Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Bowsnbucks]

Rifle season kicked off this weekend with a bang…literally. I imagine this is what Gaza sounds like right now. Got me to thinking. We have undoubtedly been in some high cotton with regards to deer hunting. Numbers are sky high most places and quality has been outstanding where hunters can get out of their own way and let deer live past 3.5. I fear that we are witnessing a technological boom that is increasing the efficacy of hunters to a point where quality (not so much quantity) suffers greatly. It appears anecdotally at least, that the majority of hunters are fine with taking immature bucks. Between getting texts, seeing things online and a trip to the processor, the quality of deer taken this weekend was a bit shocking. Unless you control huge acreages you are at the mercy of the neighborhood.

So operating under that assumption, the access to inexpensive, high quality, lethal gear combined with liberal game laws will absolutely decrease the quality of bucks we have on the landscape. Flat shooting out of the box rifles, cheap high quality optics, crossbows (ugh), bait (ugh), box stands where elements are all but eliminated, real time game cams, just to name a few things that the majority of hunters have with little skin in the game that gives us the advantage over most 2.5/3.5 yr old bucks.

I hope im wrong and the quality of hunting continues forever but I don’t see a scenario where all this tech doesn’t lead us to be victims of our own success. Sure some deer will slip through the cracks, but I think we look back in 10 years and think about how good the 2010-2020 ish timeframe was.

Just found this thread. Sorry I'm behind, and I didn't read all the posts.

As a hunter in Pa. of 50+ years, I can say that our deer numbers are down compared to years ago - but the quality of bucks is better than ever in my lifetime. AR has made a difference for sure, with more bucks getting some age on them. Where years ago here, a 6 or 8 pt. with a spread of 10 inches was a noteworthy kill, now it's common to see 8 pts. of 16 inch spread and 100" to 125" on a regular basis in the summer and early fall. Some of those go down in archery season, but they aren't rare anymore.

Hunter numbers are down here, compared to the 1970's, 1980's, and 2000's. Younger guys not getting into hunting as much as in the past here either.

As for quality / passing on smaller bucks - more guys are doing it here. IMO, seeing more better-racked bucks is incentive to let the smaller guys get some age on them to grow for next year. At our camp, it used to be if we sighted an 8 pt. measuring around 100" - guys would turn themselves inside out to get a shot at him. For a number of years now, after doing some logging (new browse) and planting food plots, we see maybe 8 to 10 good bucks eating together in the same food plot. Other camps in the area are doing much the same - planting food plots, logging, and letting some smaller bucks walk. I personally have been letting lesser (legal) bucks walk for about 10 or more years now. If I'm going to shoot one, and go through the "afterwork", I'd rather it be a big one. Other camp members are doing the same. We have cams out & enjoy watching them grow from one year to the next.

In my home region of Pa. - 3 hours from camp - I know of guys that aren't into shooting smaller bucks either, so size / quality has risen here too. IMO - if I could go back to bigger deer numbers / smaller deer - I'd rather hunt now with a few less deer, but bigger-bodied deer .... bucks and does.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I feel like my experience is almost the exact opposite of everyone else but I'm from PA so what would I know? My first deer hunt was in the year 2000 so I've only got 23 seasons under my belt for comparison. Despite the doom and gloom I read about every single day on PA hunting forums, deer hunting gets better every year. The racks on my wall are getting bigger. The pool of mature bucks to pursue is greater. The buck to doe ratio is improving. I'm living in the glory days every time I put on my camo and walk into the woods.

Agreed. Better now than in the past - at least quality-wise. Does your first name begin with C??

Edit - I might know you.

 

[SwampCat]

Hunter numbers are down in my area, also. Used to see trucks pulled over in every pull off. Rarely see that anymore. Dont see many hunters at the local country store. Very little shooting. More and more folks are content to hunt and not kill a deer - where as in the past, besides camaraderie at camp - the only reason we went was to kill a deer.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Craig Harper believes the next generation of land managers will use native successional planting to accomplish the mutually beneficial goals of "food plots that grow themselves" (once established) and quality browse. His article in the Fall edition of Quality Whitetails discusses this trend. While he does not believe food plots will not go away, they will be used as staging and hidey-hole plots only.

Maybe a southern thing? The stuff I've read from him on this talked about all the great nutrients in some of the native/new secessional growth. The problem I see with much of this is come hunting season in the north, much of the stuff he discusses are dormant/dead and not attractive. I would love it if there was a way to have the same draw in Oct-Dec once temps are mostly below freezing from early secession that cereals, brassicas, corn, and beans have, i'm just skeptical.

 

[sandbur]

Maybe a southern thing? The stuff I've read from him on this talked about all the great nutrients in some of the native/new secessional growth. The problem I see with much of this is come hunting season in the north, much of the stuff he discusses are dormant/dead and not attractive. I would love it if there was a way to have the same draw in Oct-Dec once temps are mostly below freezing from early secession that cereals, brassicas, corn, and beans have, i'm just skeptical.

The top few leaves and Bud’s of popple on new growth can be attractive. Of course, only if they are within the deer’s reach. That only lasts about 2 -3 years after a clear cut.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The top few leaves and Bud’s of popple on new growth can be attractive. Of course, only if they are within the deer’s reach. That only lasts about 2 -3 years after a clear cut.

Definitely. Hopefully have lots of that going just with forest management practices. You could have endless woody browse and a lot of deer are still going to travel to the corn/bean/alfalfa fields at night if they are available. That's not to say that I don't think there is lots to gain from the early secession practices i've seen him cover. In November and December with a winter's full of nothing but woody browse to come, I have hard time seeing buds competing with the draw of tubers, corn, and beans as far as creating deer movement and attraction. That maint every 2-3 years is work just like food plotting.

 

[sandbur]

Definitely. Hopefully have lots of that going just with forest management practices. You could have endless woody browse and a lot of deer are still going to travel to the corn/bean/alfalfa fields at night if they are available. That's not to say that I don't think there is lots to gain from the early secession practices i've seen him cover. In November and December with a winter's full of nothing but woody browse to come, I have hard time seeing buds competing with the draw of tubers, corn, and beans as far as creating deer movement and attraction. That maint every 2-3 years is work just like food plotting.

Agreed. Nothing like standing corn for Minnesota winters.

Some ideas from deer managers only work in certain climates and environments. Maybe all ideas in fact.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Something I have seen discussed occasionally but not really addressed from a research point of view is how much are people hunting now compared to before? Of the hours that people are spending in the stand, how successful are they?

There is zero doubt that there are fewer hunters today than 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Listening to folks older than myself, it seems like the majority of those hunters really only hunted deer for a weekend or two. For those that were serious or more knowledgeable, quality hunting could be had pretty much anywhere. While I am sure that the majority of people who are purchasing licenses today also only hunt a few days of the year, I think across the board people might be more successful. This isn't just true of public land hunting either. Instead of people hunting by permission on some vacant private ground opening weekend on the two 40 acre blocks next-door, they are buying said 40 acre blocks and putting in food plots and hunting throughout the fall and winter. In many areas I think hunting pressure has actually increased, despite the number of hunters going down. Coupled with the fact that habitat is shrinking because of suburban sprawl, it is no wonder some are feeling like the quality of hunting is declining.

I tend to be a glass is half-full kind of person. I think forums like this one and the popularity and accessibility of hunting media shortens the learning curve for hunters and habitat managers. In theory, hunting quality should gradually increase over time for the majority of hunters. With that said, one thing that is somewhat worrying is the human component and how it relates to regulations. People rarely are willing to sacrifice short-term results for long-term gain. I think educating people is going to have to go beyond just how to grow bigger deer, but also extend to policies and regulations that promote this end.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Something I have seen discussed occasionally but not really addressed from a research point of view is how much are people hunting now compared to before? Of the hours that people are spending in the stand, how successful are they?

There is zero doubt that there are fewer hunters today than 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Listening to folks older than myself, it seems like the majority of those hunters really only hunted deer for a weekend or two. For those that were serious or more knowledgeable, quality hunting could be had pretty much anywhere. While I am sure that the majority of people who are purchasing licenses today also only hunt a few days of the year, I think across the board people might be more successful. This isn't just true of public land hunting either. Instead of people hunting by permission on some vacant private ground opening weekend on the two 40 acre blocks next-door, they are buying said 40 acre blocks and putting in food plots and hunting throughout the fall and winter. In many areas I think hunting pressure has actually increased, despite the number of hunters going down. Coupled with the fact that habitat is shrinking because of suburban sprawl, it is no wonder some are feeling like the quality of hunting is declining.

I tend to be a glass is half-full kind of person. I think forums like this one and the popularity and accessibility of hunting media shortens the learning curve for hunters and habitat managers. In theory, hunting quality should gradually increase over time for the majority of hunters. With that said, one thing that is somewhat worrying is the human component and how it relates to regulations. People rarely are willing to sacrifice short-term results for long-term gain. I think educating people is going to have to go beyond just how to grow bigger deer, but also extend to policies and regulations that promote this end.

Good points. And I agree about hunter participation being greater now despite maybe hunter numbers declining. I also think the numbers declining does not out pace the land lost to development, broken up or access lost. There’s not a block of land in my county that is not hunted and I’d wager half the government or industrial ground that is off limits is hunted just as much. Laws don’t deter anyone it seems. I digress.

Laws will not make our hunting quality increase. Technology will most likely not make our hunting quality increase as a net positive. Only like minded individuals with knowledge and restraint will see to it that quality remains in pockets.

 

[SwampCat]

In my country - I disagree with the “less hunters but more time afield”. Compared to up north, our seasons are fairly long - five to ten weeks modern gun. It is almost like the longer seasons get, he less days afield. Folks are waiting for a more perfect day because they have more days to pick from. Back when we had two weeks - we went every day. And folks are so much busier today - at least for those who do work.

 

[Triple C]

Glory days of deer hunting from an older hunter's perspective...
...Hunted any piece of property we saw. Don't ever recall seeing a posted sign in 1969.
...Froze to death. 2 pair of blue jeans and 2 pairs of socks in old boots that were too small.
...Waffle style insulated cotton underwear for Christmas that was pretty much worthless.
...00 buck shot or a slug in a Stevens single barrel shotgun.
...Deer camps were awesome. Mostly on public land. Didn't need a camp when roaming for miles back behind the house with no idea of whose property we were on.
...Getting lost and coming out on some dirt rd to eventually find you way back to the truck. Lost as a 13 yr old was an unnerving experiece.
...Drank water straight from the creek when thirsty. Bottled water wasn't in existence.
...Sitting on a piece or two of lumber nailed to the crotch of a tree.
...No blaze orange or hunters safety certificate. None available at the time.
...Red plastic flashlight with 2 C cell batteries to lug around.
...Never saw a deer while hunting until I was 16. There were hardly any deer back then. Entire seasons without a single sighting.

Give me today boys. Never had it better as a hunter than I do today.

 

[Turkish]

Hunter numbers are down in my area, also. Used to see trucks pulled over in every pull off. Rarely see that anymore. Dont see many hunters at the local country store. Very little shooting. More and more folks are content to hunt and not kill a deer - where as in the past, besides camaraderie at camp - the only reason we went was to kill a deer.

Funny. I can think of examples of the exact opposite to every sentence just east of you in west central MS. Most of all, with lease prices what they are, NOBODY is coming to camp not looking to get their moneys worth.

 

[willy]

Thanks Triple C for that perspective and jarring some memories loose! I agree, from where I started and where it is today, its light years ahead. While most of us recently lived through the highest deer population in most areas of the country, we've now retreated a ways from that, I'm betting most that hunted in the 80, 90's and prior still have it way better today than it was then.

I'd love to see more deer but unless human encroachment and destruction of habitat stops, the trend will continue downward but will still be better than a few decades ago.

 

[SwampCat]

Funny. I can think of examples of the exact opposite to every sentence just east of you in west central MS. Most of all, with lease prices what they are, NOBODY is coming to camp not looking to get their moneys worth.

Really kind of odd now. Very little shooting, here. I have yet to see someone with a dead deer outside of my crew - even though we have had 15 days mg, 9 days ml, and two months archery/crossbow. A small public area down the road a ways would often have two or three vehicles parked at the access areas - have not seen one this year. Just really noticed it this year. A buddy of mine killed a 120” ten pt which is a decent deer here - and his 16 yr old son asked “Dad, why did you shoot that deer - I already passed him twice”. One of the four adults who have hunted my place has fired a shot this year, although they each have seen a legal deer every hunt - including myself. Neither me or my wife has hunted with a firearm this year - first time ever going that long in the 45 yrs we have been married. First time I have ever seen my 35 yr old daughter pass a legal buck. Even my fifteen acre neighbor whose family normally kills five deer a year has yet to hunt. Have not heard a single dog chase. Someone passing through would have no idea deer season is open. Really odd for this area.

