Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

When it comes to all the states the temptation is to add more seasons and weapons. Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, Missouri, Iowa has even done it .

Crossbows, longer Muzzy seasons, early Muzzy seasons, youth hunts, early doe, and much more.

In theory it’s more tags sold, more opportunity! But overall the quality goes downhill and it has had the reverse effect!
 
I’m sure they do. I’m just saying I think the south is culturally more of that. And with a 3 buck limit.

The cool kids in the upper class area where I live (just giving context) all drive jacked up, pick up trucks, where shit, kicker boots, and have a browning sticker on the back. I just don’t think that’s how it is in Chicago.
They drive their escalades up here. ;)
 
I would completely agree with you had I not hunted areas where they were conditioned not to visit bait during the day. If you start shooting deer (without passing any) on bait each time they come to it, they do learn to avoid it. Also, seeing them on camera during the day at bait is a little different than being able to kill them there.
killing them there is almost a given if you are halfway cognizant of conditions but I digress on that point

It would be an interesting experiment to see if you had bucks using your property but avoiding the feeders. And then to further drill down, if they are only using them at night. So far on two different farms I can’t say ive had bucks on camera that didn’t stop by my feeders and on top of that if they visited at all they visited in shooting light. With that said, I can’t confirm every drive by Buck has visited a feeder (I have 2 on 306 acres). But it’s not like I’m getting a whole group of bucks on other cameras not located on feeders. I can honestly say that theory of bucks avoiding bait is one I’ve never been able to back up between my experiences and anyone I personally know…unfortunately
 
killing them there is almost a given if you are halfway cognizant of conditions but I digress on that point

It would be an interesting experiment to see if you had bucks using your property but avoiding the feeders. And then to further drill down, if they are only using them at night. So far on two different farms I can’t say ive had bucks on camera that didn’t stop by my feeders and on top of that if they visited at all they visited in shooting light. With that said, I can’t confirm every drive by Buck has visited a feeder (I have 2 on 306 acres). But it’s not like I’m getting a whole group of bucks on other cameras not located on feeders. I can honestly say that theory of bucks avoiding bait is one I’ve never been able to back up between my experiences and anyone I personally know…unfortunately
This is just one example of a buck that avoided bait piles during season except at night. This was in Louisiana, 20 years ago. I've got several examples. And these aren't bucks that were bedding so far away that they only got to the bait sites after dark. These bucks would bed and move all around the bait sites. I ended up shooting the buck in the background circling around out of site of the bait site by about 100 yards. And, I killed him an hour after sunrise. Never had an in season, daytime picture of him at the bait site, but he was a regular at night. And, I knew where one of his preferred bedding sites was because I jumped him out of it maybe 200 yards away.

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Kentucky and Ohio are both bait states, WI is limited bait in certain areas and was full fledged bait for a lot of years. They are all top 4 in B&C since 2020. Baiting isn't a limiting factor on a macro scale, IMO. It can certainly be a factor when your neighbor is dropping a dump truck of corn every week, but it's hard to know those things before buying a property.
 
I thought you could bait in Iowa as long as you were hunting at least 200 yards from it?
 
Kentucky and Ohio are both bait states, WI is limited bait in certain areas and was full fledged bait for a lot of years. They are all top 4 in B&C since 2020. Baiting isn't a limiting factor on a macro scale, IMO. It can certainly be a factor when your neighbor is dropping a dump truck of corn every week, but it's hard to know those things before buying a property.
Very true. I just wonder what effect crossbows (when bucks are extremely patternable and naive) and cell cams will play. Can’t be positive I know that.
 
I thought you could bait in Iowa as long as you were hunting at least 200 yards from it?
I have seen videos of Bill Winke specifically using a corn pile for buck inventory on his cameras, so I have to assume that it's legal there.
 
I will add this. We had 5 above the average for mature deer on our place before season opened. Grand daughter killed one - and four are still alive with five days of mg left. Usually, 2/3rds of the quality mature bucks get killed. Not as many folks hunting.
I don’t think many people understand the hunter efficiency increases provided by using bait. Even with archery tackle. With cellular cameras, even the oldest bucks are efficiently removed from the herd. Add in rifles … I think you know. Baiting is the ultimate game changer. It attracts bucks, in the daytime, reliably, and to a 20’x20’ spot on the landscape.

There will usually be some come along and claim that mature bucks don’t use their bait stations. I don’t know what to tell them. Get off your phone??
This is pure fact. Pic below is one of my neighbors front yards. He owns 7 acres.

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These two feeders are in this neighbors front yard. I know he killed two does from his front porch three days ago. I have at least five more adjacent property owner small acreage neighbors who do the same thing. The large acreage neighbors also bait - but the difference to me is, the large acreage neighbors typically have enough land to feel like they can grow a bigger deer by passing them until they are older. The small acreage landowners have no such thought. Large acre neighbors may be killing a deer per 50 to 100 acres. The smaller landowners are killing a deer per one to two acres. The small land owners would struggle to kill a deer off their property with no bait.

I bait a lot. We started about 8 yrs ago with a corn pile for the grand daughters to hunt on. Because our neighbors seemed to be killing all the big deer - we upped our feeding/baiting game. While we dont usually hunt over bait, it does tend to cause the deer to spend more time on our land as opposed to our neighbors. We now kill a much greater percentage of the mature bucks - as opposed to our neighbors getting most of them. But, we kill them late season in a food plot after rut, or during rut and cruising or chasing.

I have killed one deer over bait. To be honest, I have tried to kill two more. At my place, just because a deer is hitting bait does not mean you are going to kill it. I hunted a deer two years ago 21 out of the first 24 days of season. All but two of those days with a bow. Either a morning or an evening - sometimes both. He hit the bait about half of those days. Twice during shooting hours. One I was not there - and the other evening I was there - and he winded and spooked about three feet before I had a shot. I have three ladder stands around the bait site to play the wind - and it wasnt enough. After he spooked, he pretty much quit the bait. My son killed him with a rifle the next year as he was checking does in a seven acre food plot. This deer would not hit a spin feeder - only hand spread feed.

We have hunted the other deer for two years. He will hit a spin feeder or hand spread feed. He will hit all of them. Including my neighbors spin feeder a mile to the south. And he feeds in the food plots. The only time he is ever regular is when he is in a bachelor herd. I have seen him twice, crossing a road in 1/2 mile to the north of my property. We named him roamer.

Every mature buck on my place will come to hand spread bait. Less than half of them will come to a spin feeder. Probably one out of five of them would be consistent enough on bait to consider hunting them. And you better have two weeks in a row to do it. That is what makes my small landowner baiting neighbors so successful. With a feeder 100 yards from the front porch, They are hunting when they are in their living room watching tv, out grilling supper, or working on the car.

Just because every buck visits feed, does not mean they are easily killable - not in my area. The neighbors have proved that - we still have mature bucks.

As an example - on a sixty acre property I own, I have one hand spread bait site that has taken 64 pictures in the last three days. Four of those were during shooting hours. One was a 3 yr old buck in shooting hours. There was one morning and one evening when any deer was there during shooting hours. In a food plot 250 yards away, there were 27 pictures in the last 3 days, 14 of them with deer in shooting hours - most with multiple deer, including the biggest deer in the area. There are deer in the food plot every afternoon during shooting hours. This is on a property that has been hunted four times since oct 1. Again, the food plot would be the spot I would hunt.

I dont bait just to kill deer. I run three or four spin feeders with corn year round. I do this for a couple of reasons - they are easy - fill them once every couple weeks. I place them in areas where I know my does like to stay with their fawns. I also hunt hogs off them. I have personally never seen a mature buck at a spin feeder - even though they will visit on occasion.

