Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Hahaha it was like everytime I mentioned something the next response was he has a low fence! I was like I KNOW!!!Little testy aint you. Did not know someone had already mentioned it.
It just got funny not testy
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Herd management?
- Thread starter Catscratch
- Start date
It just got funny not testy
Badgers80
5 year old buck +
Love how the shape of him goes from his shoulders, squeezes in a bit and then his massive neck bulges it back out
A hog
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Beautiful deer!!!
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
The book has been ordered...
Thanks for the suggestion (I may have to put the Steven King and Dean R Koontz books down for a week or 2)!
BenA
5 year old buck +
Let us know how you like it. The gist of it is this: if you have a lot of 3.5+ bucks, then protect your best 3.5 and 4.5 yo bucks and remove the below average 3.5 and 4.5 yo bucks. This lets you see what those best bucks look like with ample resources at 5.5+
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
That's spot on with what I've been doing. I'll likely enjoy the read. Thanks again for the recommendation!
That is what we do. I have several folks hunt my place. There are nearly enough 150’s to go around. There are quite a few inferior bucks. Shooting those deer satisfies the desire to “kill a deer”, puts meat in the freezer, provides tracking opportunity for the younger hunters, and camaraderie around the skinning pole. A win all the way around.
BenA
5 year old buck +
About how many 3.5 and 4.5 yo bucks do you have on your DO NOT SHOOT list each year? And, about how many 3.5 and 4.5 yo bucks are on your SHOOT list?
BenA
5 year old buck +
I think just maybe MSU Deer Lab monitors this forum? They just posted a series of videos on YT in this playlist called "Buck Selective Harvest Strategies"
youtube.com
Buck Selective Harvest Strategies
An understanding of the factors that account for regional variation in growth outputs of white-tailed deer is required to make informed decisions and develop...
youtube.com
We consider the 4.5 yr old mature. Very common for them to score as much or more as a 4.5 than a 5.5. Common for them to add a little bit of mass, but lose a point - so we take a quality buck at 4.5 most of the time - if we can. On my camera survey this year - I had about 20 unique bucks on 350 acres. Two really nice mature deer and four or five mature bucks that wont get any better. We killed a wide, short tined ten pt - 5.5 - would have scored about 125. Neighbors killed a big, tall 8 pt - 5.5 - scored low 120’s. The two big deer have not been seen on camera for 3 weeks. Still have a few of the older inferior bucks around. Try not to shoot 3.5 yr old much - except my daughter shot a pretty nice one that she mistook for an older deer - should have been passed - but I was glad for her. Deer below is at least six if not seven yrs old. Never seen him - in season or out - and I live on my land. Always been a five pt. He is my main target buck - leave the others to the kids and grandkids. But, last old timer like that - when I settled he crosshairs on him, let him walk. Just didnt see the point in shooting
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
Some fun stuff in the MSU Deer Lab that BenAllGood linked!
The first thing I found significant is that wild deer tend to average max antler growth at 6.5yrs of age. The curve leading to that is a percentage of max. So a deer that's 2.5 yrs old is likely to be around 60% of their max size, a deer at 3.5 is likely 80% of their max.
I think aging on-the-hoof on deer over 3.5 is next to impossible for me, but I think I can do ok with 2.5 and 3.5's since I tend to have decent histories with a lot of the deer were I hunt. So... if I'm looking at a 3.5 that I think will score 120 then I can assume no matter how long he lives it's likely he won't get much over 150. To hope for some 170+ bucks to be around I need to pass on the 135-140 3.5yr olds. The same deer would be around 100 as a 2.5.
The first thing I found significant is that wild deer tend to average max antler growth at 6.5yrs of age. The curve leading to that is a percentage of max. So a deer that's 2.5 yrs old is likely to be around 60% of their max size, a deer at 3.5 is likely 80% of their max.
I think aging on-the-hoof on deer over 3.5 is next to impossible for me, but I think I can do ok with 2.5 and 3.5's since I tend to have decent histories with a lot of the deer were I hunt. So... if I'm looking at a 3.5 that I think will score 120 then I can assume no matter how long he lives it's likely he won't get much over 150. To hope for some 170+ bucks to be around I need to pass on the 135-140 3.5yr olds. The same deer would be around 100 as a 2.5.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I would say it depends on where you're at in the country and your soil profiles. A 140 3.5yr old (with the 80% average rule) would be a 175 5.5yr old. But, if you follow your area's bell curve for antler size a top 1% buck may only be a 150. Ohio's top 1% buck on the bell curve might be a 200. To answer your question where I live I wouldn't put it past a deer to grow a 140 rack on his 3rd year.
BenA
5 year old buck +
Or, he's one of the top end 3.5 yo bucks all the way on the right of the graph, and could be close to 180.
I was typing while Catscratch was. They talked about this in the videos. It does no good to judge by antlers alone if you're not taking age into consideration.
I agree. What I usually see in my area is the glass ceiling that he was referring to in the video. I usually get pics of lets say 7 bucks which are around 135 to 140 and maybe one buck that is 150s. Well everyone sits sites on the one 150 and someone kills that deer and then we still have several bucks which are 135 inches and probably many are at least 4.5 to 5.5 years old and probably should be removed. Next year almost same profile. Problem is most hunters think they can age deer on the hoof, but I doubt that fact. Take the rack off a deer and very difficult to age.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Here in Pa., I'd say for most of the state, a 130 to 140 buck is the best any of us will see in our hunting lives. Anyone here who spots a 125 or bigger will be shooting. Bigger bucks can be found, usually in areas with lots of AG for better food sources, and that may skew the age-vs.-rack factor in those places. The biggest bucks taken in Pa. I've seen pictures of in newspapers, magazines, or online - came from areas with lots of AG. SE and SW corners seem to produce the most for BIG bucks. A 2.5 or 3.5 in AG areas will be bigger than the same age buck in wild mountains - typically. No data, just observation over the years.
My point is although I put a great deal of effort in approving the deer herd in my area I am part of the problem. If I don't kill the 150 in my area, then I usually just shoot does and call it good, in reality I should be removing a 5.5year old deer with a rack of 138 but it hard to make that calculation with the brown deer only shows up for 4 seconds at 80 yards
BenA
5 year old buck +
The first and single most important factor in making the management decision of whether to take a buck or let him go is to be able to age him. You can't go any further with a management strategy for bucks if you can't age them. And, there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. If you can't determine maturity either because you don't see the buck long enough or you can't judge the age group, then that is a harvest decision rather than a management decision. You just have to be honest with yourself. There's nothing wrong with shooting what's legal if that's what makes you happy. It's when you shoot a buck, and it doesn't make you happy, that you may want to evaluate what would have made you happy and make the adjustments needed.
I agree aging is what matters, I just don't believe it. I know most hunters can pick out 2.5 and most can pick out fully mature old deer. If I showed 100 pics of bucks all from 3.5 to 5.5yrs with no antlers, I don't think a hunter can get 85% accurate age. I do believe 75% of hunters think they can but I would bet against them. To do what they are suggesting you would need to age the difference between 3.5 and 4.5 and 5.5, I bet no. I watch so called experts In QDMA magazines with racks included almost always had 3 years variations when they had racks and had hours to study it and still almost all disagree.
