a really big buck on the bag, it might change my mind.

 

[Foggy47]

Classic example of the difficulties of interpreting and understanding controlled research results and how the sample might respond at your specific location.

The information presented in the article is incomplete making it difficult to understand. I don't know the quantative difference between a winter hardiness of 1 and 9. Having said that and relying on the summary table, Elbon is the least winter hardy (9) and Arrostook the most (1).

Time-to-heading and plant height might be interesting to you given you stated requirements. Elbon and Aroostook are about the same for both characteristics. Both head early meaning the vegetative stops early...but plant heights for both are middling...not the tallest nor the shortest. My guess is this means you'll be rolling termination somewhat early.

Then there all the other niggling details like soil fertility, temperatures and rainfall amounts. So, I don't know.

Yep. I agree there are lots of ways to interpret what was done in those field tests. In the past I had read that Aroostrook was very much a later maturing rye.....which may help my situation....as I would like to defer doing ANYTHING until mid July. Then roll the rye and terminate some areas with Glyphosate to prepare those areas (with clover underneath) for a decent planting of brassica seeds (PTT / DER / Collards / Radish). Then plant take care of the remaining clover via mowing in late July and August......before more Rye in the following fall. Rinse and repeat.

 

[FarmerDan]

When we talk about varieties of WR for deer, a phrase my old boss was fond of comes to mind: "Polishing a Turd". It reminds me of the guy who measured a football field using a ruler and decided it was actually 100.00000023 yards long.

While there are significant differences in how different cereal grains perform under different conditions, I have yet to find a cereal grain that deer will use in preference to others in the long haul. Each seems to have a slight temporal preference at most around here.

My preference in WR variety is VNS as it is less expensive than specific varieties I have available.

Now...if I could only find a variety of WR with a really big buck on the bag, it might change my mind.

Many times the joy is in actually exploring different topics and subjects regardless of the form of the substance. It's called intellectual curiosity. If they are turds, so be it. If it's a turd this time then next time it might be a diamond.

 

[bigboreblr]

A review by organic farmers might be more insightful. Usually teviews of seed varieties have more comments. Like early growth or info of what might cause a variance to a typical result. MAny tests shw height at certain times, and times of seed growth. Boot stage dough etc....

Ive seen some research from cornell in NY about using rye without adding additonal fertilizer. However, many tests are done on rotation of crops which have fertlizer added.

A few things that you might take interst in is drought resistance, cold weather growth, and possibly the success of volunteer seeding.

Where specific varieties might come in handy is more torublesome areas. Lower spots more prone to flood.

The difference in price of a VNS vs a specific variety is likely the price of a bag of fertilizer per acre. Putting down a bag of potash per acre would likely make a much better result per acre than using fancy seeds.

Pairing up with an organic or grass fed beef or poultry farmer might be worth you money and in some cases leasing the land, your time. Let someone else plant your land.

VNS can be more than you think. Localy sourced seed by a reputable farmer can sort out alot of guesswork. Some farmers repeat themselves, some look more closely at what they produce and how to make it beter next year.

Against the grain of no till grain, maybe consider purchasing a subsoiler and running a 1/3 of the feilds a year. Improving drainage in trouble areas and thinning timber near field edges on southern sdes.

 

[SD51555]

If you really want to sky dive down a rabbit hole looking for the best rye, add improved triticales to the scope.

I'm testing a couple different ones at my place right now.

 

[Foggy47]

^^ With the sandy soil I have.....about the last thing I need is to sub-soil the land here. I can run a garden hose for hours.....and never make a puddle....lol. The water simply passes through the sand here. One of the HUgE reasons I do no-till is to keep some roots in the ground....and preserve moisture. IT IS WORKING. NO TILLAGE IS NEEDED OR WANTED HERE.

I've logged my land some 5 years back.....so thinning timber is in the rear view mirror. My plots are N/S orientated to catch sun most of the day. It's working.

Buying seed off the farm (bin run seed) is a great way to introduce weeds to your land.....IME. BTDT Maybe somewhat better when you know the farmer......but not too real in these parts. The JPS's here mostly go with their bin-run products and cling to old methods of "farming". Not clean seed IMO. This is logging and pasture country. Not very much cash-crop farming here in the traditional sense....exceptions of course. Poultry farms are far away from here. Even buying fertilizer here is an effort. This is northern Minnesota.....TIMBERLAND for the most part.

Buying a known variety of rye seed is not necessarily "fancy seed". It may cost an extra few dollars / bu. to buy from a reputable seed source and eliminate some of the variables of buying a bin run product. IMO.

A sign my dad had in his office comes to mind:
"If you want good clean oats....you must pay a fair price. But if you can be satisfied with oats that have already passed through our horses......well, those come a little cheaper".

 

[Foggy47]

When we talk about varieties of WR for deer, a phrase my old boss was fond of comes to mind: "Polishing a Turd". It reminds me of the guy who measured a football field using a ruler and decided it was actually 100.00000023 yards long.

While there are significant differences in how different cereal grains perform under different conditions, I have yet to find a cereal grain that deer will use in preference to others in the long haul. Each seems to have a slight temporal preference at most around here.

My preference in WR variety is VNS as it is less expensive than specific varieties I have available.

Now...if I could only find a variety of WR with a really big buck on the bag, it might change my mind.

Well...if it was all about nutritional value of the rye "crop" what you are saying may have some value. That is my last concern actually. I am not overly worried about the nutritional values.....as most of the rye talked about here will have pretty good food values....and I have other things going on to provide a more preferred forage for much of that time. Although rye is the last thing to go dormant in fall....and the first thing to get green after a TOUGH winter here in the north. But you would not know about that....would you? Don't confuse farming tactics in zone 8 with those in zone 3. It's not all the same!

What I am looking for is a rye grain that will make it's seed at a later date in summer thus preserving it's weed suppressing values and produce a large amount of bi-mass for fertilizer values for my brassica and clover crops.....as well as keep some active roots going for the fungi......and to improve my organic matter for better soils. It also would then provide much needed fawning cover from the many predators here.....whom are very much hungry for venison each spring / summer.....and follow does around just to get the afterbirth and fawns. But I am sure you know that too? Right??

Have you bothered to read the test results by REAL Iowa farmers??....or are you only wanting to snipe at someones efforts to find the holy grail for his operation? I should know better than to post a question like this on a forum. lol. Sorry I brought it up.

 

[Foggy47]

Classic example of the difficulties of interpreting and understanding controlled research results and how the sample might respond at your specific location.

The information presented in the article is incomplete making it difficult to understand. I don't know the quantative difference between a winter hardiness of 1 and 9. Having said that and relying on the summary table, Elbon is the least winter hardy (9) and Arrostook the most (1).

Time-to-heading and plant height might be interesting to you given you stated requirements. Elbon and Aroostook are about the same for both characteristics. Both head early meaning the vegetative stops early...but plant heights for both are middling...not the tallest nor the shortest. My guess is this means you'll be rolling termination somewhat early.

Then there all the other niggling details like soil fertility, temperatures and rainfall amounts. So, I don't know.

Thanks for a thoughtful answer FarmerDan. I always appreciate your inputs. Just for farmer laughs...been said: "you can always tell a farmer - you just can't tell him much". LOL....also works with loggers, Germans and more. Grin.

Gotta agree that everyone will have somewhat different results based on so many variables in dirt and past practices, weather, and more. But, at some point, you gotta go with some set of values or experiences with different seeds. Kinda why seed companies have so many test plots in local areas....no?

 

[Telemark]

I haven't been able to choose my rye varieties yet. I was a bit late to the game last year, so I took what was available, but I k ow it was suited to the local conditions where I was planting it.

Going forward I would definitely like to find a variety with the best winter hardiness and longest time to maturity. I'm in a similar situation to you, and not too far away geographically. I would like to be able to plant a little earlier than most, have good fawning habitat, and then knock it down and do it all over again. Maybe I will try to source some specific varieties this year. Only bummer is the shipping costs on sacks of rye.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Thanks for a thoughtful answer FarmerDan. I always appreciate your inputs. Just for farmer laughs...been said: "you can always tell a farmer - you just can't tell him much". LOL....also works with loggers, Germans and more. Grin.

Gotta agree that everyone will have somewhat different results based on so many variables in dirt and past practices, weather, and more. But, at some point, you gotta go with some set of values or experiences with different seeds. Kinda why seed companies have so many test plots in local areas....no?

.......also works with beekeepers.....

bill

 

[sandbur]

Foggy, why not do some side by side trials with 2-3 rye varieties.