I also have four bait sites where I hand spread a protein feed. I start this in June and am phasing it out now. I believe it helps the does with fawns and possible provides a benefit to bucks growing antlers. We have definitely seen increases in body weights and we at least have a perception of antler increases.

I maintain about 30 acres of both summer and winter food plots. By far, the food plots are the most consistent for hunting - BY FAR. We have one stand where we can see a protein feed site, a spin feeder, and three acres of food plot. This year, I would guess about a third of the deer seen from this stand will go to the protein - after feeding in the wheat and clover. We have yet to see a deer feeding on the corn at the spin feeder. It is really odd to me they readily feed on corn at the spin feeder at night - but rarely during shooting hours. It is in a secluded nook, also. The protein feed gets visited commonly by about a third of the deer we see during shooting hours. Almost every deer we see enters the wide open food plot.

All that said - I would be the first to support an anti baiting law during deer season. I would still want to provide protein outside deer season and corn for hog hunting. My selfish side knows It would save me a lot of money and save a lot of deer from getting killed on neighboring lands. BUT, my non selfish side knows a lot of these small land owning neighbors are low income, hard working folks who definitely can use the meat. On a bigger scale - our G&F feels baiting helps hunters to reach their harvest goals. We have a lot of thick cover - a lot of ground in commercial timberland where a mast tree is rare and it is hard to get deer out of cover in areas food plots are not permitted. If you believe the numbers, we are killing about 19% of the deer herd annually - which is a relatively low percentage when states like Iowa see harvest rates of 25% of the herd annually. An this is with 60 days of firearm season, five months of archery/crossbow, baiting, dog running, and centerfire rifles. So in this case, baiting could be considered a management tool to help keep deer density at management goals.

While I dont support baiting - I do wholeheartedly support food plots. I have several food plots where I could kill far more deer than I could any of my bait sites. Some days, I may see 30 deer in my food plots. I doubt I have ever seen over ten deer in a day on bait. And commonly the pure baiters will claim food plots are just another form of baiting - providing a food source that would not naturally be there.

So many folks are so deeply entrenched in baiting it would be very - interesting - to ban it after so many years. Our state did not even ban baiting in the cwd zones.
 
Very true. I just wonder what effect crossbows (when bucks are extremely patternable and naive) and cell cams will play. Can’t be positive I know that.
With a five month crossbow season, crossbow hunters kill 6.6% of the annual harvest and verticle bow hunters kill almost 9%. That is with baiting and cell cams legal.
 
I just don’t think a lot of people did not bow hunt that now crossbow hunt. Maybe some. But most switched from bow to crossbow. I think the impact is Negligible
 
This is just one example of a buck that avoided bait piles during season except at night. This was in Louisiana, 20 years ago. I've got several examples. And these aren't bucks that were bedding so far away that they only got to the bait sites after dark. These bucks would bed and move all around the bait sites. I ended up shooting the buck in the background circling around out of site of the bait site by about 100 yards. And, I killed him an hour after sunrise. Never had an in season, daytime picture of him at the bait site, but he was a regular at night. And, I knew where one of his preferred bedding sites was because I jumped him out of it maybe 200 yards away.

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Camera-shy or bait-shy?
 
I just don’t think a lot of people did not bow hunt that now crossbow hunt. Maybe some. But most switched from bow to crossbow. I think the impact is Negligible
We went over this in the MN crossbow thread this past spring and I mostly agree with you. Especially in states like MN where it is a one buck state (everywhere but the CWD areas at least) because whether you kill that buck with the crossbow or rifle, it's still your only tag. In states like WI where you can harvest a buck with gun AND bow, it is detrimental to the quality of the herd to introduce crossbows for archery season. The harvest evidence has proven that in WI.
 
