Cereal Rye vs Wheat Question

[Wind Gypsy]

I’m trying a bunch this fall to see. I’m very intrigued with fixation and Berseem. Doing 7 of my acres in green cover fall release which has those two, and adding some extra rye to mix.

I’m most curious how it survives a zone 4a winter and emerges for spring. If there is actually forage in the fall would be interesting though too.

 

[omicron1792]

I’m most curious how it survives a zone 4a winter and emerges for spring. If there is actually forage in the fall would be interesting though too.

Form what I read Berseem is a preferred clover for deer but has not been winter hardy. Then frosty was developed to be more cold tolerant. I guess we will see

 

[Wild Thing]

Interested to hear how fall planted fixation and frosty berseem work for you @Wild Thing

Will let you know in the spring Wind Gypsy. Just planted it last weekend. Thankfully we got almost 1.5” of rain on Sunday and another 0.87” last night.

 

[Foggy47]

That night was last night @Foggy47!

Thought about this a bit.....and my ground is fairly wet.....and there is a good chance of some showers coming this week. Also, my time has been pretty tight and will continue that way for a few weeks due to some surgery my wife needs (gets complicated). Anyway......decided to plant about 4 acres today of my clovers, brassica and 100 lbs of winter rye. I may run out of time to get this done if I wait.

So I got those acres planted and had 1.5 bushels of buckwheat that I drilled into a future plot area(s) that just lack lime and soil qualities.

I re-thought those soy beans.....and decided to wait and plant those sometime in early summer next year. My Tar River Saya continues to impress me with it's ability. I now have planted about 25 acres with it.....and it's getting the job done. Today I used my "alternative" seed drop location (behind the double disks) for the clovers and brasica. I think the rolling basket and flaps provide plenty of disturbance to get those seeds in contact with the soil.

Where I have thicker clover......I may use my flail mower to cut the clover short after planting the mix above. Likely try some strips to compare the methods. Possibly finish my fall planting later this week. A bit ahead of plans......but it is what I can do this year.

Not sure if I can make-do without fertilizer......but most things look OK thus far. Some of my pics look a bit yellow due to the sorghum / Sudan in my mix from a few weeks ago. Clovers are looking good.

 

[Wild Thing]

Thought about this a bit.....and my ground is fairly wet.....and there is a good chance of some showers coming this week. Also, my time has been pretty tight and will continue that way for a few weeks due to some surgery my wife needs (gets complicated). Anyway......decided to plant about 4 acres today of my clovers, brassica and 100 lbs of winter rye. I may run out of time to get this done if I wait.

So I got those acres planted and had 1.5 bushels of buckwheat that I drilled into a future plot area(s) that just lack lime and soil qualities.

I re-thought those soy beans.....and decided to wait and plant those sometime in early summer next year. My Tar River Saya continues to impress me with it's ability. I now have planted about 25 acres with it.....and it's getting the job done. Today I used my "alternative" seed drop location (behind the double disks) for the clovers and brasica. I think the rolling basket and flaps provide plenty of disturbance to get those seeds in contact with the soil.

Where I have thicker clover......I may use my flail mower to cut the clover short after planting the mix above. Likely try some strips to compare the methods. Possibly finish my fall planting later this week. A bit ahead of plans......but it is what I can do this year.

Not sure if I can make-do without fertilizer......but most things look OK thus far. Some of my pics look a bit yellow due to the sorghum / Sudan in my mix from a few weeks ago. Clovers are looking good.

Unless I get around to planting some travel corridors or clover "strips" I am done using my drill this year. I drilled my fall cover crops earlier this year because I wanted most of the mix (clovers, brassicas, radish, buckwheat) to get a little jump start...but that timing is still too early for cereal grains if I want them to be palatable for early archery season. It was somewhat of a compromise...I only included 30#/acre of cereal grains in the mix (10# each of Oats, Wheat and Rye). Sometime around Labor Day I will broadcast another 50#/acre or so of rye over the top of the cover crop. Yes, it is a little more work than drilling it all at once but I want to see how it works out. Time will tell.

Best wishes for a successful surgery and speedy recovery for your wife Foggy.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Looks good @Foggy47, best wishes for your wife!

My soil was probably moist enough for the seed when I planted on Thursday before the rains that followed so I could see thinks being just fine.

 

[omicron1792]

Thought about this a bit.....and my ground is fairly wet.....and there is a good chance of some showers coming this week. Also, my time has been pretty tight and will continue that way for a few weeks due to some surgery my wife needs (gets complicated). Anyway......decided to plant about 4 acres today of my clovers, brassica and 100 lbs of winter rye. I may run out of time to get this done if I wait.

So I got those acres planted and had 1.5 bushels of buckwheat that I drilled into a future plot area(s) that just lack lime and soil qualities.

I re-thought those soy beans.....and decided to wait and plant those sometime in early summer next year. My Tar River Saya continues to impress me with it's ability. I now have planted about 25 acres with it.....and it's getting the job done. Today I used my "alternative" seed drop location (behind the double disks) for the clovers and brasica. I think the rolling basket and flaps provide plenty of disturbance to get those seeds in contact with the soil.

Where I have thicker clover......I may use my flail mower to cut the clover short after planting the mix above. Likely try some strips to compare the methods. Possibly finish my fall planting later this week. A bit ahead of plans......but it is what I can do this year.

Not sure if I can make-do without fertilizer......but most things look OK thus far. Some of my pics look a bit yellow due to the sorghum / Sudan in my mix from a few weeks ago. Clovers are looking good.

Prayers for your wife foggy.

 

[Tree Spud]

Thought about this a bit.....and my ground is fairly wet.....and there is a good chance of some showers coming this week. Also, my time has been pretty tight and will continue that way for a few weeks due to some surgery my wife needs (gets complicated). Anyway......decided to plant about 4 acres today of my clovers, brassica and 100 lbs of winter rye. I may run out of time to get this done if I wait.

So I got those acres planted and had 1.5 bushels of buckwheat that I drilled into a future plot area(s) that just lack lime and soil qualities.

I re-thought those soy beans.....and decided to wait and plant those sometime in early summer next year. My Tar River Saya continues to impress me with it's ability. I now have planted about 25 acres with it.....and it's getting the job done. Today I used my "alternative" seed drop location (behind the double disks) for the clovers and brasica. I think the rolling basket and flaps provide plenty of disturbance to get those seeds in contact with the soil.

Where I have thicker clover......I may use my flail mower to cut the clover short after planting the mix above. Likely try some strips to compare the methods. Possibly finish my fall planting later this week. A bit ahead of plans......but it is what I can do this year.

Not sure if I can make-do without fertilizer......but most things look OK thus far. Some of my pics look a bit yellow due to the sorghum / Sudan in my mix from a few weeks ago. Clovers are looking good.

I just overseeded about 8 acres with hairy vetch at about 8.75 lbs/acre. Not sure if that will be enough. Had to hand inoculate 70 lbs which was a pain.

Will be spreading about 100 lbs/acre of WR around Labor day weekend. WR was up from $11/bush last year to $20/bush this year.

Foggy, hope all goes well for you and your wife!

 

[Foggy47]

I just overseeded about 8 acres with hairy vetch at about 8.75 lbs/acre. Not sure if that will be enough. Had to hand inoculate 70 lbs which was a pain.

Will be spreading about 100 lbs/acre of WR around Labor day weekend. WR was up from $11/bush last year to $20/bush this year.

Foggy, hope all goes well for you and your wife!

I've never planted Hairy Vetch. When I read about it.....some say it was difficult to terminate and felt it was quite invasive. Others seem to like it. I feel the WR provides the needed biomass......so I have just stayed with that. Other than bio mass and diversity.......what does the H. Vetch provide?

I know I am a few weeks early on the WR.....but it's potentially busy in a few weeks for me.....and I'm never certain on rain......thus I got my 1/2 rye in. Will do the other half this week.....weather permitting.

 

[omicron1792]

I've never planted Hairy Vetch. When I read about it.....some say it was difficult to terminate and felt it was quite invasive. Others seem to like it. I feel the WR provides the needed biomass......so I have just stayed with that. Other than bio mass and diversity.......what does the H. Vetch provide?

I know I am a few weeks early on the WR.....but it's potentially busy in a few weeks for me.....and I'm never certain on rain......thus I got my 1/2 rye in. Will do the other half this week.....weather permitting.

Nitrogen

 

[Rit]

OM isn’t created with the above ground growth or leftover biomass. Unless you were discing it under. But discing comes at a price of by introducing massive amounts of oxygen into the soil that mingles with the carbon which eventually gets released into the atmosphere as CO2. OM is created by the leftover roots that decay in the ground when the plant is terminated. I used to think it was the former as well. I believe it was a video by Dr. Elaine Ingham that cleared that up for me and it wasn’t all that long ago. Not all cover crops are created equal.

