Herd management?

I agree aging is what matters, I just don't believe it. I know most hunters can pick out 2.5 and most can pick out fully mature old deer. If I showed 100 pics of bucks all from 3.5 to 5.5yrs with no antlers, I don't think a hunter can get 85% accurate age. I do believe 75% of hunters think they can but I would bet against them. To do what they are suggesting you would need to age the difference between 3.5 and 4.5 and 5.5, I bet no. I watch so called experts In QDMA magazines with racks included almost always had 3 years variations when they had racks and had hours to study it and still almost all disagree.
Yeah, I think those middle aged bucks are the hardest to age too. Most people can't do it unless you have history with the buck. That's where management decisions come from. But, I think most people can determine if a buck is fully mature or not. They just look different. My kids can do that. They also know what a 1.5 or 2.5 yo buck looks like on our property. From there, you can determine what the in between ages look like, and then narrow it down based on history.
 
I wish I had neighbors who cared about even trying to age.

I’ve got no shooters left after the Bait and Bullets season so I’m turning my attention to old bully bucks. I hate the term cull because there’s almost zero genetic component. I’m disappointed I don’t have any shooters but would be honored to take one of these survivors especially since I don’t gun hunt so it’s a real challenge.
 
Last edited:
I agree it is difficult to age deer on the hoof. I dont even try for deer outside of my area. It even varies a lot across the state - from the delta to the mountains. However, for someone like me who lives on my place and has cameras out year round, we are on a first name basis with most of our bucks. And the fact that our deer just dont add many inches after age 4.5 - it make it easier. I dont have to worry if it is 4.5 or 6.5. We rarely get a picture of a buck during season that we dont already have a picture of. The biggest deer my wife has killed, my son has killed, and I have killed - all lost a point from the year before. Not everywhere is the same.
 
Age and nutrition. That's it.

Many of us (I'm looking in the mirror) would be wise to focus as much as possible on the nutrition aspect to maximize the deer available to us. Dispersal takes care of which deer are available(for the most part), so once we have their attention and they live some/all of their lives on our land...we give them the nutrients to fully achieve their potential. That also requires age, of course.

Plenty of studies from folks who did timber work, soil work, etc who saw an increase in body weight and inches on their farms after the improvements were made. Craig Harper has done a few that I've heard him speak about.

Does a 10% increase in body weight result in a 10% increase in inches? I don't know, but it is fascinating to think about.
 
Age and nutrition. That's it.

Many of us (I'm looking in the mirror) would be wise to focus as much as possible on the nutrition aspect to maximize the deer available to us. Dispersal takes care of which deer are available(for the most part), so once we have their attention and they live some/all of their lives on our land...we give them the nutrients to fully achieve their potential. That also requires age, of course.

Plenty of studies from folks who did timber work, soil work, etc who saw an increase in body weight and inches on their farms after the improvements were made. Craig Harper has done a few that I've heard him speak about.

Does a 10% increase in body weight result in a 10% increase in inches? I don't know, but it is fascinating to think about.

Absolutely age and nutrition. The rest is noise. But in my world age is the issue. We have plenty of nutrition with crops and crp/buffer strips, etc. What we don’t have is age. I would like to believe cover could help but I’m not so sure. They are still going to roam. I think the neighborhood is the ultimate factor.
 
Absolutely age and nutrition. The rest is noise. But in my world age is the issue. We have plenty of nutrition with crops and crp/buffer strips, etc. What we don’t have is age. I would like to believe cover could help but I’m not so sure. They are still going to roam. I think the neighborhood is the ultimate factor.
Figure out EXACTLY when your deer are most susceptible to harm from the neighbors and transform your property to give them everything they need during that period.

If it's the rut - security cover for does and food. Should stack does in there and keep the bucks plenty busy looking for them in security cover.

I know it isn't that simple but that's where my head is at for managing my properties and with land in two different states with very different season timing....they are completely different.
 
Last edited:
Figure out EXACTLY when your deer are most susceptible to harm from the neighbors and transform your property to give them everything they need during that period.

If it's the rut - security cover for does and food. Should stack does in there and keep the bucks plenty busy looking for them in security cover.

I know it isn't that simple but that's where my head is at for managing my properties and with land in two different states with very different season timing....they are completely different.
Since everyone runs a feeder here, outbait thy neighbor. Cover is everywhere
 
I just had this pretty 3 year old under me with a hot doe. He ran her in front of me out of sight, then a little while later ran her back by and looped back further into my property, then again here they come. Instead of going back into my property she runs up and over a steep hill onto the outfitters with him in tow, hopefully they were experimenting with huffing paint cause so far no shot. I bet in 10 minutes they ran a mile or more if you straightened their track.

I could have dumped a silo load of corn out and unfortunately that isn’t keeping that deer alive. They are too visible on this landscape to allow rifles in the rut
IMG_6023.jpeg
 
I just had this pretty 3 year old under me with a hot doe. He ran her in front of me out of sight, then a little while later ran her back by and looped back further into my property, then again here they come. Instead of going back into my property she runs up and over a steep hill onto the outfitters with him in tow, hopefully they were experimenting with huffing paint cause so far no shot. I bet in 10 minutes they ran a mile or more if you straightened their track.

I could have dumped a silo load of corn out and unfortunately that isn’t keeping that deer alive. They are too visible on this landscape to allow rifles in the rut
View attachment 71319
I agree - there is no surefire way to keep a deer on your property - especially this time of year. My 350 acres has about 30 acres of open ground - not thick cover like the rest. I see bucks out there regularly - 200 yards away from the woods. You do everything you can, and hope some of it helps. Before we started baiting, we killed one of the bigger deer once every five or six years. Now we kill one every other year. On my home ground, we have never killed a big deer on bait. Even though the big deer will use our bait sites - mostly at night - I believe the combination of available bait and an abundance of does because of the relatively available bait, and using a more preferred bait than the neighbors - buys us an extra quality buck or two. Most of the bigger bucks we kill are running does around a food plot oneating in a food plot late season.
 
I agree - there is no surefire way to keep a deer on your property - especially this time of year. My 350 acres has about 30 acres of open ground - not thick cover like the rest. I see bucks out there regularly - 200 yards away from the woods. You do everything you can, and hope some of it helps. Before we started baiting, we killed one of the bigger deer once every five or six years. Now we kill one every other year. On my home ground, we have never killed a big deer on bait. Even though the big deer will use our bait sites - mostly at night - I believe the combination of available bait and an abundance of does because of the relatively available bait, and using a more preferred bait than the neighbors - buys us an extra quality buck or two. Most of the bigger bucks we kill are running does around a food plot oneating in a food plot late season.
All my neighbors put out piles of corn. What is more preferred bait?
 
All my neighbors put out piles of corn. What is more preferred bait?
I can't answer for @SwampCat, but in the past I've used corn and rice bran side by side. They seemed to prefer the rice bran.
 
Everything I say is anecdotal, but they’re just observations from experience. I have three unique properties. Two have had zero bait on them outside of one had 100 pounds of corn to take some inventory. One has 2 feeders that stay full of protein from August to end of Jan. It’s several thousand dollars a year to keep them fed just for those few months. Has it paid off? Not really. My biggest deer on the feeder farm is dead but so is my biggest deer from the non feeder farm. I would like to believe that defensive baiting does just that. Defend against the orange vest corn pile fuddies that hatch this time of year. It hasn’t.
Now if I were to hunt over them than absolutely, every buck I’ve had would be dead by opening weekend of bow season.
I think the moral for me is, deer are gonna roam. If your in state with a gun season in the rut, defensive baiting AND habitat work has a ceiling on its effectiveness.
 
Everything I say is anecdotal, but they’re just observations from experience. I have three unique properties. Two have had zero bait on them outside of one had 100 pounds of corn to take some inventory. One has 2 feeders that stay full of protein from August to end of Jan. It’s several thousand dollars a year to keep them fed just for those few months. Has it paid off? Not really. My biggest deer on the feeder farm is dead but so is my biggest deer from the non feeder farm. I would like to believe that defensive baiting does just that. Defend against the orange vest corn pile fuddies that hatch this time of year. It hasn’t.
Now if I were to hunt over them than absolutely, every buck I’ve had would be dead by opening weekend of bow season.
I think the moral for me is, deer are gonna roam. If your in state with a gun season in the rut, defensive baiting AND habitat work has a ceiling on its effectiveness.
I lose some deer every year during the rut. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if guys were gun hunting at that time.
As for baiting, that just sounds like a next level nightmare to me. I don't envy you guys that are stuck in that quagmire.
 
I can't answer for @SwampCat, but in the past I've used corn and rice bran side by side. They seemed to prefer the rice bran.
corn is less preferred at my place than many of the powders. And not all powders are created equal
 
I lose some deer every year during the rut. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if guys were gun hunting at that time.
As for baiting, that just sounds like a next level nightmare to me. I don't envy you guys that are stuck in that quagmire.
I wish the baiting would be outlawed today. Problem is, a lot of guys are so dependent on it, would probably keep using illegal. Probably would have a deer population explosion if baiting were stopped here. Our state even allows baiting in cwd zones
 
Everything I say is anecdotal, but they’re just observations from experience. I have three unique properties. Two have had zero bait on them outside of one had 100 pounds of corn to take some inventory. One has 2 feeders that stay full of protein from August to end of Jan. It’s several thousand dollars a year to keep them fed just for those few months. Has it paid off? Not really. My biggest deer on the feeder farm is dead but so is my biggest deer from the non feeder farm. I would like to believe that defensive baiting does just that. Defend against the orange vest corn pile fuddies that hatch this time of year. It hasn’t.
Now if I were to hunt over them than absolutely, every buck I’ve had would be dead by opening weekend of bow season.
I think the moral for me is, deer are gonna roam. If your in state with a gun season in the rut, defensive baiting AND habitat work has a ceiling on its effectiveness.
I wasn't able to get to my property during rifle season this year. My farmer didn't get the alfalfa in like he wanted, so he put in corn again really late. I still have some standing. He picks it as he needs it. He asked if I wanted him to dump me some before rifle, so I said yes, knowing I wasn't going to get up there. I had no bait last year. On camera, I haven't seen a big difference in the number of deer on my place, and my target buck was killed down the road. So, in a bait rich environment, I don't know that it really helps much more than good habitat does.
 
Baiting in MN has been illegal for the 30 years that I've been aware of such laws. Theres a "cuffs & collars" section in the MN weekly outdoor news paper with reports from dozens of wardens across the state - baiting citations are as common as any report when gun season is open. A whole bunch of rural stores still stock bait and deer feed by the pallet. I cant imagine how much the law breaking would be in states where baiting has been a primary tactic for decades.
 
Last edited:
Everything I say is anecdotal, but they’re just observations from experience. I have three unique properties. Two have had zero bait on them outside of one had 100 pounds of corn to take some inventory. One has 2 feeders that stay full of protein from August to end of Jan. It’s several thousand dollars a year to keep them fed just for those few months. Has it paid off? Not really. My biggest deer on the feeder farm is dead but so is my biggest deer from the non feeder farm. I would like to believe that defensive baiting does just that. Defend against the orange vest corn pile fuddies that hatch this time of year. It hasn’t.
Now if I were to hunt over them than absolutely, every buck I’ve had would be dead by opening weekend of bow season.
I think the moral for me is, deer are gonna roam. If your in state with a gun season in the rut, defensive baiting AND habitat work has a ceiling on its effectiveness.
If bucks were attracted that much to feeders here, we wouldnt have a buck left - not with six weeks of gun season with a two buck limit over rut. Dont hardly ever see a buck on a spin feeder. They will come to feed on the ground - but a lot of folks arent gonna go o that much trouble. Here, baiting is no sure thing you are going to save your bucks and no sure thing you are going to kill one - fortunately
 
I feel if you are the only one baiting then could be a big advantage. I feel if everyone is baiting it is just like no one is baiting and a waste of money for all, back where you started. I feel if you are the only one not baiting then you are at a disadvantage and that is me. I can sleep at night because I feel fair chase is a big deal but also because I am tired from planting trees not from packing corn.
 
I just had this pretty 3 year old under me with a hot doe. He ran her in front of me out of sight, then a little while later ran her back by and looped back further into my property, then again here they come. Instead of going back into my property she runs up and over a steep hill onto the outfitters with him in tow, hopefully they were experimenting with huffing paint cause so far no shot. I bet in 10 minutes they ran a mile or more if you straightened their track.

I could have dumped a silo load of corn out and unfortunately that isn’t keeping that deer alive. They are too visible on this landscape to allow rifles in the rut
View attachment 71319
This deer in Pa. would be dead. Hunters here aren't going to try to age a buck like this. Rack / points is the sole governing factor for most hunters here. Shame - but true.
 
Top