Another Hunting Pressure conundrum...

About ten years ago, I was in the same position - some of my 15 adjacent property owners were shooting MY deer - both more than I thought they should be, and smaller than I thought they should be. After enough bitching and whining, I got a meeting together with the state’s head deer biologist, assistant deer biologist, and the local regional biologist. I served them lunch, and we rode all around my place. The could find nothing within reason to advise as far as improving my habitat. My complaints generally centered around my neighbors and what I considered was too liberal bag limits - basically, I wanted everyone else to kill fewer deer, so we could kill more and bigger deer.

G&f basically agreed I had a challenge with 15 adjacent property owners - most of who deer hunted. BUT, they also explained they were having this same type meeting with farmers and insurance companies demanding a decrease in deer density. They told me to try to form some type of co-op with the adjacent landowners that might cater more to my desires. They said they could not manage every little corner of every county to everyone’s benefit. So, basically no help.

I tried to talk to most of the neighbors. Of the six adjacent land owners who owned more than 40 acres, four were agreeable, one was not, and one didnt matter because they were high fenced. The smaller ten and 20 acre land owners saw no benefit. THis is poor country, and most of them were meat hunters. Many of them said they couldnt raise or grow deer on 15 acres and freely admitted they used a corn feeder to draw deer off my property so they could kill the first three to five legal deer they saw to fill their freezers. They were of no help.

It became painfully obvious most of my neighbors would not change their deer hunting ways to benefit my selfishness - as some called me. And they werent lying. I decided then and there it would fall on my shoulders.

Long story short, I implemented a few management practices that changed both my deer numbers and deer quality - over a seven year span. I used to view it as my neighbors were ruining my hunting - and I cant deny, that is the definition of selfishness. I now view it as a game. I try to counter my neighbor’s moves, and improve my playing field. I have more deer now - and maybe a few larger bucks - but we kill a greater share of them than we used to. No, we dont kill booners - nobody has in this county. But we usually kill at least one upper end buck for this area every year.

But, it has become boring. I spent more of my time hunting public where I could kill a deer and not feel like I disrupted my management on my own ground. Then, enter my grand daughters. They brought excitement back to hunting. No, I have not abandoned my management goals, but I have relaxed them. I get much more excited to see one of my grand daughters kill a basket racked 8 pt than me killing a 150” deer. The infrequency of harvesting only the very top end deer had become extremely boring to me - and the grand daughters have brought back excitement and me back to my senses. Even my 45 year old son admitted this last weekend we were ruined.
 
About ten years ago, I was in the same position - some of my 15 adjacent property owners were shooting MY deer - both more than I thought they should be, and smaller than I thought they should be. After enough bitching and whining, I got a meeting together with the state’s head deer biologist, assistant deer biologist, and the local regional biologist. I served them lunch, and we rode all around my place. The could find nothing within reason to advise as far as improving my habitat. My complaints generally centered around my neighbors and what I considered was too liberal bag limits - basically, I wanted everyone else to kill fewer deer, so we could kill more and bigger deer.

G&f basically agreed I had a challenge with 15 adjacent property owners - most of who deer hunted. BUT, they also explained they were having this same type meeting with farmers and insurance companies demanding a decrease in deer density. They told me to try to form some type of co-op with the adjacent landowners that might cater more to my desires. They said they could not manage every little corner of every county to everyone’s benefit. So, basically no help.

I tried to talk to most of the neighbors. Of the six adjacent land owners who owned more than 40 acres, four were agreeable, one was not, and one didnt matter because they were high fenced. The smaller ten and 20 acre land owners saw no benefit. THis is poor country, and most of them were meat hunters. Many of them said they couldnt raise or grow deer on 15 acres and freely admitted they used a corn feeder to draw deer off my property so they could kill the first three to five legal deer they saw to fill their freezers. They were of no help.