 

[Rit]

Suppose I did intense food plotting planting significant acreage, fertilizing, and spraying weeds to maximize yield on a large scale. Sound pretty good from a deer herd perspective at first glance. But then, after 10 years, I get sick and can't do it any more and stop. Or, I sell the land and the next guy does nothing. Now what happens to the deer
Thanks,

Jack

I think nothing happens to the deer when you stop. I think when the food source changes the deer adapt and move on just like they have for millions of years, just as they do when the seasons change.

Hope you are well Jack.

 

[Rit]

His soil test dominates with no synthetics for 10 years.

I think the transformation is amazing but my only beef or thing I bring into question is that he is sponsored by antler dirt. If I had a few train fulls of that stuff on my plots what would they look like? I do recall a video where they brought in loads of the stuff.

 

[Tree Spud]

I've never planted Hairy Vetch. When I read about it.....some say it was difficult to terminate and felt it was quite invasive. Others seem to like it. I feel the WR provides the needed biomass......so I have just stayed with that. Other than bio mass and diversity.......what does the H. Vetch provide?

I know I am a few weeks early on the WR.....but it's potentially busy in a few weeks for me.....and I'm never certain on rain......thus I got my 1/2 rye in. Will do the other half this week.....weather permitting.

It is a very good nitrogen scavenger, good deer & turkey forage, supposed to do well in cold climates, and will produces lots of forage on spring green-up for soil cover crop. Also supposed to do well on sandy soils which I have. I learned about it from Wildthing.

 

[Wild Thing]

I've never planted Hairy Vetch. When I read about it.....some say it was difficult to terminate and felt it was quite invasive. Others seem to like it. I feel the WR provides the needed biomass......so I have just stayed with that. Other than bio mass and diversity.......what does the H. Vetch provide?

As a legume, Hairy vetch fixes atmospheric Nitrogen in is roots. Just make sure that you use inoculated seed with the specific bacteria for Vetch if you have never planted vetch in your plots before. All legumes will fix N of course, but HV is one of the best. I have been using it annually for several years now.





Plus...it adds some nice color to your cover crops.

Nitrogen

X2

OM isn’t created with the above ground growth or leftover biomass. Unless you were discing it under. But discing comes at a price of by introducing massive amounts of oxygen into the soil that mingles with the carbon which eventually gets released into the atmosphere as CO2. OM is created by the leftover roots that decay in the ground when the plant is terminated. I used to think it was the former as well. I believe it was a video by Dr. Elaine Ingham that cleared that up for me and it wasn’t all that long ago. Not all cover crops are created equal.

True - You will get some OM from the biomass above ground eventually decomposing, but the majority of OM comes from the roots below the soil surface. This is why tillage is so detrimental to your soil. It takes years to build up OM but it only takes one pass with tillage equipment to destroy it.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Looks like a wet week ahead @Foggy47

 

[Rit]

Looks like a wet week ahead @Foggy47

Same for my area. This week is dry but then 6 or 7 days with a chance to rain. It’s about 10 days earlier than I like to plant in the fall especially cereal grains but I just might have to plant anyway. Could be too wet to plant once that week is done.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I am going to plant my cereal much later than I normally have in the past. I usually try to plant late August or early September. I don't get any deer using it whatsoever. I am thinking that by holding off about 3-4 weeks could change that. I am going to plan on spreading seed late September into early October this year. We'll see what happens.

 

[Tree Spud]

OM isn’t created with the above ground growth or leftover biomass. Unless you were discing it under. But discing comes at a price of by introducing massive amounts of oxygen into the soil that mingles with the carbon which eventually gets released into the atmosphere as CO2. OM is created by the leftover roots that decay in the ground when the plant is terminated. I used to think it was the former as well. I believe it was a video by Dr. Elaine Ingham that cleared that up for me and it wasn’t all that long ago. Not all cover crops are created equal.

About 5 years ago I converted ~15 acres of my food plot/ag land to switch grass. I have sandy loam soil in these fields and goal was to build OM in the soil. Switch grass has a lot of top soil biomass that is laid down, but a great root system mass that gets 8'-10' deep.

 

[omicron1792]

About 5 years ago I converted ~15 acres of my food plot/ag land to switch grass. I have sandy loam soil in these fields and goal was to build OM in the soil. Switch grass has a lot of top soil biomass that is laid down, but a great root system mass that gets 8'-10' deep.

How happy have you been with the Switch for wildlife?