Let's discuss the best cereal rye varieties.

[paleopoint]

Point taken on hipchecking the thread away from rye. Mea culpa.
But, WW ...HAD been mentioned. So that's my CYA.
----------------------------------------

I do like this observation: "While there are some differences in cereal grains, they generally all fill the same niche.....specifics may depend on your location, specific methods used, and objectives."

I think that is traction-full. I quite agree. And too, as someone has already observed --- there is this belief that if your soil is thin or poor-ish ----rye is a better choice. Better soil....go with wheat.

Lastly, this query: "Paleopoint, what do you plant your wheat with?"

I broadcast it on ground that has had some sort of summer crop on it that was brushhogged....then I lightly till it in and packed. I do not fertilize my wheat or my rye.
--------------------------------------------------------------

In the past my go-to summer crop has often been buckwheat. But, after this years' experience with grain sorghum I may switch to grain sorghum for my summer 'cover'.

Here's what happened: I had put in a half acre of that sorghum out of curiosity. I had never grown it before. It came in beautifully and gave me a beautiful crop with prolific and big seed heads. (broadcast in on May 19th, with heavy urea application, then lightly tilled, and packed).

So I'm a happy camper throughout August and the first part of September. And then........

.....and then, the deer, turkeys, squirrels, and assorted birds ate it all. In a matter of days.....less than 10-days. All of it.

So much for my winter carry-over for deer.

So now I'm mulling the idea of putting in the sorghum in May......let the critters have it through September then broadcast into it winter wheat or rye around October 1st, then brushhog it, and pack the hell out of it.

At least one half-acre plot is gonna get that experiment in 2023.

 

[yoderjac]

Point taken on hipchecking the thread away from rye. Mea culpa.
But, WW ...HAD been mentioned. So that's my CYA.
----------------------------------------

I do like this observation: "While there are some differences in cereal grains, they generally all fill the same niche.....specifics may depend on your location, specific methods used, and objectives."

I think that is traction-full. I quite agree. And too, as someone has already observed --- there is this belief that if your soil is thin or poor-ish ----rye is a better choice. Better soil....go with wheat.

Lastly, this query: "Paleopoint, what do you plant your wheat with?"

I broadcast it on ground that has had some sort of summer crop on it that was brushhogged....then I lightly till it in and packed. I do not fertilize my wheat or my rye.
--------------------------------------------------------------

In the past my go-to summer crop has often been buckwheat. But, after this years' experience with grain sorghum I may switch to grain sorghum for my summer 'cover'.

Here's what happened: I had put in a half acre of that sorghum out of curiosity. I had never grown it before. It came in beautifully and gave me a beautiful crop with prolific and big seed heads. (broadcast in on May 19th, with heavy urea application, then lightly tilled, and packed).

So I'm a happy camper throughout August and the first part of September. And then........

.....and then, the deer, turkeys, squirrels, and assorted birds ate it all. In a matter of days.....less than 10-days. All of it.

So much for my winter carry-over for deer.

So now I'm mulling the idea of putting in the sorghum in May......let the critters have it through September then broadcast into it winter wheat or rye around October 1st, then brushhog it, and pack the hell out of it.

At least one half-acre plot is gonna get that experiment in 2023.

There are other reasons related to methods where WR shines. For example, tillage has some real downsides in the long run and deer managers are particularly well positioned to take advantage of min-till and not till methods. WR germinates much better (at least on my soils) when surface broadcast. Because it does not require high fertility, it, along with other wise crop selection in mixes and rotations, allows one to move to a zero commercial fertilizer model. This has huge cost benefits which can be put back into more acreage of food plots or other habitat projects. Crops that thrive in lower fertility conditions like WR and Buckwheat, along with clover, can form a cornerstone of a program. So, even with better soil, WW may not be a better choice than WR depending on the situation.

 

[paleopoint]

As long as we are talking rye & wheat, here is what I saw today on my farm.

We had 30" of snow over this past weekend. And today was the first day I could get out to do a walkabout on my ground. I was particularly interested in observing the deer usage of the brassicas, and the various rye and wheat plots.

Brassicas.....PTT, GFR, and Winifred....were of particular concern as they were virtually untouched through November 15th. Something we had never experienced before. After the first frost those plants are heavily heavily grazed down. But .....this year we didn't get a hard frost until last week. So I wanted to see if finally those plants would get the pressure. (They did, somewhat. It is better....but still not like prior years.)

