A gun to fill in the gaps...

[Teeder]

I think millimeters were not used in marketing post WW 2 due to negative feelings towards Europe.

How does the 260 Rem compare to the 6.5 x 55 and 6.5 creedmore?

Why isn’t the 260 Rem more popular?

It’s funny for me, obviously I didn’t associate the 264 as a 6.5 bullet. Nearly 30 years ago when I first started shooting center fires.

The guy who helped me reload my 8x57 said his absolute favorite big game rifle he owned was a 264 Winchester magnum.

My brother's deer, shot last year with a .260.

 

[Angus 1895]

About 7 years ago I was told a fantastic long range cartridge was the 6.5 x 284 Winchester, did it have this barrel twist you speak of?

Is the 6.5 PRC similar?

 

[Teeder]

About 7 years ago I was told a fantastic long range cartridge was the 6.5 x 284 Winchester, did it have this barrel twist you speak of?

Is the 6.5 PRC similar?

I believe the 6.5x284 was originally setup for long range target. Both you listed should have the tight twist.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

In order of case size - Swede is biggest, 260 is next, then creedmoor.

Swede is limited in modern popularity due to a few things - most factory ammo and load data is based upon weak mauser actions not designed for modern pressures. It's kind of a tweener with overall length. short for a long action, long for a short action. As far as case design, there is just a lot of taper which means you get more case stretch per firing. A well loaded swede in a modern action can be bad medicine!

Why the creedmoor stuck and the 260 didnt:
-260 SAAMI barrel twist is 9, the heavy high BC bullets need an 8 twist.
-If a 260 had the right twist, one still needed to stuff high BC bullets deep in the case to fit in standard magazines
-260 used a traditional shorter throat which also restricted the ability to seat high bc bullets long.
-Seating bullets longer gets the bearing surface in front of the neck/shoulder junction which can impair accuracy.
-Creedmoor throat design mimicks what competition shooters spec with their custom chambers, low clearance parallel freebore and shallow land angle. Tends to be more accurate and forgiving
-uses a hair less powder, lower capacity case is slightly more efficient, less recoil
-30 degree shoulders result in less case stretch for longer brass life
-was loaded with cheap factory ammo that matched the type of ammo competition shooters would load themselves and wasn't available in 260.

All of these things add up. RIfle/ammo manufacturers were slow to adapt to what competition shooters were doing to maximize performance/efficiency instead hanging on to old standards in regards to twist rates, throats, and cartridge length. Hornady started actually designing cases optimized for these things and made them readily available. There are plenty of 260s out there that can do everything a creedmoor can but but there's very little practical reason to choose 260 over creedmoor. Look at what chambering rifle companys send to the magazines for their review and accuracy testing. Look at the most accurate rifle results recently from these magazines. There is a trend, the vast majority are 6.5 creedmoor or another hornady cartridge using the same design philosophy.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

About 7 years ago I was told a fantastic long range cartridge was the 6.5 x 284 Winchester, did it have this barrel twist you speak of?

Is the 6.5 PRC similar?

6.5x284 and 6.5 prc are near ballistic twins. Main difference is the PRC can work better in a short action and has much better factory support from hornady. 284 uses a standard bolt face, PRC uses a magnum.

 

[Teeder]

Ya, what he said!
The Creed is a dandy design, top to bottom.
Average dudes weren't into long, high bc bullets back when the .260 was commercialized.

 

[Catscratch]

Shotgun shopping is a real bummer in my opinion. It's so important that the gun fit properly and point well for you.

I had read articles in magazines and online, and I had a few shotguns in mind that I thought offered good value in a reasonable price range. I went to about 6 different gun stores in as many months, and I found out none of them fit me well. What did fit well and point instinctively for me? Beretta Silver Pigeon and Benelli Black Eagle. Way out of my price range at the time. I settled on a Turkish over/under that fit me best of all the sub $500 shotguns I tried. I like it, but I don't love it. However, I did start shooting more trap and hunting more small game after I bought it, because it made shotgun shooting more enjoyable than missing all the time with my 870 Express youth model.

I promised myself I wouldn't buy another shotgun until I had about $2000 set aside and enough free time to be able to shoot trap and hunt small game. That hasn't happened yet, so I don't have a new shotgun yet. But when that day comes, I will go around and try a bunch of different shotguns and just buy the one that fits me best. I think that is the key to being happy with a shotgun purchase and actually using the gun once I get it home. It's hard to get excited about shooting trap or hunting rabbits when your gun doesn't mount as well as it could.

If you are going to buy a semi-auto, have a look at the Benelli Super Black Eagle and the Franchi Affinity. They're not cheap, but I recall them mounting and pointing well for me.

Try looking at the Beretta 1301. The drop, cast, and length of pull are all adjustable. It comes with a nice selection of spacers and tapered wedges to get the fit you want. It's a competition gun, but the features that make it good for competition also make it good for hunting. The only think I don't like is I couldn't find it in blue and wood.

 

[Angus 1895]

I understand that “ magnums” require longer barrels to realize the benefits ballisically.

Are these newer cartridges (6.5 creed, 6.5 PRC etc) needing longer barrels?

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I understand that “ magnums” require longer barrels to realize the benefits ballisically.

Are these newer cartridges (6.5 creed, 6.5 PRC etc) needing longer barrels?

[Edit to reword] "Needing" a longer barrel isn't really a thing. In general a longer barrel = more velocity in any cartridge. How much velocity is wanted is an application specific thing. A 300 win mag is still faster than a 30-06 in a short barrel, it's just not as fast as it would have been with a longer barrel.

All a matter of how one wants to get to an end goal. For example, i can push a 108 grain 6mm bullet to 2850 FPS from an 18" 6 creedmoor. I could push the same bullet to that speed in a 6mm Bench Rest in a 28" barrel burning less powder but i dont want to hunt with a 28" barrel. I'm not "realizing the full benefit" of a 6 creedmoor that could be doing 3050 FPS in a 26" barrel but rather maintaining sufficient performance in a more desirable platform that plays nice with a suppressor.

 

[Someday isle]

I like the idea of filling in the gap. Truth be told what you have will cover things pretty well. I spent many years on the quest to fill all the gaps. Currently I have .223, .243, 6.5 x 55, 7mm Rem. Mag, .308, .338 Federal, .375 H&H, 45/70, .458 Win Mag.

No, I don‘t need them all, but I like to shoot and handloading is a side hobby. I’ve never taken the .458 hunting but you never know. Everything else from the 243 to the 45/70 has been used on deer and hog sized game over the years. While many consider the .223 okay for deer I consider it a little too light for my purposes.

I have some traditional favorites, a couple classics, and a couple not so common. More often than not I hunt with the 7mm but they all get used once in a while. For your purposes I think something in the 6.5 or .260 platform might be a good fit. I love the 6.5 x 55. Mild shooting with minimal felt recoil. Of course with handloads you can really stretch it out. I run a 140 grain bullet in the 2600-2700 ft per second range in mine. It’s taken its share of deer over the years and it’s a good rifle for a younger, older, or recoil sensitive shooter, but it’s also in that mythical “Might be the perfect deer round caliber” range too. I think Tikka is about the only one making them readily available.

I was also always enamored with the .257 Weatherby Magnum - I think it’d be fun. I just never went there.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

In order of case size - Swede is biggest, 260 is next, then creedmoor.

What definition of case size are you refering to? Length, diameter, or volume?

I think Remington screwed up when they marketed the .260 as a kids and womens caliber and didn't offer the .260 in the model 700.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target round.

 

[Teeder]

What definition of case size are you refering to? Length, diameter, or volume?

I think Remington screwed up when they marketed the .260 as a kids and womens caliber and didn't offer the .260 in the model 700.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target round.

Should be volume.

 

[RGrizzzz]

I understand that “ magnums” require longer barrels to realize the benefits ballisically.

Are these newer cartridges (6.5 creed, 6.5 PRC etc) needing longer barrels?

In some instances, yes. Check out the Bergara B-14 Ridge SP in 6.5 Creedmoor. It comes with an 18" barrel and is meant to be used with a suppressor. Awesome setup if you're allowed to use suppressors in your state. There are some Youtube videos of people shooting it out to 1000 yards. A few companies load 90/95 grain ammo for predators, and of course you can find bigger for medium sized game.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

What definition of case size are you refering to? Length, diameter, or volume?

I think Remington screwed up when they marketed the .260 as a kids and womens caliber and didn't offer the .260 in the model 700.

The 6.5 Creedmoor was developed as a target round.

Yep, volume. It's the important one when it comes to a cartridge's velocity potential. In this case length would apply too.

 

[Telemark]

Try looking at the Beretta 1301. The drop, cast, and length of pull are all adjustable. It comes with a nice selection of spacers and tapered wedges to get the fit you want. It's a competition gun, but the features that make it good for competition also make it good for hunting. The only think I don't like is I couldn't find it in blue and wood.

I will do. Thanks.

 

[Catscratch]

I will do. Thanks.

I just checked the price and you might as well keep the SBE on your list. I bought my 1301 a few years ago for less than $800, now it looks like they have doubled in price. It is a good hunting gun even though they haven't marketed if that way, but for their current price I wouldn't consider it a "great value" anymore.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Other input on shotguns - I'd get a 3" chamber rather than 3.5 if going 12 ga. Seems they are more likely to cycle lighter trap stuff better and i see no good reason for 3.5" shotgun shells.

 

[Telemark]

Other input on shotguns - I'd get a 3" chamber rather than 3.5 if going 12 ga. Seems they are more likely to cycle lighter trap stuff better and i see no good reason for 3.5" shotgun shells.

I definitely agree there.

 

[bigboreblr]

You dont need 3.5 shells, you need to spend some time on the skeet range!

I sold my long range guns in 2019 in regret..... i bought a 308 because mt son-in-law will get my guns n plenty of ammo. 1/2 of his guns are tactidoodle 308s. If it was just me only, id have a 270.

Theres 2 basic answers. Fill the gap or kids gun.

 

[Teeder]

The specified "gap" and "kids guns" overlap in this case.