Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

My son and I set a 1 buck limit on ourselves. 2 of my uncles pressure the shit out of it and luckily for my son and I the uncles aren’t good hunters and can’t shoot straight.


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Hunters are our own worst enemy with this stuff. On another forum I frequent, a guy with some pretty decent ground in SW WI was complaining that his gun season was horrible. He's hunted "every day for at least 4 hours and only saw 6 deer" most of which were fawns. He says he's going to vote for more restrictive tags next season... He then posts pics of him hunting during the subsequent ML season and today posts pics of a doe hanging and fresh venison.

I can't wrap my head around the theory that my hunting style, habitat management, or DPSM is all in a state of decline, but I must keep pounding the woods until I get the venison I need/deserve.
 
I’m at a loss too. Anecdotally I think there is a lot of nefarious stuff down here that may or may not happen there. That would be one. 31 days where people can hunt with a gun. That includes rifle (opened 11/11 this year), muzzleloader and youth, which is all basically adult rifle here. Bait is the big one is annother, maybe the smoking gun? Other than that I can’t say. EHD isn’t a thing. Saw one dead doe in a creek this year but that’s it. We have corn, beans, wheat, clover, cutovers, swamps, hardwoods, etc. I’m hoping something moves in late season for that we can hold till next year.
Dawg, aren’t you pretty new on your place?

Build it and they will come. Use @Native Hunter as your guide. It’s hard to know what the pressure was on your place before you got it.

I haven’t talked to a local yet that hasn’t “hunted” on my place before. After my grandfather in law got old then died, for 20 years it seems my place was the public hunting option of the county.

But I bought it, ran poachers off, have worked my ass off, and I have bucks running everywhere. I think they develop generational patterns based on pressure and food, and it just takes a while to get them back. Young bucks stay close to where their momma raised them. Sure they will go off chasing that poon and many won’t come back, but some will. And they will grow. I think you’re place is gonna be just fine.
 
We are lucky we have halfway decent numbers, habitat, and neighbors.

In SE MN it’s a 9 day shot gun season starting the first Saturday in November. 5 days off another 9 day season with black powder overlapping the last two days that runs 14 days. It’s a miracle that we have the number of mature bucks we do.

The biggest thing we have going is that most farms are over 160 acres with the majority of them being 300+. If it wasn’t for that we’d be singing the same tune many of you frustrated hunters are.

I forgot to mention the 4 day youth hunt that coincides with the early antlerless season the third week of October.


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Dawg, aren’t you pretty new on your place?

Build it and they will come. Use @Native Hunter as your guide. It’s hard to know what the pressure was on your place before you got it.

I haven’t talked to a local yet that hasn’t “hunted” on my place before. After my grandfather in law got old then died, for 20 years it seems my place was the public hunting option of the county.

But I bought it, ran poachers off, have worked my ass off, and I have bucks running everywhere. I think they develop generational patterns based on pressure and food, and it just takes a while to get them back. Young bucks stay close to where their momma raised them. Sure they will go off chasing that poon and many won’t come back, but some will. And they will grow. I think you’re place is gonna be just fine.
Yeah second season. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I’ll have SOMETHING to hunt next year. My observation is a confirmation bias to my original point though. A decent chunk of ground and this few surviving deer 4.5 and older is not a good sign. I would venture I’m not operating in a vacuum either. My experience is being replicated across my state and Illinois and Missouri and Minnesota. Be it baiting or crossbows or addition of rifles, the scales are plunging towards the hunters favor and no longer the deers. The lack of restraint is crushing immature bucks across the Midwest.
 
Yeah second season. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I’ll have SOMETHING to hunt next year. My observation is a confirmation bias to my original point though. A decent chunk of ground and this few surviving deer 4.5 and older is not a good sign. I would venture I’m not operating in a vacuum either. My experience is being replicated across my state and Illinois and Missouri and Minnesota. Be it baiting or crossbows or addition of rifles, the scales are plunging towards the hunters favor and no longer the deers. The lack of restraint is crushing immature bucks across the Midwest.

If your property becomes a sanctuary amidst the hunting mayhem, those voids left by the loss of the 4.5 yo's will be filled by other mature bucks. If the does are there, the bucks will come from other properties to find them. Just takes time.
 
Yeah second season. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure I’ll have SOMETHING to hunt next year. My observation is a confirmation bias to my original point though. A decent chunk of ground and this few surviving deer 4.5 and older is not a good sign. I would venture I’m not operating in a vacuum either. My experience is being replicated across my state and Illinois and Missouri and Minnesota. Be it baiting or crossbows or addition of rifles, the scales are plunging towards the hunters favor and no longer the deers. The lack of restraint is crushing immature bucks across the Midwest.
I believe you. Everything you are saying i am sure is true.

Resentments are the joy killer. Work on what you can change and let the rest handle itself. Not only will you feel so much better but you’ll turn around and your hunting will be great!

Know I could be preaching to myself dawg!
 
Read this this morning and it seemed fitting.

The Good Old Days Are Here and Now​

July 6, 2023
190208_TB_farm_1dx_1_1385.jpg

By David LaMere
Humorist and author John Hodgman famously said “Nostalgia is a toxic impulse.” He was right. I am not nostalgic. I’m particularly confused by people nostalgic for a romanticized past through which they didn’t live. I treat people who use the phrase, “The good old days” with the same patronizing care I show those suffering from dementia. “They sure were,” I might say. “Would you like some pudding…then maybe a nap?” This tendency perplexes people who know me, my respect for our hunting traditions, and my adherence to them.
With social media, I try to create compelling posts representing days spent in the woods or on the water using images and videos of hunters from the past. I search archives and library collections for the images that strike me as some small part of our collective story as hunters and so, of humanity.
As the preacher saith, “There is nothing new under the sun,” and there’s nothing new in my gun safe. My deer rifle is a Winchester 94 lever action, built in the 1940s when Winchester records were vague. Much of the bluing is rubbed off by almost a century’s worth of hands. I don’t know the hunter who carried it, hand cradling the receiver though the north woods, but we are connected. My upland shotgun is a disreputable looking Savage Fox Model B side-by-side, built in Utica, New York, also in the 1940s. In the American tradition of side-by-side shotguns, it is heavy and inelegant. I have handled fine shotguns that felt alive in my hands. The Model B feels like a sturdy and trusted farm tool. The rib was inexpertly resoldered, and the stock replaced at some point. The replacement stock, with its semi pistol grip rasped down to a straight grip, looks like it was done by someone on a short deadline. It may be the world’s ugliest grouse gun, but it shoots where I look, and I am unreasonably fond of it. I am also fond of the unskilled hand that repaired the rib and modified the stock.
I’m dismissive of new camouflage patterns and hunting clothing classified as “systems,” preferring wool and waxed cotton. When I go out into the wild places, where I’m closer to understanding the world and my place in it, I strap on a simple, mechanical field watch. The design of the watch I wear hasn’t changed much since the early twentieth century. It functions better than I do. That doesn’t mean I want to live in the past, nor do I feel I was born in the wrong century.
We have gained quite a bit in science and in medicine, in comfort and convenience over time. We’ve made small, hard-won, steps towards a better and more just world. I am thankful for these things. I use the internet, social media, satellite navigation, and a vehicle, the complexity of which baffles me. I gave up my recurve for a modern compound bow and I have had much to do with contemporary modern firearms with their synthetic stocks, polymer frames, and all. They are, with very few exceptions, great tools. But it ends there. I don’t feel any more connected to them than I do my microwave.
Why then am I drawn to old rifles and shotguns, to stories of the past and hunting clothes that wouldn’t have seemed alien to a hunter in the 1940s? Because there is value in beauty and craftsmanship, in using an object built with human hands by someone whose skill took years to acquire. There is value in simplicity and in connecting to those who walked the trails before us. For good and ill they are part of our story. Just as we will be part of the story of future generations, with all our faults and transgressions.
My lever gun, chambered in 30-30, shoots well. It is an ethical and effective choice for a north woods hunter who limits himself to one hundred and fifty yards. When I miss with my side-by-side shotgun it isn’t the gun’s fault. My waxed cotton keeps me dry and comfortable, and my wool is warm and quiet.
The word “classic” is as worn as my Winchester 94, but appropriate. I get more out of, and feel more connected to, firearms and hunting gear that are classic; clothing that works well and is immune to changes in fashion. So many aspects of our modern lives are complicated, disconnected, and harried. I go into the wild places to live simply, to feel connected to the world and to those who went before me.
But when we meet in the fields, the woods, or the marsh, regardless of the gear you use or the clothes you wear, I won’t notice or care. I’ll be interested in whether you see just how beautiful it is, how perfect, and how blessed we are to know it. And I’ll welcome you to share the moment.