But more specifically to grains. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread my local deer seemingly prefer winter wheat over rye.
That appears to be the case again.
Today there was far more usage of the wheat than the rye.
That's not to say that there wasn't some usage of the rye.....there certainly was.
But not to the degree I saw in the wheat.

Now, I am confident that if that wheat was not there.....the deer would have been quite happy with the rye.
And maybe if they graze down the wheat....they'll then graze down the rye.
But there's a lot of wheat. So they better get to work.

FWIW.

 

[SD51555]

I got a look at my rye plot on Saturday. I'm getting the most attention there of all my plots, and that's up by the road. I was surprised to see that. My main plots in the back that are clovers and broadleaves hardly had any tracks in them. They were pretty well used up by the time the snow flew though. Probably not a ton there worth the digging, at least not when there's 7" rye up front.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Point taken here. But then again.....perhaps there become too much of an allopathic effect on other fall planted crops in a mix with the rye......and that rye may suppress their growth? I've had problems getting other things like AW Peas and Brassica's planted with my (Elbon) Winter Rye. Not sure if this is the case? .....but plausible?

I have just read where triticale has a lesser allopathic effect than winter rye.....something to consider.

Did you try broadcasting rye into other crops this year or just drill? I still think there's a good chance with your improving soil you could fall plant brassicas, clover, peas, oats, etc in July/August and just surface broadcast rye around labor day or a little later.

My soil is certainly a lot different than yours but that's what i did. The majority of the oats, peas, beans, and brassicas had been eaten by the time rifle season showed up but i have a thick field of rye that was broadcasted around labor day that's still getting hammered.

My stepdad is on the tillage wagon and primarily plants monoculture plots on the sandy grand rapids area property. He gets good germination but it's prone to dry out. Last summer was great for moisture and the brassica plots looked fantastic but got crushed by deer early and now there's a bunch of bare dirt. I'm going to broadcast rye and clover over all of his brassica plots next fall to try to make him a believer. Hopefully i'm not made a fool of surface broadcasting into the sand.

 

[omicron1792]

 

[Foggy47]

Did you try broadcasting rye into other crops this year or just drill? I still think there's a good chance with your improving soil you could fall plant brassicas, clover, peas, oats, etc in July/August and just surface broadcast rye around labor day or a little later.

My soil is certainly a lot different than yours but that's what i did. The majority of the oats, peas, beans, and brassicas had been eaten by the time rifle season showed up but i have a thick field of rye that was broadcasted around labor day that's still getting hammered.

My stepdad is on the tillage wagon and primarily plants monoculture plots on the sandy grand rapids area property. He gets good germination but it's prone to dry out. Last summer was great for moisture and the brassica plots looked fantastic but got crushed by deer early and now there's a bunch of bare dirt. I'm going to broadcast rye and clover over all of his brassica plots next fall to try to make him a believer. Hopefully i'm not made a fool of surface broadcasting into the sand.

I got some brassica to grow in my clover plots where I had churned up the soil pretty good with my flail mower. (it was actually a poor setting that ended up with some "tillage" in the plot......and it was real god dirt in that area. In other areas I mowed the clover real short.....but it just bounced back quickly outcompeting the braisca I had planted. Next year I plan to either till some strips in the centers of my clover plots and / or kill it with a high dose of roundup.

Likely I wil do this in Mid July in order to get a good stand of brasica. I drilled ry and I broadcast rye as well into all existing plots. It came in well were drilled.....but not very well where broadcast.

I think I now know how to proceed......if the rains co-operate. I know I need to knock that clover back t get the brassica to take hold. I'm also planning to include more annual clovers in the time to come instead of the longer-term white clovers.

Depending how ambitious I get.....I may do a few rows of corn in much the same way (plot center areas) to see if I can get more fall attractive crops. Some of my deer left me for greener pastures in the cornfields to the south of my property later in the fall.

 

[SD51555]

I got some brassica to grow in my clover plots where I had churned up the soil pretty good with my flail mower. (it was actually a poor setting that ended up with some "tillage" in the plot......and it was real god dirt in that area. In other areas I mowed the clover real short.....but it just bounced back quickly outcompeting the braisca I had planted. Next year I plan to either till some strips in the centers of my clover plots and / or kill it with a high dose of roundup.

Likely I wil do this in Mid July in order to get a good stand of brasica. I drilled ry and I broadcast rye as well into all existing plots. It came in well were drilled.....but not very well where broadcast.

I think I now know how to proceed......if the rains co-operate. I know I need to knock that clover back t get the brassica to take hold. I'm also planning to include more annual clovers in the time to come instead of the longer-term white clovers.

Depending how ambitious I get.....I may do a few rows of corn in much the same way (plot center areas) to see if I can get more fall attractive crops. Some of my deer left me for greener pastures in the cornfields to the south of my property later in the fall.

Did the food you had make it all the way through gun season? I made it all the way to first snow with enough food, and then the snow just slammed the brakes on the whole outfit.

After what I saw with the exclusion cage this year, I may hang up brassicas altogether and just focus on pushing as much chicory and plantain as possible instead.

Did you gird up and throw yourself into the triticale world yet?

Triticale – TriCal

Triticale is a highly versatile cereal forage for grazing, silage, hay or as a cover crop. It emerges rapidly from fall plantings, produces copious quantities of fall and winter forage for grazing …

tricalforage.com

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Did the food you had make it all the way through gun season? I made it all the way to first snow with enough food, and then the snow just slammed the brakes on the whole outfit.

After what I saw with the exclusion cage this year, I may hang up brassicas altogether and just focus on pushing as much chicory and plantain as possible instead.

Did you gird up and throw yourself into the triticale world yet?

Triticale – TriCal

Triticale is a highly versatile cereal forage for grazing, silage, hay or as a cover crop. It emerges rapidly from fall plantings, produces copious quantities of fall and winter forage for grazing …

tricalforage.com

Which triticale variety do you think is the best fit? Gunner looks like a good option.

Think I'll lean on rye heavy for allelopathic properties still with the newer plots but tempted to maybe throw 75/25 rye/awnless triticale blend for the early sept over seeding.

 

[omicron1792]

Which triticale variety do you think is the best fit? Gunner looks like a good option.

Think I'll lean on rye heavy for allelopathic properties still with the newer plots but tempted to maybe throw 75/25 rye/awnless triticale blend for the early sept over seeding.

Been reading how the deer will devour the awnless wheat heads, so gonna try awnless triticale. Saw a pretty good price from a company today.

Forage FX 1001 Winter Triticale Seed from Welter Seed & Honey Co. - Onslow, Iowa

welterseed.com

 

[SD51555]

Which triticale variety do you think is the best fit? Gunner looks like a good option.

Think I'll lean on rye heavy for allelopathic properties still with the newer plots but tempted to maybe throw 75/25 rye/awnless triticale blend for the early sept over seeding.

I don't know enough about them yet to even guess. I've got a few in the ground now, but they didn't get off to a great start. I also keep changing my ideas, so I don't even know what I'm trying to solve some days.

I do know you've got to be careful with the varieties though. Some of them are warm country triticales, and some are cold country triticales. Sourcing is the biggest pain. I had to buy direct from a farmer on the North Dakota/Canadian border to get a few bushels to try. That took nearly 6 weeks to get lined up.

 

[Foggy47]

I got some brassica to grow in my clover plots where I had churned up the soil pretty good with my flail mower. (it was actually a poor setting that ended up with some "tillage" in the plot......and it was real god dirt in that area. In other areas I mowed the clover real short.....but it just bounced back quickly outcompeting the braisca I had planted. Next year I plan to either till some strips in the centers of my clover plots and / or kill it with a high dose of roundup.

Likely I wil do this in Mid July in order to get a good stand of brasica. I drilled ry and I broadcast rye as well into all existing plots. It came in well were drilled.....but not very well where broadcast.

I think I now know how to proceed......if the rains co-operate. I know I need to knock that clover back t get the brassica to take hold. I'm also planning to include more annual clovers in the time to come instead of the longer-term white clovers.

Depending how ambitious I get.....I may do a few rows of corn in much the same way (plot center areas) to see if I can get more fall attractive crops. Some of my deer left me for greener pastures in the cornfields to the south of my property later in the fall.

Did the food you had make it all the way through gun season? I made it all the way to first snow with enough food, and then the snow just slammed the brakes on the whole outfit.

After what I saw with the exclusion cage this year, I may hang up brassicas altogether and just focus on pushing as much chicory and plantain as possible instead.

Did you gird up and throw yourself into the triticale world yet?

Triticale – TriCal

Triticale is a highly versatile cereal forage for grazing, silage, hay or as a cover crop. It emerges rapidly from fall plantings, produces copious quantities of fall and winter forage for grazing …

tricalforage.com

I dont really need any of that seed until August next year. But....knowing some specialty seeds can get in tight supply.......I suppose I will pull the trigger on my triticale in Jan or so. I need to talk to Welters on the avaiailablity on these seeds for next season....or perhaps source it through one of the co-ops? Freight becomes a factor to consider. I suppose I will need at least 600 lbs of seeds and will use rye on some other areas.

I think LaCrosse Seed and Albert Lea Seeds offer some varieties too. I think I could get the Albert Lea Seeds picked up by a friend that goes there.

 

[Foggy47]

News Flash! I was looking at Triticale on the LaCrosse Seeds site. LaCrosse Seeds just purchased Deer Creek Seed Company on Oct 31. Not sure how many buy from Deer Creek or what difference it will make.

They and Albert Lea seeds also have some Winter Triticale that is Zone 3 hardy and awnless varieities. Looks like you better order by????? Dunno.....but the better varieties are sold out. I'm not sure if you can buy 2023 harvested seeds in August of 2023? Anybody?

Finding seeds that are winter hardy to my zone 3 is crucial to success. That is a big feature that winter Rye has going for it.....along with a somewhat lower seed price. I'm about 90% sold on the triticale over rye......but still making up this stubborn mind I have. grin.

 

[Foggy47]

News Flash! I was looking at Triticale on the LaCrosse Seeds site. LaCrosse Seeds just purchased Deer Creek Seed Company on Oct 31. Not sure how many buy from Deer Creek or what difference it will make.

They and Albert Lea seeds also have some Winter Triticale that is Zone 3 hardy and awnless varieities. Looks like you better order by????? Dunno.....but the better varieties are sold out. I'm not sure if you can buy 2023 harvested seeds in August of 2023? Anybody?

Finding seeds that are winter hardy to my zone 3 is crucial to success. That is a big feature that winter Rye has going for it.....along with a somewhat lower seed price. The biggest value of the Rye has been the allopathic properties of the rye and the mulch for soil armor and moisture preservation in my sand. That has worked wonders for me. I'm about 90% sold on the triticale over rye......but still making up this stubborn mind I have. grin.

Also have seen this regarding the allopathic properties.......

OVERVIEW​

Winter triticale is a cross between winter rye and winter wheat. The resulting triticale is typically superior to rye or wheat when used in silage, hay, or pasture. It can produce 25 – 30% more straw than rye when harvested shortly before the boot stage. Recommended planting dates are similar to winter wheat, but the colder the climate, the earlier it should be planted in the fall. Winter triticale tends to fall in between winter wheat and winter rye in terms of cold hardiness. Triticale may have minor allelopathic effects in the soil which can hinder germination of small seeds, but it is not as strong as the allelopathic effects of winter rye.

The other consideration is to add some Hairy Vetch as a means to build some nitrogen for the crops to follow.

 

[Catscratch]

Some of ya might find this read interesting.

Triticale attributes make for sound feed option | The Western Producer

LETHBRIDGE — Perennial forage acres are declining across Western Canada and because of the expense of replacing them, farmers leave them in longer and the

www.producer.com

 

[bueller]

News Flash! I was looking at Triticale on the LaCrosse Seeds site. LaCrosse Seeds just purchased Deer Creek Seed Company on Oct 31. Not sure how many buy from Deer Creek or what difference it will make.

They and Albert Lea seeds also have some Winter Triticale that is Zone 3 hardy and awnless varieities. Looks like you better order by????? Dunno.....but the better varieties are sold out. I'm not sure if you can buy 2023 harvested seeds in August of 2023? Anybody?

Finding seeds that are winter hardy to my zone 3 is crucial to success. That is a big feature that winter Rye has going for it.....along with a somewhat lower seed price. I'm about 90% sold on the triticale over rye......but still making up this stubborn mind I have. grin.

I've been using Guardian Winter Rye from Lacrosse Seeds because that's what a local place has been stocking.

 

[SD51555]

News Flash! I was looking at Triticale on the LaCrosse Seeds site. LaCrosse Seeds just purchased Deer Creek Seed Company on Oct 31. Not sure how many buy from Deer Creek or what difference it will make.

They and Albert Lea seeds also have some Winter Triticale that is Zone 3 hardy and awnless varieities. Looks like you better order by????? Dunno.....but the better varieties are sold out. I'm not sure if you can buy 2023 harvested seeds in August of 2023? Anybody?

Finding seeds that are winter hardy to my zone 3 is crucial to success. That is a big feature that winter Rye has going for it.....along with a somewhat lower seed price. I'm about 90% sold on the triticale over rye......but still making up this stubborn mind I have. grin.

I wouldn’t count on being able to get new crop until next summer. I don’t think they clean and bag it until closer to planting time.

Albert Lea had a problem with their trit last fall and had to reclean all of it. They may have a ton left due to how late it got out the door.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk