Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[SwampCat]

I saw a podcast where the guy was talking about how good Iowa was for big bucks. He said something like only 8% of Iowa was deer cover. Our state, probably 60% - or more - is deer cover. We have long seasons, two buck bag limit, rut hunt with rifle, etc.

I think there are more factors contributing to quality deer hunting in iowa than just timing of the season. There are fairly short modern gun seasons, outside the rut, and a one buck limit. Our state has five to six weeks - or more - with a two buck limit, encompassing the rut. Crossbows are legal for anyone - for five months.

Iowa has an estimated deer population of 400,000 and they kill just over 100,000 - or about 25% of the population. So 300,000 deer are carried over one more year.

Arkansas has 1,000,000 deer and we kill 200,000 - 20% - half bucks and half does. 800,000 deer are carried over from one year to the next.

So - how does carrying over 300,000 (75%) of the herd result in more big bucks than carrying over 800,000 deer, 80% of the herd. I dont think it is nearly the result of restrictive management as it is habitat.

 

[Brian662]

Iowa is a 2 buck state, in some cases three buck. I can't remember if the 3rd buck is landowner or urban tag, but I know some can get 3 tags.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Iowa is a 2 buck state, in some cases three buck. I can't remember if the 3rd buck is landowner or urban tag, but I know some can get 3 tags.

I think iowa is a function of habitat, crops and sunlight to the ground. And…it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Iowa has giants by reputation so people wait for giants to shoot.

 

[SD51555]

I think iowa is a function of habitat, crops and sunlight to the ground. And…it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Iowa has giants by reputation so people wait for giants to shoot.

Limited tags and lack of public land. That's the key to big deer. South Dakota and north dakota have nothing for habitat, and they have giants all over.

 

[Turkish]

I think iowa is a function of habitat, crops and sunlight to the ground. And…it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Iowa has giants by reputation so people wait for giants to shoot.

The L&L podcast talked about it this week. My recollection: They had giant deer because of social/cultural reasons, heavy farming, everyone being busy during harvest season. Less of a hunting culture made for a great age structure. Word got out and the folks that flocked in were like-minded. Now you have large contiguous swaths of trophy-minded land holdings. Mostly an age impact, but the nutrition is also there. