High Grading, Bait, Cams and Crossbows is no good for anyone!

[Mortenson]

I am 149.6 miles driveway to driveway guess i will have to drive around the block and come in from the back, lol. On the other hand my bro lives 10 miles further away so he should be ok.

I think they'd let ya go. That's a monster in your profile pic. Did you get him?

 

[Catscratch]

I think they'd let ya go. That's a monster in your profile pic. Did you get him?

Ditto what he said about your profile pic!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[chucker66]

I bet he raced right up there right after the cell cam took the pic and shot him with a cross bow over a corn pile. Great Job!!!!!!

 

[finahol]

I think they'd let ya go. That's a monster in your profile pic. Did you get him?

Hey guys, wish I could say that I got him but in reality it was a one time pic from the eve of the last day of our season here in Mi about 10 yrs ago.Back when corn piles were legal and practically expected. Spent the next 9 months planning and dreaming but alas he was never seen again as far as I know. I have thought about taking the pic down but hey, I really like looking at it.

I personally feel it is mostly laughable that guys think that nearly real time pics of mature bucks makes them so much easier to kill. Just try sneaking within bow range of a big buck that has likely already moved off in an undeterminable direction. I know that I am not that good, but I suppose there are a few that could. The ones that i know aren't relying on cell cams.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I have to disagree. If it helps you shoot your target deer then how can it not be considered a benefit to the herd?

With that’s said why bother having an archery season at all? Just make it modern rifles all year. My understanding was bow seasons are in place to allow hunter opportunities for those who choose to put in the effort without making the success rate unsustainable. Crossbows are not archery in my eyes.
On the topic of cell cams, I’ve already heard stories of people moving on deer after getting a real time pic. That isn’t hunting. If it is why not just fly a drone around and sit at the cabin until you spot one you want in a field and go after him. Ridiculous

 

[Barndog56]

No one has ever come around looking for a deer that I killed with a crossbow. If I don't tell anyone I killed a deer, no one would ever know. If I don't tell anyone I use a crossbow, no one would ever know.

There are a million deer in Wisconsin, if I harvest a couple with a compound or a crossbow should make no difference to anyone else.

 

[SwampCat]

With that’s said why bother having an archery season at all? Just make it modern rifles all year. My understanding was bow seasons are in place to allow hunter opportunities for those who choose to put in the effort without making the success rate unsustainable. Crossbows are not archery in my eyes.
On the topic of cell cams, I’ve already heard stories of people moving on deer after getting a real time pic. That isn’t hunting. If it is why not just fly a drone around and sit at the cabin until you spot one you want in a field and go after him. Ridiculous

I am just curious - do you really believe crossbows provide enough advantage to be on par with a modern rifle to just make it “modern rifle all year long”? Crossbow hunters have a five month, either sex season in my state and account for 5.4% of the harvest. Rifle hunters kill twice as many There is no handicap requirement to use a crossbow - same as a compound. Verticle bow hunters account for 8.3% of the harvest with the same season as crossbow hunters. Muzzle loader hunters killed 11.3% of the total - a nine day season and they killed twice as many as crossbow hunters killed in five months.

I have used a crossbow sporadically for three years and have never killed a deer with a crossbow that I wouldnt have killed with my compound. I have failed to kill the biggest deer in my life while using a crossbow that I would have killed with my compound. I had shot a nice buck and immediately a much larger buck ran right up to where the first deer was standing at 17 yards. I could not recock the crossbow with him right there. He milled around for 15 minutes. I have no doubt I would have gotten another arrow on the string if I had my compound.

I have one of the better crossbows, and in a hunting situation, 40 yards would be my maximum shot. I have hunted with a recurve and compound bow for fifty years, and my maximum shot under hunting conditions would be 35 yards with my compound. I have seen a doe string duck a ravin crossbow at 30 yards.