Camera-shy or bait-shy?
I think they are bait shy. I get dozens of pictures of the same buck on the same camera in a food plot or trail - and rarely at a feeder. Hand spread feed is a different story. I fence most of my hand spread feed sites with 32” field fence to keep the hogs out. Even the biggest, oldest bucks will typically use those areas.

We have killed one buck in 20 years we did not first have on camera - usually multiple times.
 
Most g&f agencies typically have an annual overall harvest goal of 20/25% of herd with a roughly 1:1 buck:doe harvest. They initiate seasons and restrictions to try to keep from going too much over or not killing enough. In the big picture - all biases aside - does it really matter how the deer is killed as long as they stay within their harvest goals?

I know I started baiting in defense of the neighbors baiting. Of the local bucks that were killed - they were getting most of them. When we started baiting, we started killing probably more than our fair share of the quality deer - but the total local harvest of quality deer probably did not change much. We just started killing some of what our neighbors were killing. It was a purely selfish move - but in the big picture - it didnt matter.

Now, if baiting were banned altogether, there would definitely be fewer deer killed - and g&f harvest goals would not be met. So, g&f would increase season length, bag limits, etc - to make up the difference. Still as many dead deer.
 
i want to know how yall have a buck population that avoids bait at least in daylight? It literally flies in the face of everything I have seen or stories I hear year in and year out in from ga to Tenn (illegal) to Kentucky to Ohio. This is just a tiny sample of hundred of daylight pics of bucks in deer season. The second from bottom was killed over a corn pile in rifle season. IMG_3412.jpeg It’s literally not a thing anywhere I’ve been. IMG_3307.jpegIMG_1370.jpegIMG_2637.jpeg
 
i want to know how yall have a buck population that avoids bait at least in daylight? It literally flies in the face of everything I have seen or stories I hear year in and year out in from ga to Tenn (illegal) to Kentucky to Ohio. This is just a tiny sample of hundred of daylight pics of bucks in deer season. The second from bottom was killed over a corn pile in rifle season. View attachment 60238 It’s literally not a thing anywhere I’ve been. View attachment 60235View attachment 60236View attachment 60237
Like I said, it depends. Where I've hunted in Kentucky, yeah, I could kill a mature buck over bait. Where I've hunted in Louisiana, I rarely could. Two different worlds and different pressure. Where I've hunted in Louisiana, you don't even see many does when driving down the roads. Traveling the Interstate, once I get to north Alabama and into Tennessee, then Kentucky, I start seeing them. Seeing deer, in general, in daylight is a luxury in some parts. Pressure, not baiting, is the difference.
 
Like I said, it depends. Where I've hunted in Kentucky, yeah, I could kill a mature buck over bait. Where I've hunted in Louisiana, I rarely could. Two different worlds and different pressure. Where I've hunted in Louisiana, you don't even see many does when driving down the roads. Traveling the Interstate, once I get to north Alabama and into Tennessee, then Kentucky, I start seeing them. Seeing deer, in general, in daylight is a luxury in some parts. Pressure, not baiting, is the difference.
I think that’s part of it but I think bigger than pressure is landscape. Louisiana is thick as crap. As you start heading north the landscape opens. It’s why rifles are so hard on these deer. They have very few places to hide. I don’t think we have less pressure here than Louisiana.
 
I will have bucks daytime feed at bait up through bachelor herd breakup time - usually late september. After that, it becomes rarer and rarer.

Answer me this - the pic below was obviously during daytime. Buck was out in the afternoon a number of days in a row. I hand spread some corn in this exact location and he has showed up once, night for a few minutes, and not been back. It is almost like the corn scared him off

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I will get the odd daytime picture of a mature buck at hand spread feed during season - but not consistent enough to hunt them. Not at a spin feeder. I get all kinds of daytime pics in a wide open food plot.

Even more surprising than the deer, I have seen hogs one time in daylight in the last year - but they are regular night time visitors. My hogs have learned, for the most part, to avoid spin feeders, also - even at night. I have not had a hog even walk by a feeder in months.
 
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