Is baiting counterproductive to gov't harvest objectives?

[SwampCat]

You must have misunderstood what I said……..The individual deer that I’m called into track and find is either mortally wounded before I get there or he isnt…..The hunter has already sealed his fate with the original shot one way or the other. There are no standers and there are no other deer slipping out that people are killing. There's only me and the hunter going after one individual deer that has already been shot.

My comments were not so much directed at you as it was an informational comment I made after reading your post -for folks who have never been around deer dogging. I think a lot of folks have a misconception about the effectiveness of dog hunting and how deer are killed with dog hunting.

I dont know for fact, but would guess there is dog hunting in Alabama - or at least probably was. Judging from most folks I know, you either like dog hunting or you hate it - not many middle of the road on this one.

Here in AR, back in the 80’s and before, you were probably hunting with deer dogs - whether you liked it or not. Very rare in those days not to hear a race or two everyday. That has really changed, now. I know very few folks who deer hunt with dogs. In 45 years of living in deer dog legal territory, I have killed one deer in front of a dog - and that was by accident. Was duck hunting and some beagles ran a deer over us and I killed it with a load of buckshot.

I consider myself in somewhat of an odd position, personally, on deer dogging. I do not want any deer dogging around my place - but I would not be in favor of banning deer dogging altogether. There is a lot of heritage and history in this part of the country concerning deer dogging. I remember back in the old days the excitement I would feel when I heard the dogs heading my way. Now, if I hear a dog on my place - it pisses me off. Kind of like bears - I like to hunt them but I dang sure dont want them on my land.

And as far as tracking dogs - I welcome them on my place - with or without a leash. I have had two occasions when someone shot a deer off my land and the wounded deer traveled onto my land - and were tracked by a tracking dog. Both times, they called me for permission. Neither time was the deer recovered. Really enjoyed watching the dog work.

 

[SD51555]

I could see where you could substitute food plotting everywhere baiting is used in that. I seriously doubt food plotting would be as big of a thing as it is if you couldn't routinely kill deer over them in some situations. I doubt hunting over farmer's ag crops would be as big as it is if it didn't up the odds either in some situations. I've hunted bait in areas where it could guarantee getting a shot at a deer, and I've hunted bait where you could guarantee not getting a shot at a deer. Substitute food plot or ag field for bait in that last sentence, and I've hunted it. And, I do see a difference in baiting/foodplot/supplemental feeding.

I agree. Whatever legal tactic puts deer in front of me, that's what I'm going to do. What's really neat about all of this is if cover cropping and no till ever catch on in a big way, the deer problem is going to explode. Nobody cover crops anywhere near me. If we started having 160 acre rye and radish fields going into winter in MN, we'd have forestry, commerce, and transportation over at soil and water looking to have a knife fight.

 

[SwampCat]

When a tracker goes out on any given call they never know for sure what they’re dealing with until after the deer is located. You can do a hit site assessment and guess at what will unfold but the only way to know for sure is to track to the deer, locate it, and then let the dog assess the condition of the deer. He may be dead, a little bit alive, a lot alive, and anything in between. A lot of that depends on the amount of time that has passed and not simply where the deer is hit.



But those live ones are the ones where some folks try to make a stink and say that we’re just running deer with dogs. The reality is that we’re using the dog to assess if it’s a fatal hit or not…..It’s not just as simple as if he runs then he’s ok…..Those gut shots get up and run with intestines hanging out of them…….and I consider those leg shots to be fatal too. Will there be 1 in a 1000 that make it with three legs??.....Maybe…….But I don’t see that as a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater……The other 999 will die within a few days around here when the coyotes find them. A lot of them don’t even make it overnight.

Do you keep up with recovery rate? The fellow that brought his dog on my land twice to track a wounded deer said he recovers roughly 50% of his attempts.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Do you keep up with recovery rate? The fellow that brought his dog on my land twice to track a wounded deer said he recovers roughly 50% of his attempts.

I don’t keep up with numbers but a lot of folks do and that’s about right for most trackers……40-50%.......It kinda depends on if you screen your calls strictly or just take everything that comes in. People call on any and everything….a fair number of the calls are clean misses.

 

[Mtyhunter]

^^Man, you quoted almost verbatim what another tracker told me about the recovery rate, people calling, and the obvious clean misses. Made him get very selective on what jobs he'd take on.
Just waiting on this grandson baseball coaching thing to lighten up, and I'm going to get into the dog deer recovery game. I love watching dogs work, the enjoyment you must get when your dog is successful, and seeing that happy/revlieved hunter face! At the point where I've been there and done that on the hunting/fishing front. Now if I put someone on good fishing or hunting, feels as satisfying as if I took it myself!
Quick question Crimson..is your tracking dog a house dog, too?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

My comments were not so much directed at you as it was an informational comment I made after reading your post -for folks who have never been around deer dogging. I think a lot of folks have a misconception about the effectiveness of dog hunting and how deer are killed with dog hunting.