About the Author
David LaMere is the host of The Wild Huntsman Podcast. He enjoys hunting and overthinking things. He may be found on Instagram at @thewildhuntsmanpodcast
 
This is a ranking from B&C ranking entries from 1950-2019 vs ranking from 2020-2022. Kentucky has moved up. Indiana has moved up considerably. Ohio has moved up. Some states have moved down. B&C records only show a fraction of the bucks that are killed and would make the score. But, I'm guessing most states are pretty similar in the people entering vs not entering them. Most people who kill a B&C caliber buck don't enter them regardless of the state they're in. So, from a statistical ratio, it looks like some states are getting better while some are on the decline.

Personally, I think we are in the glory days, and they will continue to get better. The number of big bucks and the number of people managing for them has come a long, long way from 30 years ago. People have to see to believe, and managing for older bucks has shown people what could be. I don't think we have seen the best yet.

I'm an optimist though.

BandC_Ranking_20-22.png
 
This is a ranking from B&C ranking entries from 1950-2019 vs ranking from 2020-2022. Kentucky has moved up. Indiana has moved up considerably. Ohio has moved up. Some states have moved down. B&C records only show a fraction of the bucks that are killed and would make the score. But, I'm guessing most states are pretty similar in the people entering vs not entering them. Most people who kill a B&C caliber buck don't enter them regardless of the state they're in. So, from a statistical ratio, it looks like some states are getting better while some are on the decline.

Personally, I think we are in the glory days, and they will continue to get better. The number of big bucks and the number of people managing for them has come a long, long way from 30 years ago. People have to see to believe, and managing for older bucks has shown people what could be. I don't think we have seen the best yet.

I'm an optimist though.

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That’s so interesting. And like any data can be analyzed and manipulated. But personally I like my odds of killing a booner In Saskatchewan and Alberta and South Dakota over Indiana or Kentucky or Ohio.
I didn’t know Texas could grow a booner without a test tube and zoo fence. That’s surprising
 
I think there is a balance here….last season my granddaughter expressed interest In hunting due to a desire to source her own culinary favorite—venison summer sausage. We started target practice last spring. She turned six (the legal age in Missouri) over the summer. During her first twelve sits in ground blinds and/or tower stands, she saw a few deer, but all were out of range. She hunted in temperatures ranging from 70 down to 14 degrees (windchill below 0). Three of the first 12 sits where in rain, and most lasted hunts lasted 3 1/2 hours. On her last two sits, she trudged through snow and climbed icy ladders before finally harvested a 2 y.o.doe. Never once did she complain of being board or wanting to go home (although on a couple of hunts, her non-verbal expressions said, “can we go have lunch.”

Yes, I am glad for the ground blinds, tower stands and Little Debbie snacks (& hot chocolate on the coldest mornings). The buddy heater definitely helped on two sits. My son and I did not let her bring her phone (yes, at 6 she has one) nor any other electronic leashes. She did bring a conservation magazine into the stand—the issue that featuring deer hunting, of course. She loved the pictures and tried to figure out the words and letters! We used the pictures to reinforce shot placement, which must have worked, as her shot was double lung and heart.

Not all of our grandkids hunt. Some may start, and some may never take up the sport. But all of them know that when they are ready, I’ll be happy to work with them, but only if they are willing to invest time into practice and preparation. My granddaughter is now looking forward to harvesting her first buck (grampa, I still have a boy deer permit!). For me, this is the Golden Age of Deer HuntIng.
6 year old has a phone? That's a whole other societal issue there. To each parent their own though. My boys are 11, 8 and 6 and there's absolutely no reason for them to have a phone, they're not out and about on their own. But yes, they do have tablets to play games on. No access to the web of social media though.
 
6 year old has a phone? That's a whole other societal issue there. To each parent their own though. My boys are 11, 8 and 6 and there's absolutely no reason for them to have a phone, they're not out and about on their own. But yes, they do have tablets to play games on. No access to the web of social media though.
Good for you I say. We kept our kids from phones until they were in Jr. high. Our kids are overly involved in athletics and communication is important for when rides are needed or plans change on the fly.
 
