Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?
- Thread starter Howboutthemdawgs
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I have read pages of this thread and found some things interesting.
Overall, there is nothing new in these discussions. The few of us old timers left, hashed this over almost 25 years ago on the QDMA forums before they shut down the forum.
Just some suggestions here. Hunting and land management are supposed to be fun. If they are no longer fun, something has to change.
1. Change your goals and appreciate what you have got.
2. Or change your weapon or time of hunt to enjoy it more.
3. Or move. Do it while you are younger, as most tree planting, NWSG, fruit trees etc take 5-10 years to make a difference.
I am at the age where I probably shouldn’t be planning for management or a hunt 10 years from now. Five years might be about it.
I need to just enjoy each fall I get to hunt and TRY not to be critical of neighbors and friends. Remember guys, it is only a deer and there are usually other nice deer in the neighborhood. Don’t ruin a hunt for a youngster or a neighbor or friend by being too critical of the legal deer they choose to kill.
We all have goals in hunting and they change as you age. My goals have surely changed.
It is supposed to be FUN, or you better change something or quit.
Overall, there is nothing new in these discussions. The few of us old timers left, hashed this over almost 25 years ago on the QDMA forums before they shut down the forum.
Just some suggestions here. Hunting and land management are supposed to be fun. If they are no longer fun, something has to change.
1. Change your goals and appreciate what you have got.
2. Or change your weapon or time of hunt to enjoy it more.
3. Or move. Do it while you are younger, as most tree planting, NWSG, fruit trees etc take 5-10 years to make a difference.
I am at the age where I probably shouldn’t be planning for management or a hunt 10 years from now. Five years might be about it.
I need to just enjoy each fall I get to hunt and TRY not to be critical of neighbors and friends. Remember guys, it is only a deer and there are usually other nice deer in the neighborhood. Don’t ruin a hunt for a youngster or a neighbor or friend by being too critical of the legal deer they choose to kill.
We all have goals in hunting and they change as you age. My goals have surely changed.
It is supposed to be FUN, or you better change something or quit.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I just got to add a few more words.
QDM is one form of deer management. It is not the only type or necessarily the best type of deer management. Too many times it has been proposed as the best type. There is trophy management. Traditional management ( whatever that is in your area). Disease management which should have two forms, one for early in an outbreak and one for when it is endemic.
I was a fan of QDM for about 20 years. I feel it has been promoted to the extreme.
QDM is one form of deer management. It is not the only type or necessarily the best type of deer management. Too many times it has been proposed as the best type. There is trophy management. Traditional management ( whatever that is in your area). Disease management which should have two forms, one for early in an outbreak and one for when it is endemic.
I was a fan of QDM for about 20 years. I feel it has been promoted to the extreme.
MN Slick
5 year old buck +
I've owned a farm Extreme Northern Missouri since 2005 that is right on the border of Iowa. I've literally rattled in bucks from Iowa. Needless to say, the terrain, cover, genetics, and nutrition are all on par with Southern IA. Up until about 2018 it was fantastic, with many giants to chase over the years. Now days, the difference in the quality of bucks on my farm vs. a buddy just 4-5 miles into Iowa is signicant. The reasons: far more hunting pressure in the area now, the DNR sharp shot deer 3-4 miles away up until 2021 due to CWD, crossbows were legalized in 2016 (yes, I said it), youths have a 2nd rifle season, And as of this year, they added another 5 days of rifle season in CWD zones. They want deer dead in MO.
That was my long way of saying Iowa is Iowa because of it's regulations.
That was my long way of saying Iowa is Iowa because of it's regulations.
I feel like my experience is almost the exact opposite of everyone else but I'm from PA so what would I know? My first deer hunt was in the year 2000 so I've only got 23 seasons under my belt for comparison. Despite the doom and gloom I read about every single day on PA hunting forums, deer hunting gets better every year. The racks on my wall are getting bigger. The pool of mature bucks to pursue is greater. The buck to doe ratio is improving. I'm living in the glory days every time I put on my camo and walk into the woods.
That is as good a comparison as you can get - if your 5 year old bucks are the same size as your buddy in Iowa - but there just arent as many of them - that points right to regulations
Without a doubt they do around here
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
I think in many of the midwest states where we feel things are going backwards, the trend is looser regulations in concert with better technology that makes it easier to kill bucks. I've never hunted anywhere near PA but i've read a lot of folks crediting antler point restrictions and focus on doe harvest changing the quality of hunting. Here's one example that credits PA with doing the opposite of what some of us are saying is hurting midwest deer hunting: https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...-pennsylvania-deer-controversy-20-years-later
In MN our state deer "conservation organization" that is the only real hunter's voice for regulation changes opposes APR, supports xbows for all in archery season, and generally aligns with things that make it easy as possible to kill any living buck.
I agree, our delta ground, that looks a lot like iowa - except it is flat - produces most of our state’s big bucks. They look like Iowa deer. Good mass and heavy deer. Move out of the delta and into the mountains or pine thickets, and antler mass and body mass decrease. I see some increase in the number of bigger deer now outside the delta due to a lot of people protein feeding. We have seen it ourselves.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Absolutely.
My cousin lives on 40 acres. He had 12 hunters on it opening day of rifle season! It's insanity. When someone has 20 or 40 acres it seems common to at least invite some family members and friends who dont have land to come hunt. A 20 or 40 doesn't leave much ground untouched. If a guy has a couple hundred acres, its' pretty easy to at least leave some area untouched.
APR’s were a huge game changer in my area - where our deer typically have smaller antlers. The folks in farm country arent as fond of them, as they claim a 3 pt on one side reg culls their best 1.5 yr old deer - where as in my area - it protects most of the 1.5 yr old deer. A 1.5 yr old 8 pt in my area is almost a unicorn.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
That is not even safe. Good lord
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
No kidding. I can't imagine they were all on stand at the same time but it's insanity. Only other person that has hunted my 40 this year is my dad. And before we left the truck we talked with the closest neighbor with 1 hunter about where we'd be and shot angles..
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
To me it boils down to trigger control and genetics with nutrition being a far third place. Minnesota lead the nation for a long time in B&C bucks. The majority of those deer were coming from the expansive forests up North. Age is by far the biggest factor. Those bucks weren't eating soybeans and alfalfa like they get in South East Minnesota. They were eating early successional growth that followed timber harvests and/or fires.
Nature will provide an adequate nutritional plane for a buck to reach B&C if the age and genetics are there. I see it time and time again as deer walk past our food plots to eat weeds and acorns. In areas with poor soil/nutrition B&C bucks can be produced but I would wager that (for the most part) an expensive supplemental feeding program will be required.
I have said it on here a few times that it is my belief that in areas with good genetics and nutrition we are over guessing on a bucks age. It is not unusual at all for a good 10 point in my area to be a 150-160" class buck as a 3 year old. Many times we look at the rack and overestimate the age.
Nature will provide an adequate nutritional plane for a buck to reach B&C if the age and genetics are there. I see it time and time again as deer walk past our food plots to eat weeds and acorns. In areas with poor soil/nutrition B&C bucks can be produced but I would wager that (for the most part) an expensive supplemental feeding program will be required.
I have said it on here a few times that it is my belief that in areas with good genetics and nutrition we are over guessing on a bucks age. It is not unusual at all for a good 10 point in my area to be a 150-160" class buck as a 3 year old. Many times we look at the rack and overestimate the age.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Yeah, a basket 6 1.5 YO is pretty damn common up here. Lots of forkys with a little brow tine. 4 pt per side would be preferable.
I'm not a big APR advocate in general due to potential high grading effect but it's clear that a regulation that helps bucks achieve age is helpful. I'd prefer regs that just made it easier for a buck to survive without APR but can see how that might be even harder to get people on board with.
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MN Slick
5 year old buck +
They were back in the peak years but in recent years the ones with high scoring potential haven't been making it to 5 nearly as often.
Tree Spud
5 year old buck +
Regulations have the biggest impact. Genetics and nutrition are important building blocks, but if you are over harvesting young deer, then you will not see the benefit of genetics and nutrition.
Back in the late 90's and 2000's, Wisconsin implemented a program called Ear A Buck (EAB). In many units, especially the southern 2/3's of the sate, we had doe populations that were out of balance with herd control goals. The problem was that the deer hunting culture for many hunters had developed into "you can't shoot does because you will destroy the herd" mindset.
The program required that hunters 1st shoot a doe before they would receive a buck tag. In the years it was implemented, Wis led in B&C entries, helped to reduce the doe population, and allowed for a better age structure to develop. It also appeased the car insurance folks as i believe we had some of our best harvest #'s during that time period. It was misapplied in the north as they did not have the same herd populations that the rest of the state had. Rather than the DNR making adjustments to the program, they simply cancelled it all together.
Back in the late 90's and 2000's, Wisconsin implemented a program called Ear A Buck (EAB). In many units, especially the southern 2/3's of the sate, we had doe populations that were out of balance with herd control goals. The problem was that the deer hunting culture for many hunters had developed into "you can't shoot does because you will destroy the herd" mindset.
The program required that hunters 1st shoot a doe before they would receive a buck tag. In the years it was implemented, Wis led in B&C entries, helped to reduce the doe population, and allowed for a better age structure to develop. It also appeased the car insurance folks as i believe we had some of our best harvest #'s during that time period. It was misapplied in the north as they did not have the same herd populations that the rest of the state had. Rather than the DNR making adjustments to the program, they simply cancelled it all together.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I like to have about one hunter per forty acres and will stay home or just sit with my wife or daughter on opening day to keep pressure down. If we are sharing the stand, I don’t have a gun.
The consensus helps support a point I wanted to make. Fragmentation is mostly just another word for high hunting pressure.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
Yes. More human disturbance in general in addition to hunting pressure. A big chunk is likely to have less of it developed and less other general human use on the landscape.
When every 10, 20, or 40 acres has a house on it, bunch of em have little hobby farms, lots of cruising around on the dirtbikes and atvs, it tends to be lesser habitat in general beyond just the hunting use.
