High Grading, Bait, Cams and Crossbows is no good for anyone!

[BenAllgood]

I'm not giving up my cell cam. I have mine set to only send pics once a day. So, maybe just limit it to not being able to send instant pics. That's where the rub is for most people.

 

[PatinPA]

I wonder what percentage of hunters would pass up a 140" 2 year old in favor of shooting a 120" 4 year old?

I passed up a buck this fall that would fit the requirements to be shot by a lot of guys. I think he's a minimum of 4.5 and would score maybe 130ish, a heavy, narrow rack with 8" brows and some real nice H measurements. He seems to have moved right in after the best buck got shot across the fence the prior day. My criteria for a long time has been to shoot only a buck I want to shoulder mount. By shooting this guy, I'd accomplish: removing inferior genes (but that's already been agreed upon to not make any difference), using up my only gun buck tag, getting a lot of meat that doesn't taste as good as a doe, removing a buck that might be taking up the space of a better buck (but what if the space gets filled by one even worse?), having another rack that gets tossed in a tub of antlers at the toolshed (limited wallspace). I guess for me, it comes down to maybe I'll shoot him late in the season, if given another chance, because the pros outweigh the cons, but before then I can still hold out hope some unknown monster strolls by

That is similar to our situation. We had big bucks before apr's but after the 4 pt on one side went into effect (we have a lot of 8 pt yearlings and a few with 9 and 10 pts that are not off limits but....) It made a big difference in only 2 seasons. The have since removed the APR but it is here to stay because the hunter saw how it helped grow bigger bucks. Most hunters in my area pass several bucks before harvesting one unless they just plain get lucky. (Which is a big part of hunting anyway)

Sigh. I have to talk my dad out of shooting a 40 inch 6 point every year even though he's killed his two biggest buck ever in the last couple of years. I wouldn't care if he needed the meat but he donates it anyway. And he refuses to shoot a doe instead. That's the PA mentality. Shoot the first legal buck and don't shoot doe. Basically the exact opposite of what should be done. Gary Alt who first introduced antler restrictions and increased doe killing through the Game Commission received death threats and eventually retired. Only now 20 years later people are finally starting to get it. We still don't shoot enough doe though, myself included.

 

[Mortenson]

I was kidding, lighten up. But just be aware there are areas looking at making cameras illegal.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

A law?...really?...I, for one, don’t want a stinking law telling me how I can use a cell camera...that would be real close to communism in my book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are already there im afraid.

 

[SD51555]

I suppose if a person had enough acres like the OP, you could have an impact on herd quality. I think the typical person is going to go crazy trying to do it on a smaller scale and end up not having any fun or anyone to hunt with. If I had the acreage to have my own ecosystem, I'd sell most of it and keep 40 acres for every person I desire to provide free hunting, and then fence it. All your age, genetics, and neighbor issues are solved, and there doesn't need to be dozens of partners or tens of millions of dollars sunk into the pursuit of big bucks.

 

[SD51555]

MN for example can grow some of the biggest wild deer in North America. Most just don't make it past two years old. The DNR's mistake in SE MN created one of the finest regions for big buck production anywhere.

 

[Mortenson]

What was the mistake?

 

[bwoods11]

MN for example can grow some of the biggest wild deer in North America. Most just don't make it past two years old. The DNR's mistake in SE MN created one of the finest regions for big buck production anywhere.

The Minnesota DNR in partnership with MNDOT just built a tunnel under a highway so deer will travel there instead of getting hit on the highway. You can see for yourself if you google it. Highway 14 in Dodge County. The cost was $219,000 to put in the tunnel. I kid you not! These are the people in charge of our deer management.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

But just to stir the pot.

Dont think cell cams should be legal.

Crossbows should only be legal with permit during the archery season.
Otherwise put them with muzeloaders.

All baiting including mineral should be illegal.

And trespassing fees doubled, just since we are shooting for the moon.

can you run for office? I will be your campaign manager

 

[SD51555]

What was the mistake?

They gave those guys antler point restrictions thinking it'd put more pressure on does harvested if guys weren't allowed to shoot young bucks. In a few short years, those young bucks turned into monsters, and now those guys don't want to waste tags on meat deer when they've got multiple magazine bucks per square mile running around.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

They gave those guys antler point restrictions thinking it'd put more pressure on does harvested if guys weren't allowed to shoot young bucks. In a few short years, those young bucks turned into monsters, and now those guys don't want to waste tags on meat deer when they've got multiple magazine bucks per square mile running around.

And now you can shoot unlimited bucks during disease management seasons for $2.50 each.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

And farmers with depredation tags can shoot unlimited deer (bucks or does) year round 24 hours a day with or without artificial lights and with no weapon restrictions in a shotgun only zone.

 

[bwoods11]

They gave those guys antler point restrictions thinking it'd put more pressure on does harvested if guys weren't allowed to shoot young bucks. In a few short years, those young bucks turned into monsters, and now those guys don't want to waste tags on meat deer when they've got multiple magazine bucks per square mile running around.

God forbid that we have a buck live past age 3 in MN!!!

 

[Troubles Trees]

Interesting topic and thread with a lot of good input to read through. I think the concept in the initial post is valid but some of the counterpoints, particularly the technology jump in today's equipment, is arguable. Most of us don't manage enough land to try and manage a deer herd, best we can do is convince our neighbors to pass on the little bucks to show their potential later. I am surrounded by meat hunters lol
The point of Crossbows killing all the big bucks before gun season is arguable also. Here is a guy using a compound with no arms shooting cheezits at 100 yards :)

 

[Telemark]

Over the past several years we have had multiple different 3 y/o bucks on camera each season that gross over 150". At least one of them gets harvested every year. We have good dirt and a good mix of ag and cover in the driftless area. It is the same all over the area. We have had a number of 5 year old 8 pts over the years that would barely make P&Y and we have also had a few 8 pts that gross over 150". That is is a huge 8 pt. Our problem is just getting the bucks to survive through enough seasons to express their potential. It is rare in our area for a 5 year old buck with 10 typical points to not gross 150". 170" is rare for any buck but for us i firmly believe they never reach that mark because the rack doesn't get any bigger once it's hanging on the wall.

Do you think the limestone helps?

 

[Telemark]

I wonder what percentage of hunters would pass up a 140" 2 year old in favor of shooting a 120" 4 year old?

I probably couldn't tell the difference unless they were standing next to each other.

 

[Telemark]

How about a law that if you have cell cams, you must be 150+ miles away? Seems if you live on your hunting property, cell cams may be a tad unfair. If you live out of state, the need changes somewhat.

How are they unfair?

 

[Mortenson]

Note I said "a tad". That's not super unfair. Probably about as unfair as using firearms, treestands, or nose jammer. It's all relative.

 

[Telemark]

Does Nose Jammer work?

 

[Mortenson]

Never did try it. Hang on I'll ask my buddy real quick and report back. I nicnamed him the GOAT. Actually I just call him that to his brother. He doesn't know about it.

Edit - he texted back "I love that stuff. Works for me"