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Good for you I say. We kept our kids from phones until they were in Jr. high. Our kids are overly involved in athletics and communication is important for when rides are needed or plans change on the fly.
100%. All 3 of my boys are 3 sport athelets. But until they're "on their own" it's mom and dad that bring them to and from practice. Hell, dad is on the board for football and coaches basketball.

To each their own, not trying to be judgy eventhough I am... but 6? idk...
 
100%. All 3 of my boys are 3 sport athelets. But until they're "on their own" it's mom and dad that bring them to and from practice. Hell, dad is on the board for football and coaches basketball.

To each their own, not trying to be judgy eventhough I am... but 6? idk...
Makes me sick. My 4th grader is one of few without cell phone. We put in a landline (over internet of course) the boys can use when we leave them for short periods.

Thinking of getting a prepaid voice and text, no internet no camera we can keep charged, and give them when out and about. They won’t have their own phone till 13. We catch grief from them but oh well.
 
It’s not contiguous totally, roughly a thousand is. Another tract is 2 miles away. Neighbors are not helping clearly. Between youth seasons, baiting be a religion, rifles in muzzleloader, crossbows, three week rifle in rut we just can’t keep them alive. A rifle and corn pile will kill every 2.5 and 3.5 in the woods. So all we can pray is they wander when someone isn’t sitting there since we can’t control a large enough area to get them through obviously. This isn’t a situation where they are elusive or we are just missing them on camera, they aren’t there. We are covering a large enough sample size with cameras unfortunately.

You run Spartan cams right? I'm 100% certain they spook deer ,with some specific cameras locations being worse than others. I don't know if they make noise, send off a vibe, or what.
 
Makes me sick. My 4th grader is one of few without cell phone. We put in a landline (over internet of course) the boys can use when we leave them for short periods.

Thinking of getting a prepaid voice and text, no internet no camera we can keep charged, and give them when out and about. They won’t have their own phone till 13. We catch grief from them but oh well.
Phones, tablets, TV's are so stimulating, they are crack for kids. I have a 4 and 6 and if they get on my phone to look at pictures or color/draw its hard to get their attention and getting them off can be a battle. So I like your approach omicron, your kids will thank you someday when their the only ones with an the ability to think and have an attention span. When its time for my kids to have one, I like the idea of talk and text only. That's what they actually need
 
I avoid the gram/tic toc/facebook because they are terrible for mental health! Hunting forums are just one rung down the ladder.. Im to the point where i should probably put myself on a forum hiatus and focus on work/family more until i can reign in their impact on my ADD..
 
You run Spartan cams right? I'm 100% certain they spook deer ,with some specific cameras locations being worse than others. I don't know if they make noise, send off a vibe, or what.
I do. I would like to believe there is some merit to that but I’m getting the same bucks on regular Brownings and moultries. Plus I don’t there is a camera on earth that will keep a deer off a feeder. Eventually they give in
 
That’s so interesting. And like any data can be analyzed and manipulated. But personally I like my odds of killing a booner In Saskatchewan and Alberta and South Dakota over Indiana or Kentucky or Ohio.
I didn’t know Texas could grow a booner without a test tube and zoo fence. That’s surprising
So.......I need some test tubes and zoo fence😁

bill
 
I’m at a loss too. Anecdotally I think there is a lot of nefarious stuff down here that may or may not happen there. That would be one. 31 days where people can hunt with a gun. That includes rifle (opened 11/11 this year), muzzleloader and youth, which is all basically adult rifle here. Bait is the big one is annother, maybe the smoking gun? Other than that I can’t say. EHD isn’t a thing. Saw one dead doe in a creek this year but that’s it. We have corn, beans, wheat, clover, cutovers, swamps, hardwoods, etc. I’m hoping something moves in late season for that we can hold till next year.
I don’t think many people understand the hunter efficiency increases provided by using bait. Even with archery tackle. With cellular cameras, even the oldest bucks are efficiently removed from the herd. Add in rifles … I think you know. Baiting is the ultimate game changer. It attracts bucks, in the daytime, reliably, and to a 20’x20’ spot on the landscape.

There will usually be some come along and claim that mature bucks don’t use their bait stations. I don’t know what to tell them. Get off your phone??
 
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