But In no way would would I even hint that a crossbow takes the same amount of skill to use as a compound bow. But I can also remember when My dad was living in Georgia in the late 70’s and compounds were legalized for hunting and my dad thought they did not live up to the standards of fair chase and called compounds “cheaters” until the day he died.

It is much easier to kill a deer with a muzzle loader or a modern rifle than it is a crossbow - yet it doesnt seem like folks have nearly the heartache with those methods. In my state, Rifle hunters kill almost twice as many deer the first day of season as crossbow hunters kill in five months. If we based allowable weapon use strictly on fair chase - we wouldnt allow a rifle in the woods. If crossbow use ever results in a negative impact on the herd, they need to be further restricted - just like every other weapon.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I am just curious - do you really believe crossbows provide enough advantage to be on par with a modern rifle to just make it “modern rifle all year long”? Crossbow hunters have a five month, either sex season in my state and account for 5.4% of the harvest. Rifle hunters kill twice as many There is no handicap requirement to use a crossbow - same as a compound. Verticle bow hunters account for 8.3% of the harvest with the same season as crossbow hunters. Muzzle loader hunters killed 11.3% of the total - a nine day season and they killed twice as many as crossbow hunters killed in five months.

I have used a crossbow sporadically for three years and have never killed a deer with a crossbow that I wouldnt have killed with my compound. I have failed to kill the biggest deer in my life while using a crossbow that I would have killed with my compound. I had shot a nice buck and immediately a much larger buck ran right up to where the first deer was standing at 17 yards. I could not recock the crossbow with him right there. He milled around for 15 minutes. I have no doubt I would have gotten another arrow on the string if I had my compound.

I have one of the better crossbows, and in a hunting situation, 40 yards would be my maximum shot. I have hunted with a recurve and compound bow for fifty years, and my maximum shot under hunting conditions would be 35 yards with my compound. I have seen a doe string duck a ravin crossbow at 30 yards.

But In no way would would I even hint that a crossbow takes the same amount of skill to use as a compound bow. But I can also remember when My dad was living in Georgia in the late 70’s and compounds were legalized for hunting and my dad thought they did not live up to the standards of fair chase and called compounds “cheaters” until the day he died.

It is much easier to kill a deer with a muzzle loader or a modern rifle than it is a crossbow - yet it doesnt seem like folks have nearly the heartache with those methods. In my state, Rifle hunters kill almost twice as many deer the first day of season as crossbow hunters kill in five months. If we based allowable weapon use strictly on fair chase - we wouldnt allow a rifle in the woods. If crossbow use ever results in a negative impact on the herd, they need to be further restricted - just like every other weapon.

No, by no means do I believe they provide the same advantage as a gun but the original statement was that if it provides an advantage in success how can it be bad for the herd or something along those lines. If that’s the end game just make it rifle season year round

It’s philosophical and I’m not trying or going to convince someone otherwise, these are my thoughts. Crossbows are not archery equipment to me. Becoming proficient takes years in archery, getting drawn on a deer can be difficult and effective range is less than a crossbow. Do I lay in bed worrying about it, hell no but it was a discussion so that was my take.

With that it seems if a person takes a stance which is more restrictive than the law that person seems to be met with a level of disdain (by no means am I saying that about you). The line is always “as long as its legal why do you care...” To me legality doesn’t equal morality. If I believe something isn’t moral in my eyes but the law allows it, I will refrain. I’m not that hard up to kill something that I need to sacrifice my morals to do so.

 

[SwampCat]

No, by no means do I believe they provide the same advantage as a gun but the original statement was that if it provides an advantage in success how can it be bad for the herd or something along those lines. If that’s the end game just make it rifle season year round

It’s philosophical and I’m not trying or going to convince someone otherwise, these are my thoughts. Crossbows are not archery equipment to me. Becoming proficient takes years in archery, getting drawn on a deer can be difficult and effective range is less than a crossbow. Do I lay in bed worrying about it, hell no but it was a discussion so that was my take.