I did that with 3 deer oats and bin run oats about two decades back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gunfun13]

I have always planted some portion of my plots into VNS rye and it has never been a great hunting season attraction. Hammered in spring but at best just nibbled on during season. After my brassicas failed last year, I put every plot but one into Aroostook rye, the one was triticale as an experiment, at the recommendation of a few other habitat managers in Michigan. My plot activity was as good as it had ever been right up until they were covered with snow and they completely lost interest.

I terminated in early June which I thought was early enough to prevent viable seed, but that turned out to be wrong. I had tons of volunteer rye germinate when I put in my brassicas in early August. I thought there was no way deer in my area (S. Mich ag region) would eat rye germinated that early, but I let it go as they didn't seem to be interfering with the brassicas too much and I figured it was good for the soil. Was again proved wrong and it's all fairway short as I type this.

The one triticale plot was left as just pure volunteer triticale. It's also been hammered.

Would be very interesting to try some side by side comparisons between VNS, aroostook and triticale.

 

[Foggy47]

Well that is what these Iowa tests were to have done.....a comparison of 5 different rye varieties in several locations. As far as VNS goes.....how do you repeat the following year with a good result of an unknown variety??.....if you don't know what variety you planted in the first place???? That is like the blind leading the blind. NO???

 

[yoderjac]

Many times the joy is in actually exploring different topics and subjects regardless of the form of the substance. It's called intellectual curiosity. If they are turds, so be it. If it's a turd this time then next time it might be a diamond

No doubt about that. I've gone down many, many, rabbit holes for each diamond I've found. (Didn't know it was a turd till I went down the rabbit hole a long time ago).

 

[yoderjac]

Well...if it was all about nutritional value of the rye "crop" what you are saying may have some value. That is my last concern actually. I am not overly worried about the nutritional values.....as most of the rye talked about here will have pretty good food values....and I have other things going on to provide a more preferred forage for much of that time. Although rye is the last thing to go dormant in fall....and the first thing to get green after a TOUGH winter here in the north. But you would not know about that....would you? Don't confuse farming tactics in zone 8 with those in zone 3. It's not all the same!

What I am looking for is a rye grain that will make it's seed at a later date in summer thus preserving it's weed suppressing values and produce a large amount of bi-mass for fertilizer values for my brassica and clover crops.....as well as keep some active roots going for the fungi......and to improve my organic matter for better soils. It also would then provide much needed fawning cover from the many predators here.....whom are very much hungry for venison each spring / summer.....and follow does around just to get the afterbirth and fawns. But I am sure you know that too? Right??

Have you bothered to read the test results by REAL Iowa farmers??....or are you only wanting to snipe at someones efforts to find the holy grail for his operation? I should know better than to post a question like this on a forum. lol. Sorry I brought it up.

Yes, I read the results. Your initial post was not clear that you were lookin for the specific characteristic of late seed production. My post was speaking to the value of different WR varieties for deer management, not for supporting specific techniques for planting. WR is just as important in zone 8. He it provides food through much of the winter and is also an early green-up in the spring. I wasn't trying to snipe. I was trying to suggest (not just for you, but for new folks) that we often spend way too much time an resources trying going down rabbit holes that may be applicable to commercial farming operations but have little benefit for deer management. Perhaps my attempt at humor was poorly chosen. I apologize for any offence taken.

 

[Foggy47]

^ Thanks Jan. I guess I was not in a good place when writing what I did. A bit much on my plate recently. I would not have to snipe back. My apologies too.

 

[yoderjac]

^ Thanks Jan. I guess I was not in a good place when writing what I did. A bit much on my plate recently. I would not have to snipe back. My apologies too.

No sweat! We much more often see misunderstandings spiral into bad things. It is encouraging shake hands and move on!

 

[bigboreblr]

So, the local farmers co-op has bags of VNS seed rye for $20. The local farmer opened up a feed store last year. They got bags of ...rye... for 1/2 the price. Likely ran throug the dryer.

I am broadcast seeding, so it's hard to tell germination like bare spots in your drill passes. Seeming to grow both up north at camp and at my house though.

Commercial farmer reports are worth reading. Found out added potash is the best out of the npk's for several grains. Did one spot 1/2 80lbs/acre of potash and the other left alone from last years 6-24-24. Very noticable difference.