It became painfully obvious most of my neighbors would not change their deer hunting ways to benefit my selfishness - as some called me. And they werent lying. I decided then and there it would fall on my shoulders.

Long story short, I implemented a few management practices that changed both my deer numbers and deer quality - over a seven year span. I used to view it as my neighbors were ruining my hunting - and I cant deny, that is the definition of selfishness. I now view it as a game. I try to counter my neighbor’s moves, and improve my playing field. I have more deer now - and maybe a few larger bucks - but we kill a greater share of them than we used to. No, we dont kill booners - nobody has in this county. But we usually kill at least one upper end buck for this area every year.

But, it has become boring. I spent more of my time hunting public where I could kill a deer and not feel like I disrupted my management on my own ground. Then, enter my grand daughters. They brought excitement back to hunting. No, I have not abandoned my management goals, but I have relaxed them. I get much more excited to see one of my grand daughters kill a basket racked 8 pt than me killing a 150” deer. The infrequency of harvesting only the very top end deer had become extremely boring to me - and the grand daughters have brought back excitement and me back to my senses. Even my 45 year old son admitted this last weekend we were ruined.
Awesome well written!
 
Well said, Swamp. I don't disagree with any of this. I don't have grandkids, but I have 3 boys 11 and under who love to be out there with Dad. It may be time to ratchet back expectations.

2 things have come up around this topic in our hunting circle the last week.

1. The neighbor we blame for shooting all the smaller bucks. legitimately wants to kill the old deer on his farm. He's just not good at aging them yet. He doesn't run cameras for religious reasons, so he doesn't know what's out there. And can't take himself out of the adrenaline rush when a deer's walking in to properly age a deer. He thinks he's killing the mature 4 year olds. His goal is great. But we may have an opportunity to educate and talk to a guy like that to see if we can help him with becomeing a better woodsman and aging deer on the hoof. (and if he wants to shoot a younger deer, thats his call). But in his mind, he's killing the oldest deer on his property each year. Can't fault a guy for that.

2. We all agree neighbors have a lot to do with the ability to let a deer reach maturity. We have a lot of neighbors at this piece that will make that difficult. This piece also has a pond and quad trails and is a lot of fun outside of hunting season. We talked about keeping our eyes open for the farm with the "right neighbors" like a large ag farmer who is selective on who hunts his place and keeps the pressure low. If that farm becomes available, find a way to hunt trophy aged deer there and keep this place as a "family farm" where you take your daughter's boyfriend who didn't grow up hunting. Let him shoot what makes him happy, and have a real heart to heart about taking care of your daughter in the dark... over a gut pile... with a knife in your hand... that kinda thing... hahahaha

We all hold value in different places. For everything. You're not going to get everyone to align with our value. That's ok.

Do the best we can and have fun sitting behind some dead deer, hopefully i get to witness one of my kids scorch one this weekend.
 
You have two more b&c deer running around than 90% of the deer hunters in the country. Pretty sure no b&c deer has EVER been killed in my county. How many 5 yr old bucks do your five hunters kill in an average year and do you kill any lesser bucks?
It seems to alternate years for us. Last year we killed 2 5 year olds and 3 4 year olds. of the 4 year olds killed, 1 was my 10 year old shooting, the other was another youth, and the third was a 22 year old kid who mistook him for a different buck.

But 3 of those 5 deer were killed out of the same blind. (on my buddy's property. I get on his case because every single deer in the county comes past that stand... and I don't have a stand like that)

Your lack of B&C deer is not a product of age probably as much as our area has hundreds of acres of ag. Corn, alfalfa, and beans. However, I've never seen a booner on the hoof. I've never killed one that had over 140" of antler, personally. Being a husband, dad of young kids, and having my own small business, getting away to hunt as much as I'd like has been tough. I full acknowledge the fact that I need more hours with my butt in the stand to kill some of those deer.

I'm trying to find the joy in habitat work and watching a deer use the habitat as I'd envisioned. And that's rewarding.
 
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