 

[Belo]

Honestly it's our generation that has the stage for this and IMO the problem runs way deeper. I read this article the other day and it rings so true. I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of the members on this forum have made deer hunting way "softer" and easier for their children compared to how they were brought into the sport.

Deer hunting offers opportunity to learn from being uncomfortable - The Republic News

At some point in the life of most adults, the tradition of gifts exchanged at Christmas truly becomes more about giving than receiving. You know you’ve made the turn, when pure joy is derived from seeing excitement in others, especially children, and you recognize your own contentment with...

www.therepublic.com

Spot on. I 16 and was stuck in a stand in upstate NY with cotton socks, crappy boots and cotton camo bigs and parka. Froze my ass off and didn't have fun. Was told that this was what it was all about. Now my oldest will be 12 next fall and able to hunt with me. Not only during the gun season, but the new youth weekend over Columbus weekend. I'm already looking at a platform setup that we can both comfortably fit into because it'll provide better shot opportunities than a ground blind.

I think as parents we want our kids to follow in our footsteps so badly that we're willing to try and hand it to them on a silver platter, which in turn sets up unrealistic expectations as they age out of youth season. On one hand, give them success and they may fall in love, give them misery and they might never want to hunt again.

 

[Foggy47]

The deer situation in Northern MN is quite dire in many places. THEN you got folks that claim the Timberwolves actually help the deer population. Who I bull chitting who here? And the sheep believe this crap. I guess you can spin bullchit stats to say whatever you please. Voices need to say otherwise on Facebook and other places. Check it out.....

https://www.facebook.com/VoyageursWolfProject/posts/pfbid02wfQybkx6hqqZSS8RfgUuAdEwgojDYAqEbj3TjdcjzYgw5UtSueXJVSosPPSupQh6l

 

[Tree Spud]

Glory days of deer hunting from an older hunter's perspective...
...Hunted any piece of property we saw. Don't ever recall seeing a posted sign in 1969.
...Froze to death. 2 pair of blue jeans and 2 pairs of socks in old boots that were too small.
...Waffle style insulated cotton underwear for Christmas that was pretty much worthless.
...00 buck shot or a slug in a Stevens single barrel shotgun.
...Deer camps were awesome. Mostly on public land. Didn't need a camp when roaming for miles back behind the house with no idea of whose property we were on.
...Getting lost and coming out on some dirt rd to eventually find you way back to the truck. Lost as a 13 yr old was an unnerving experiece.
...Drank water straight from the creek when thirsty. Bottled water wasn't in existence.
...Sitting on a piece or two of lumber nailed to the crotch of a tree.
...No blaze orange or hunters safety certificate. None available at the time.
...Red plastic flashlight with 2 C cell batteries to lug around.
...Never saw a deer while hunting until I was 16. There were hardly any deer back then. Entire seasons without a single sighting.

Give me today boys. Never had it better as a hunter than I do today.

 

[PoorSand]

Yep, I used to wear boot liners just like those.

 

[Triple C]

Yep, I used to wear boot liners just like those.

Ha! That is too funny and so true. I imagine anyone over 60 reading this has used plastic bread bags over their socks back in the day.

Thought they’d make my leaky army surplus boots waterproof when walking thru morning dew or frost, or crossing a creek.

 

[gjs4]

NY is my primary and the culture here is so bad that I should feel fortunate anything was ever "good". Its a culture, lack of state involvement and enforcement trifecta. The number of adult onset hunters here just keeps going up, and their quality (know how and effort levels) keep going down.

OH is my other home. Noting this year, following EHD, that locals are shooting younger deer under auspices/excuse of "out of staters" coming in like locusts. While there is some truth to that, there is no accountability for becoming the problem they're complaining about. I will also point out (in genuine stereotypical nature) two groups, in addition to the hunting social media and industry sales, that own this mess and decline we all have. Outfitters- they take, put nothing back. Realtors.- whether the schmucks with deer on the signs or others; when youre listing 5 ac and mention game animals or hunting, or you just skyrocket the price of land in the name of recreation....that greed has blood on the back of the bills stuffed in your wallet. Even if random jacked up diesel pickup kid seems like a nice guy....hes just the corner crack slinger for some guy or group that doesnt do a damn thing for hunters, animals or conservation. The 5-50 ac hunting parcel split between buddies is becoming a norm as we allowed for it. Remember when farmers had hedgerows and tractors didnt have GPS?