I dont know for fact, but would guess there is dog hunting in Alabama - or at least probably was. Judging from most folks I know, you either like dog hunting or you hate it - not many middle of the road on this one.

Dog hunting is still legal here but its been restricted a lot over the years to only being allowed in certain counties……Most of the complaints about it have been over trespassing and packs of dogs being on other people’s land. In fairness to the dog hunters, technology has really changed our ability to control that now. GPS collars allow the dogs to be trained and recalled at any point without them crossing boundaries.


I’ll say this too about people’s disdain for dog hunting. A lot of the perception from other hunters that it’s messing things up for them is probably wrong. Tracking as many deer as I’ve gotten a chance to do has shown me a lot about deer behavior and it tends to be pretty much the same pattern over and over. Most deer do one of two things. They either run around in a big 1000 yard diameter circle or they bee line to the nearest creek bottom and run it to a body of water. Either way nearly ALL of them return right back to where they were originally. They have their bedding spots they like and it doesn’t matter if you run them off for a mile or two from it, they’re coming right back.


I tracked a bow shot a couple years ago for a guy that was shot way back in the intestines. We tracked to him to the corner of a pine thicket where he jumped and ran……The dog chased after him but he was still so lively that he wouldn’t even check up. When I called it off we were around 1500 yards from where he had jumped…close to a mile. The hunter called me back a few days later to tell me had just recovered the buck. He was dead 20 yards from where we jumped him that day. Now folks still might not like the fact that dogs are having any impact on the little chess match that their trying to play with a buck…..but the idea that its going to run him off isnt really accurate. It’s just going to get him on his feet and make him move and that’s when you want to be ready for him coming back in.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

Quick question Crimson..is your tracking dog a house dog, too?

Mine are spoiled yard dogs that get to come in at night sometimes to sleep.

 

[SwampCat]

Dog hunting is still legal here but its been restricted a lot over the years to only being allowed in certain counties……Most of the complaints about it have been over trespassing and packs of dogs being on other people’s land. In fairness to the dog hunters, technology has really changed our ability to control that now. GPS collars allow the dogs to be trained and recalled at any point without them crossing boundaries.


I’ll say this too about people’s disdain for dog hunting. A lot of the perception from other hunters that it’s messing things up for them is probably wrong. Tracking as many deer as I’ve gotten a chance to do has shown me a lot about deer behavior and it tends to be pretty much the same pattern over and over. Most deer do one of two things. They either run around in a big 1000 yard diameter circle or they bee line to the nearest creek bottom and run it to a body of water. Either way nearly ALL of them return right back to where they were originally. They have their bedding spots they like and it doesn’t matter if you run them off for a mile or two from it, they’re coming right back.


I tracked a bow shot a couple years ago for a guy that was shot way back in the intestines. We tracked to him to the corner of a pine thicket where he jumped and ran……The dog chased after him but he was still so lively that he wouldn’t even check up. When I called it off we were around 1500 yards from where he had jumped…close to a mile. The hunter called me back a few days later to tell me had just recovered the buck. He was dead 20 yards from where we jumped him that day. Now folks still might not like the fact that dogs are having any impact on the little chess match that their trying to play with a buck…..but the idea that its going to run him off isnt really accurate. It’s just going to get him on his feet and make him move and that’s when you want to be ready for him coming back in.

I agree 100%. The lease I was in for bear hunting a quite a few deer doggers. They killed more deer slipping back than they did in front of the dogs.

I also believe the present emphasis on producing quality deer is a strike against dog hunters because so many people believe a dog will run “their” buck out of the county.

 

[Garrett S]

I agree 100%. The lease I was in for bear hunting a quite a few deer doggers. They killed more deer slipping back than they did in front of the dogs.

I also believe the present emphasis on producing quality deer is a strike against dog hunters because so many people believe a dog will run “their” buck out of the county.

I would imagine there are folks who would try to make that happen with their dogs and someonelses property. While I love rabbit hunting with beagles and know some good houndsmen that enjoy the dogs more than the game killlef, most of the local guys who run coyotes have zero regard for anyone’s anything as “dogs can’t read posted signs”.

I started following this thread for the simple reason of figuring out if baiting works (where legal) for mature bucks as a new landowner in a state where many say “you are either baiting or out of the game”


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