A gun to fill in the gaps...

[Telemark]

Thought about a 7mm-08 as well

That is probably the absolute best all-around hunting cartridge in existence. It can do anything you would ever need it to do. The only drawback is that you need to load it all yourself. If you are good with that, then the 7mm-08 is most likely what you want.

 

[Angus 1895]

How is a 7/08 superior to a .308 ?

 

[bigboreblr]

What do you consider the 300WSM good for and up to.

This gap..... Tell us a story about it.

The best practical deer rifle out there is 270 win. Alot of folks who consider good whitetail cartridges alll are a little more or less a 270 win.

Look at velocity and range, it's a poor man's magnum. 150gr heads are pretty close in trajectory to 223 as an added bonus.

There's two kinds of youth rifles. An adult sized rifle that is low kick. And there is a pint size gun that is low kick. Get an older remington 700 or Savage in 270 win. A decent weight rifle will be easy to shoot from blinds or treestands with a good shooting rest with 130gr bullets. A kid too small to pick up a regular gun, you need to go smaller. A old savage 340 in 7mm waters. A necked down 30-30.

For me it's pretty much whitetail deer only. Varmit hunting done with deer guns. 300 yards is pushing it for me. Don't practice that much, don't have younger man's eyes or steady holds either.

I need 2 if not 3 guns. A longer range gun for open fields. A gun for woods stalk hunting, mainly a lighter gun to hold most of the day with a low power scope for quick shots. Gun #3 is something that can be in the rain OK. I got a savage 308 for field use and have a 450 marlin for woods shooting. I was building a 458 socom 18" barreled AR-15 with eotech sght when my sate banned those evil suckers....

Here in NY and in nearby PA with the right muzzleloader I get about 25 extra days of hunting. Octoboer in the adirondacks, Most of December in the rest of NY. And with a flintlock an extra month with 2+ tags in PA.

Straight walled cartridges can be used in some areas where rifles can't. Are you in an area or near one that could benefit from this kind of gun? 350 legend in a single shot gun would fill the gap. In fact can fill several with other barrels. 350 legend I hear is recoil freindly too.. 300 blackout is likely less recoil too.

IF you can find one, a 45 cal muzzleloader can be loaded hot to shoot far, then with some range work be loaded lightly for youth users without rezeroing the gun. I do it all the time with my 50 cal omega. Load it hot for me, lighten the load for loaning.

Also, do you job right with a steady gun, and you don't need a 2nd shot. IT is nice to have a autloader or a pump acion rifle for quick repeat shots if your walking the woods. A few years back I wanted to buy a remington 7600 or a browning BPR. in PA you can't use semi-auto rifles, NY you can though. However, I make do ok with the 450 marlin broening BLR. It's stainless so it doubles as the foul weather gun. Walked all over camp in the rain last weekend.

 

[swat1018]

I'd go Benelli SBE3 if you're going the shotgun route. This coming from a former Browning Maxus owner.

Yea, shotguns are personal preference. But, I second the Benelli. If you need 3.5 get a SBE, if you don't an M2. I have both, plus a Vinci...

 

[Native Hunter]

I have a 25-06 in a stainless, fluted Remington Sendero. I like the gun but don’t use it much. That may change as I get older and more sensitive to recoil. It shoots my handload with a 115 grain ballistic tip really well and has done a great job on the deer I’ve shot with it.

 

[buckdeer1]

I don't have a 6.5 creedmore but have tracked deer shot with them and very poor blood trails if you can find them.I saw an article in one of the major mags the day after tracking a buck that had been shot twice with one.I believe their title was deer wounder or deer killer.The big suggestion was to be very careful what bullet you use.

 

[Teeder]

How is a 7/08 superior to a .308 ?

Superior is subjective. I've had numerous of both. The 7mm-08's seem to stay and the 308's tend to move on down the road.

 

[Angus 1895]

Superior is subjective. I've had numerous of both. The 7mm-08's seem to stay and the 308's tend to move on down the road.

I think I know the answer to the question.

Its reduced recoil with similar trajectory.

but I believe terminal ballistics will usually be improved in calibers that exhibit more recoil.

As the original post stated , for children or smaller hunters , reducing recoil is a sound objective.

However the Barnes 130 grain in a .308 bullet would most likely mirror a 7/08 on whitetail.

and the .308 winchester can load up to the 200 grain projectile. I don’t know how well the 7/08 handles the 175 grain?

Perhaps he “ needs” a Winchester model 100 in 284 win?

 

[Mozark]

I bought a remington 700 CDL in 25-06 for my ex, we both enjoyed shooting that rifle. It was used, don't know if it had an after market trigger or just a really good trigger job, one of the easiest rifles to shoot accurately. I would think it would be a great choice for your sons. I owned a 257 WBY at the same time, great cartridge, better at longer ranges but more recoil and muzzle blast. I sold it when I finally found a 264 Win, if I couldn't have the 264, I would go right back to the 257 Wby.

 

[Telemark]

How is a 7/08 superior to a .308 ?

In literally every way except availability.

Recoil, energy, trajectory, wind drift, etc.

7mm-08 Beats 308 Win! — Ron Spomer Outdoors

The 7mm-08 Remington out-performs the beloved 308 Winchester in head-to-head ballistic competition. So why isn't it more popular?

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com

 

[Teeder]

Unless a guy lives and hunts the biggest critters in Alaska, there's zero need for a 200 grain bullet in the .308. If you're talking about that scenario, I'd rather be using my .338-06 with a 250 anyway. Otherwise, there's nothing you couldn't hunt with a 120-160 grainer out of the 7mm-08. I shot a doe the other night with my leftover 160 grain Newfoundland "moose" loads. It worked.

 

[Bill Loser]

X2 on the .260. would get 1 in a heart beat if I had room for 1.... Meaning if the boss would.let me!

 

[roymunson]

What do you consider the 300WSM good for and up to.

This gap..... Tell us a story about it.

I consider the 300 wsm good on everything up to coastal brown bears in alaska. If I spring for the cash to go on a coastal brown bear hunt, I'll have the cash and reasoning to buy a new gun in 375 h&h or something like that.

223, 243 for varmints and fun around home. 7RM for deer and possibly elk. 300 wsm for elk and larger. But there's a pretty significant hole between the 243 and the 7 RM. Ohio is a shotgun/straightwall rifle state. So I have that covered with other guns. But If I get the chance to go hunt WV or PA, I'd like something between the 243 and 7 RM. Both will work, but it's a good reason to buy another gun.

Something in a 264 would probably be smack in the middle, but either the 270 or 25 caliber would work too.

The other thought is if one of my kids goes hunting with me, I can take the heavier gun, and he can pack the lighter hitting rifle... Which is honestly only going to be a once or twice in a lifetime issue...

 

[Teeder]

Imo, there's no better whitetail cartridge than a 7mm-08.
The daughter of a friend of mine is a dr and gets to hunts all over, mostly whitetail, but elk too. Her and her husband hunt 4-6 states every year. She started out with a 7mm-08, but eventually went to a 6.5 creed. After 2 seasons, she went back to the 7mm-08, because she wasn't happy with how the Creed worked. I'm sure it has to do with the new high bc, lightly built bullets used in the Creed.

 

[Angus 1895]

In literally every way except availability.

Recoil, energy, trajectory, wind drift, etc.

7mm-08 Beats 308 Win! — Ron Spomer Outdoors

The 7mm-08 Remington out-performs the beloved 308 Winchester in head-to-head ballistic competition. So why isn't it more popular?

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com

I am sorry this article is flawed in the areas of matching velocity but not sectional density/ ballistic co efficient. In the projectiles.
In other words the .308 should have a heavier bullet or more velocity. I am not home next to my reloading books, but careful study of the .308 platform of cartridges will show that the less contractions to the powder column the more velocity achieved per grain of powder and mass of bullet.

Granted if less recoil is what you are seeking with similar sectional density / ballistic co efficient then constricting the powder column will accomplish that. So if one believes less recoil = better accuracy, and more sectional density increased ballistic cor efficient reduces wind drift increases accuracy than by all means a 7/08 beats a .308 in certain scenarios.

But .284 versus .308 is not that much difference in diameter. I would propose a better choice for recoil reduction would be the 6.5 or .257.

To maximize powder column efficiency use less constricting chamber dimensions.

The .308 projectile selection available for the .308 Winchester runs from 90 grains to 200. A .308 130 grain Barnes would be a good choice for young shooters, and as they grow you could increase the ordinance.

I need to look up what the 7 mm bullet selection is.

I think the superior cartridge in 7mm is the 284 Winchester.
Longer action would be the 280 Remington.

The .308 Winchester also Trumps all others for Ammunition availability.

 

[Telemark]

I am sorry this article is flawed in the areas of matching velocity but not sectional density/ ballistic co efficient. In the projectiles.
In other words the .308 should have a heavier bullet or more velocity. I am not home next to my reloading books, but careful study of the .308 platform of cartridges will show that the less contractions to the powder column the more velocity achieved per grain of powder and mass of bullet.

Granted if less recoil is what you are seeking with similar sectional density / ballistic co efficient then constricting the powder column will accomplish that. So if one believes less recoil = better accuracy, and more sectional density increased ballistic cor efficient reduces wind drift increases accuracy than by all means a 7/08 beats a .308 in certain scenarios.

But .284 versus .308 is not that much difference in diameter. I would propose a better choice for recoil reduction would be the 6.5 or .257.

To maximize powder column efficiency use less constricting chamber dimensions.

The .308 projectile selection available for the .308 Winchester runs from 90 grains to 200. A .308 130 grain Barnes would be a good choice for young shooters, and as they grow you could increase the ordinance.

I need to look up what the 7 mm bullet selection is.

I think the superior cartridge in 7mm ” short action “ is the 284 Winchester.
Long action would be the 280 Remington.

The .308 Winchester also Trumps all others for Ammunition availability.

I don't think I understand what you are saying here. It seems like you concede the 7mm-08 is better in terms of sectional density, wind drift, ballistic coefficient, and recoil, but is overal inferior because it doesn't burn powder as efficiently as the 308. Is that the gist?

 

[Teeder]

" I think the superior cartridge in 7mm ” short action is the 284 Winchester."

This contradicts your argument about compressed powder and constricted chamber dimensions. Bullets must be seated much deeper in a .284 than the 7mm-08, eliminating most of the gain of having a larger case.

 

[Angus 1895]

I am saying that unless you compare apples to apples a more constricted cartridge will appear to have better ballistic performance.

I don’t have reloading data with me, so I propose look at max loads of the 7/08 vs .308 in similar bullet weight.

Then look at max loads of the 7/08 vs .308: with bullets of identical s/d & b/c .

I propose the .308 will out preform, but incur more recoil.

I also suggest the .308 has more bullet weight selection and ammunition is more available.

I also propose it’s a minuscule difference and like other people have stated the 6.5 and 257 might give less recoil with similar terminal ballistics.

 

[Angus 1895]

" I think the superior cartridge in 7mm ” short action is the 284 Winchester."

This contradicts your argument about compressed powder and constricted chamber dimensions. Bullets must be seated much deeper in a .284 than the 7mm-08, eliminating most of the gain of having a larger case.

Look at the reloading data the 284 vs 7/08.

I don’t have my books handy.

I recall an advantage in the .284

 

[Angus 1895]

Look at the reloading data the 284 vs 7/08.

I don’t have my books handy.

I recall an advantage in the .284

I see your point I will edit out the “ short action” it needs more chamber length.

I am implying bore diameter as constriction , case capacity wasn’t considered as you pointed out.

So the 284 needs to be a “ long action “ to preform. I believe the 6.5 x 55 is similar?