With that it seems if a person takes a stance which is more restrictive than the law that person seems to be met with a level of disdain (by no means am I saying that about you). The line is always “as long as its legal why do you care...” To me legality doesn’t equal morality. If I believe something isn’t moral in my eyes but the law allows it, I will refrain. I’m not that hard up to kill something that I need to sacrifice my morals to do so.

I agree. I have killed over 100 deer with a compound and a recurve. I went for fifteen years and never hunted with a modern rifle for deer. I was getting bored with a compound and picked up a rifle and started enjoying the hunting aspect of the sport much more. I still kill many more deer with a compound than anything else - because I put constraints on myself with other methods that I would not if I had a compound bow in hand. I only hunt from the ground and not in a blind with a crossbow - and I find that much more difficult to kill a deer than from a tree with a compound. The compounds we hunt with today are vastly different than those of 25 years ago. I gave my wife a bow for Christmas ten years ago. She had never drawn a bow in her life. We sighted it in that afternoon and she killed a deer with it the next morning with a total of thirty practice shots under her belt. That didnt happen when we were all shooting recurves.

I am still a newbie when it comes to crossbow hunting. And I disdained a crossbow until I was forced to use one because of back surgery. I also was unable to use a tree stand and started hunting from the ground with a crossbow and really started enjoying the sport again. Just walk out in the woods and sit down and hunt. Even after I got where I could hunt with my compound, I still hunted with the crossbow some. It is still a lot easier for me to kill deer with a compound in a tree than a crossbow on the ground.

I have moved past that of being a purist. I have hunted with a compound, a recurve, an AR 15, a muzzle loader, and a crossbow in the span of four days. Enjoyed them all, and didnt kill anything. A weapon - of any kind - gives me an excuse to be in the woods. And by far the majority of hunts, I am not going to use my weapon, even if I have the chance. But, I still hold a traditional archer above everyone else - that method is just in a class by itself. But I dont think any more of a deer killed with a compound than I do with a .300 Win Mag. If you are happy with the deer you kill, I am happy for you.

 

[Telemark]

Most cell cams are use by folks that don't have deer management in mind

Where does that information come from?

And why is intent a requisite for benefit?

 

[Telemark]

If that’s the end game just make it rifle season year round

We only have a rifle season where I hunt now. September 1 til December 23. This makes it necessary for the government to determine the type of deer we shoot, with regard to age and sex. The thinking is that certain deer will be allocated to hunters for harvest, but the biologists want those deer killed, so hunters are given the advantage of a 4 month rifle season.

Bows of any kind are firbidden, as are all rifles less powerful than a 6.5x55.

 

[Telemark]

With that’s said why bother having an archery season at all? Just make it modern rifles all year. My understanding was bow seasons are in place to allow hunter opportunities for those who choose to put in the effort without making the success rate unsustainabl

You just answered your own question.

I think it's important to understand that not everyone has the same goals. And not everyone has the same opportunities. In a free society that holds liberty up as its most important value, we have to accept that other people might not agree with us. My goals for wildlife management might not be the same as yours. There is no right answer when it comes to resource management. There's just individuals with their individual opinions. We have to make room for as many of those opinions as reasonably possible.

 

[roymunson]

Ask, and you shall receive:

well, I don't hate to see that.

That's a great one

 

[roymunson]

Heard from an ODNR biologist yesterday that they found CWD in Wyandot County Ohio from the firearms season.

He also referred to feeding corn as "yellow piles of cocaine" HAHA

Selfishly, I'd be find if they outlawed baiting as I finally have enough acreage that I could draw and hold deer all year long with food plots.

It'd also keep the guys with 20 acres from feeding so much corn that they kill deer off of it like they own 200 acres.

 

[roymunson]

I personally feel it is mostly laughable that guys think that nearly real time pics of mature bucks makes them so much easier to kill. Just try sneaking within bow range of a big buck that has likely already moved off in an undeterminable direction. I know that I am not that good, but I suppose there are a few that could. The ones that i know aren't relying on cell cams.

Its not "realtime" pictures that have got bucks killed for us using cell cams.

I've personally killed 1 where he was feeding just before daylight in the late season. So we knew he was bedding close by, and got my butt into the blind before dark knowing he'd come back that evening. He did.

Other ones have allowed us to see where a buck was "trending" for several days in a row without having to go in and disturb the area. Biggest buck we killed on the farm was on his feet monday morning in a food plot this year. Tuesday morning he got shot because we knew he was in the area. Cell cams are a game changer.

Plus, its more entertaining than cable the last 2 hours of daylight every night.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I’ve already heard stories of people moving on deer after getting a real time pic. That isn’t hunting. If it is why not just fly a drone around and sit at the cabin until you spot one you want in a field and go after him. Ridiculous

I am reminded of a thread on the old forum where a fairly new member....DonMcJr. or something like that...was home for lunch and saw a buck walk past one of his live cameras. He snuck into his stand and then began posting live updates on the thread he started...he saw the buck and it walked off and "what should I do guys?" and that type of stuff. He ended up killing the buck. It was a small 120 spike or 4 pointer, but he was convinced it was an old, worn out 7 year old. Been hunting for 25 years and knew it was an old deer. It was the most absurd thread, and the most absurd hunt.

For my personal tastes, too much technology, too much internet, too much Tapatalk, too much bad information in the wrong hands...and a good example of how some hunters have lost their way.

Anybody remember that one?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I am reminded of a thread on the old forum where a fairly new member....DonMcJr. or something like that...was home for lunch and saw a buck walk past one of his live cameras. He snuck into his stand and then began posting live updates on the thread he started...he saw the buck and it walked off and "what should I do guys?" and that type of stuff. He ended up killing the buck. It was a small 120 spike or 4 pointer, but he was convinced it was an old, worn out 7 year old. Been hunting for 25 years and knew it was an old deer. It was the most absurd thread, and the most absurd hunt.

For my personal tastes, too much technology, too much internet, too much Tapatalk, too much bad information in the wrong hands...and a good example of how some hunters have lost their way.

Anybody remember that one?

guy on another forum I observe sometimes last year was in a stand, had his camera go off and had a nice buck at a feeder a ways off, got down, walked over and killed it. And then posted the story and pic like he was Daniel Boone. It was disgusting.

 

[roymunson]

I am reminded of a thread on the old forum where a fairly new member....DonMcJr. or something like that...was home for lunch and saw a buck walk past one of his live cameras. He snuck into his stand and then began posting live updates on the thread he started...he saw the buck and it walked off and "what should I do guys?" and that type of stuff. He ended up killing the buck. It was a small 120 spike or 4 pointer, but he was convinced it was an old, worn out 7 year old. Been hunting for 25 years and knew it was an old deer. It was the most absurd thread, and the most absurd hunt.

For my personal tastes, too much technology, too much internet, too much Tapatalk, too much bad information in the wrong hands...and a good example of how some hunters have lost their way.

Anybody remember that one?

Wouldn't get my engine started, but hey, end game is we're killing deer. Not discussing biblical morality. Go have fun.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Wouldn't get my engine started, but hey, end game is we're killing deer. Not discussing biblical morality. Go have fun.

Maybe but I personally view taking something’s life as a pretty decent responsibility. I choose not to cheapen it because of the finality of the act. It’s not catch and release.

 

[roymunson]

Maybe but I personally view taking something’s life and a pretty decent responsibility. I choose not to cheapen it because of the finality of the act. It’s not catch and release.

That's fine, but you said "you personally". Projecting your personal views on someone else is a pretty muddy thing to start on.

I digress, I get where you're coming from and generally agree with you. But I also know, there are differing goals out there, and the line of what's ok for some is different than the line for others.