Cereal Rye vs Wheat Question

[yoderjac]

Ok valid point but isn’t that assuming that the poop was from a nitrogen rich plant?

It would be really fun to study a food plot like this. Say a small 1/8 acre. Pull a soil test before planting and then yearly just to compare the N levels. Very curious as to how much they would change if the plot was constantly grazed down.

You are going to need a very specialized (and expensive) soil test as most don't measure N. Nitrogen can be quite volatile. Also keep in mind that as you observe your tiny plot's response to the 10-10-10 is that legumes seem to be pretty responsive to K and P.

Just a few more thoughts to pass on. With a 1/8 acre plot, there is no impact on deer, but consider the approach on a large enough scale to matter to the deer herd. Suppose I did intense food plotting planting significant acreage, fertilizing, and spraying weeds to maximize yield on a large scale. Sound pretty good from a deer herd perspective at first glance. But then, after 10 years, I get sick and can't do it any more and stop. Or, I sell the land and the next guy does nothing. Now what happens to the deer herd? Is it kind of like providing supplemental feed up north for years and then stopping?

Those are some of the things I thought about along the way. What I'm looking to do it to restore the soil health and bend nature to favor my target animals, deer and turkey. Greater acreage and lower intensity. More mix of crops and a healthy mix of weeds. The idea is that while improving the herd health over time, if I stop, things will move from fields through early succession to mature timber slowly over time allowing the herd to adapt to the changes.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[omicron1792]

Ok valid point but isn’t that assuming that the poop was from a nitrogen rich plant?

It would be really fun to study a food plot like this. Say a small 1/8 acre. Pull a soil test before planting and then yearly just to compare the N levels. Very curious as to how much they would change if the plot was constantly grazed down.

His soil test dominates with no synthetics for 10 years.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I am big on winter rye over winter wheat. Although both serve a purpose for me, and I use both when I need them. Winter rye does a great job as a companion crop, with clover, or about anything. It fills in the voids where weeds would normally grow, it uses a lot of Nitrogen, and scavenges other minerals from deep in the soil. It also repels certain weeds from growing, you can plant it in August, it will grow until winter hits, then when the snow melts, it will grow more and usually be the first thing to green up, blocking more weeds, and feeding the deer. You can then leave it mature, and replant your mid summer, late summer crop into it, and roll it, or mow it onto the fresh seeds. It really is a plant that gives year around.

Winter wheat does use some nitrogen, and will grow in the fall, and come back up in the spring, but it wont use as much nitrogen, or repel weeds, or fill in really thick like winter rye, if you let it mature, it really isnt much to plant back into in the summer. But, if you are planning on planting a spring crop, then winter wheat is a much better choice to plant the fall before.

I have pretty much switched to a plan of starting in the spring, with winter rye planted the previous fall, I let the winter rye mature, it will get about 5 feet tall, then July 4th weekend I will plant my radish, turnips, or what ever bulbed seed I want in the plot that year, and roll, or mow it onto that seed, and give it a month or so to establish, then reseed winter rye into the already growing, 4-6 inch tall radishes, turnips, etc.. and come fall, the deer will have bulbs, and winter rye to eat, all winter they can dig and get the bulbs, and winter rye. Come spring the winter rye will be the first growing and block other cool season weeds from growing, then let it mature again and repeat. It build a lot of OM, and keeps weeds at bey. Winter wheat, I would have to spray, or cultivate to get rid of the weeds every summer.


I have 3 plots that are between 1/3 acre and 3/4 acres, for a total of about 2 acres. I know my plots wont feed the deer year round, but it will give them some much needed snacks when they need it the most, fall, winter, and spring in my area. On smaller properties, you add in all of your neighbors food lots, and everyone is planting about 10% of their land to food plots, it adds up, and helps them with some high protein food during their stress periods.

 

[yoderjac]

His soil test dominates with no synthetics for 10 years.

This is a good video. They do a pretty good job of bringing things down to a level the average food plotter can understand and apply.

 

[Foggy47]

I am big on winter rye over winter wheat. Although both serve a purpose for me, and I use both when I need them. Winter rye does a great job as a companion crop, with clover, or about anything. It fills in the voids where weeds would normally grow, it uses a lot of Nitrogen, and scavenges other minerals from deep in the soil. It also repels certain weeds from growing, you can plant it in August, it will grow until winter hits, then when the snow melts, it will grow more and usually be the first thing to green up, blocking more weeds, and feeding the deer. You can then leave it mature, and replant your mid summer, late summer crop into it, and roll it, or mow it onto the fresh seeds. It really is a plant that gives year around.

Winter wheat does use some nitrogen, and will grow in the fall, and come back up in the spring, but it wont use as much nitrogen, or repel weeds, or fill in really thick like winter rye, if you let it mature, it really isnt much to plant back into in the summer. But, if you are planning on planting a spring crop, then winter wheat is a much better choice to plant the fall before.

I have pretty much switched to a plan of starting in the spring, with winter rye planted the previous fall, I let the winter rye mature, it will get about 5 feet tall, then July 4th weekend I will plant my radish, turnips, or what ever bulbed seed I want in the plot that year, and roll, or mow it onto that seed, and give it a month or so to establish, then reseed winter rye into the already growing, 4-6 inch tall radishes, turnips, etc.. and come fall, the deer will have bulbs, and winter rye to eat, all winter they can dig and get the bulbs, and winter rye. Come spring the winter rye will be the first growing and block other cool season weeds from growing, then let it mature again and repeat. It build a lot of OM, and keeps weeds at bey. Winter wheat, I would have to spray, or cultivate to get rid of the weeds every summer.


I have 3 plots that are between 1/3 acre and 3/4 acres, for a total of about 2 acres. I know my plots wont feed the deer year round, but it will give them some much needed snacks when they need it the most, fall, winter, and spring in my area. On smaller properties, you add in all of your neighbors food lots, and everyone is planting about 10% of their land to food plots, it adds up, and helps them with some high protein food during their stress periods.

^ Good post and I am with your ideas in most areas. couple questions. Do you have any clover mixed in with your winter rye crop?.....or is it a straight rye crop for the spring / summer season?? Does it stay relatively weed free in July through September?? I think your plan has allot of merit....but I also get concerned with any monoculture crops. I do somewhat the same as you here.....but plan to also use clovers (3 or 4 types) in that rye crop for the spring, summer and fall seasons.....then set the clover back before doing my fall rinse and repeat plantings.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

All my plots have clover, and winter rye planted in them, only one of my plots do I add radish and turnips into the same mix.

 

[Foggy47]

All my plots have clover, and winter rye planted in them, only one of my plots do I add radish and turnips into the same mix.

OK....that makes more sense to me.

 

[Tree Spud]

^ Good post and I am with your ideas in most areas. couple questions. Do you have any clover mixed in with your winter rye crop?.....or is it a straight rye crop for the spring / summer season?? Does it stay relatively weed free in July through September?? I think your plan has allot of merit....but I also get concerned with any monoculture crops. I do somewhat the same as you here.....but plan to also use clovers (3 or 4 types) in that rye crop for the spring, summer and fall seasons.....then set the clover back before doing my fall rinse and repeat plantings.

i always mix medium red clover in the fall when I over seed with WR. I will also add some white & ladino to the mix. This is spring green up in late April. This was only 50 ;bs/acre of WR. You can easily do up to 100 lbs/acre of WR.

 

[Foggy47]

^ Yep. Setting-up my Tar River drill tomorrow and plan to put these seeds into my drill: (I already have a nice stand of red and white clovers now)

Large box: All 8 acres
100 lbs / acre Elbon W. Rye
5 lbs / acre A. W. Peas
5 lbs / acre soy beans

Small Box: (9 lbs mix). All 8 acres
5 lbs / acre Medium Red Clover
2 lbs / acre Alice White Clover
2 lbs / acre Ladino White Clover

.....and adding to the small box above in select areas (Prox 3 to 4 acres) with this mix added to the above in strips of short clipped clover (9 lbs / mix )
2 lbs / acre PTT
2 lbs/ acre DER
5 lbs / Acre GH Radish


I plan to wait a week or so for a high probability of rain in the forecast.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have several bags of urea to put down on my radish and turnip plot. I will also add some to my chicory plot. I just need to wait for rain. We got rain today, but I had previous plans yesterday.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

^ Yep. Setting-up my Tar River drill tomorrow and plan to put these seeds into my drill: (I already have a nice stand of red and white clovers now)

Large box: All 8 acres
100 lbs / acre Elbon W. Rye
5 lbs / acre A. W. Peas
5 lbs / acre soy beans

Small Box: (9 lbs mix). All 8 acres
5 lbs / acre Medium Red Clover
2 lbs / acre Alice White Clover
2 lbs / acre Ladino White Clover

.....and adding to the small box above in select areas (Prox 3 to 4 acres) with this mix added to the above in strips of short clipped clover (9 lbs / mix )
2 lbs / acre PTT
2 lbs/ acre DER
5 lbs / Acre GH Radish


I plan to wait a week or so for a high probability of rain in the forecast.

That night was last night @Foggy47!

 

[Foggy47]

That night was last night @Foggy47!

Yep......well.....I had some important medical obligations with my wife. Gotta find the next one. It will come.

 

[sandbur]

^ Yep. Setting-up my Tar River drill tomorrow and plan to put these seeds into my drill: (I already have a nice stand of red and white clovers now)

Large box: All 8 acres
100 lbs / acre Elbon W. Rye
5 lbs / acre A. W. Peas
5 lbs / acre soy beans

Small Box: (9 lbs mix). All 8 acres
5 lbs / acre Medium Red Clover
2 lbs / acre Alice White Clover
2 lbs / acre Ladino White Clover

.....and adding to the small box above in select areas (Prox 3 to 4 acres) with this mix added to the above in strips of short clipped clover (9 lbs / mix )
2 lbs / acre PTT
2 lbs/ acre DER
5 lbs / Acre GH Radish


I plan to wait a week or so for a high probability of rain in the forecast.

I haven’t heard of anyone planting soybeans this late in the north country. July 4 or so has been tried to have green forage beans for bow season, hopefully with no frost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Foggy47]

Th

I haven’t heard of anyone planting soybeans this late in the north country. July 4 or so has been tried to have green forage beans for bow season, hopefully with no frost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapata

I haven’t heard of anyone planting soybeans this late in the north country. July 4 or so has been tried to have green forage beans for bow season, hopefully with no frost.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah.......I just got some three year old beans on the shelf.....and thought they could still grow for 45 days and provide some forage. Can't hurt. May be a draw.

 

[Wild Thing]

His soil test dominates with no synthetics for 10 years.

Yep...and his "soil" was more like gravel than dirt when he started. It has been amazing to see the evolution at his Proving Grounds. There is no way that Grant Woods could do conventional farming - turning dirt. He really didn't have any dirt to turn and rocky/gravel ground is hard on tillage equipment.

 

[Wild Thing]

I am big on winter rye over winter wheat. Although both serve a purpose for me, and I use both when I need them. Winter rye does a great job as a companion crop, with clover, or about anything. It fills in the voids where weeds would normally grow, it uses a lot of Nitrogen, and scavenges other minerals from deep in the soil. It also repels certain weeds from growing, you can plant it in August, it will grow until winter hits, then when the snow melts, it will grow more and usually be the first thing to green up, blocking more weeds, and feeding the deer. You can then leave it mature, and replant your mid summer, late summer crop into it, and roll it, or mow it onto the fresh seeds. It really is a plant that gives year around.

Winter wheat does use some nitrogen, and will grow in the fall, and come back up in the spring, but it wont use as much nitrogen, or repel weeds, or fill in really thick like winter rye, if you let it mature, it really isnt much to plant back into in the summer. But, if you are planning on planting a spring crop, then winter wheat is a much better choice to plant the fall before.

I have pretty much switched to a plan of starting in the spring, with winter rye planted the previous fall, I let the winter rye mature, it will get about 5 feet tall, then July 4th weekend I will plant my radish, turnips, or what ever bulbed seed I want in the plot that year, and roll, or mow it onto that seed, and give it a month or so to establish, then reseed winter rye into the already growing, 4-6 inch tall radishes, turnips, etc.. and come fall, the deer will have bulbs, and winter rye to eat, all winter they can dig and get the bulbs, and winter rye. Come spring the winter rye will be the first growing and block other cool season weeds from growing, then let it mature again and repeat. It build a lot of OM, and keeps weeds at bey. Winter wheat, I would have to spray, or cultivate to get rid of the weeds every summer.


I have 3 plots that are between 1/3 acre and 3/4 acres, for a total of about 2 acres. I know my plots wont feed the deer year round, but it will give them some much needed snacks when they need it the most, fall, winter, and spring in my area. On smaller properties, you add in all of your neighbors food lots, and everyone is planting about 10% of their land to food plots, it adds up, and helps them with some high protein food during their stress periods.

BINGO!

 

[Wild Thing]

i always mix medium red clover in the fall when I over seed with WR. I will also add some white & ladino to the mix. This is spring green up in late April. This was only 50 ;bs/acre of WR. You can easily do up to 100 lbs/acre of WR.

View attachment 45230

This is very similar Tree Spud:

50#/Acre rye
3#/acre Hairy Vetch
2#/Acre Medium Red Clover
2#/Acre Crimson Clover


I got plenty of clover here with only 4#/Acre. I have always been a big fan of Medium Red clover and it has always been included in all of my clover mixes and cover crops. One thing I am learning though is that it is very difficult to terminate. I am beginning to try out different clovers to see if I can get the same benefits of Medium Red but have clovers which are easier to terminate. Planted Crimson for the first time only a few years ago. This year I planted Fixation Balsana and Berseem clovers for the first time.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Interested to hear how fall planted fixation and frosty berseem work for you @Wild Thing

 

[omicron1792]

I’m trying a bunch this fall to see. I’m very intrigued with fixation and Berseem. Doing 7 of my acres in green cover fall release which has those two, and adding some extra rye to mix.

 

[omicron1792]

This is very similar Tree Spud:

50#/Acre rye
3#/acre Hairy Vetch
2#/Acre Medium Red Clover
2#/Acre Crimson Clover
View attachment 45239

I got plenty of clover here with only 4#/Acre. I have always been a big fan of Medium Red clover and it has always been included in all of my clover mixes and cover crops. One thing I am learning though is that it is very difficult to terminate. I am beginning to try out different clovers to see if I can get the same benefits of Medium Red but have clovers which are easier to terminate. Planted Crimson for the first time only a few years ago. This year I planted Fixation Balsana and Berseem clovers for the first time.

That field looks awesome. You’ve convinced me to add some hairy vetch.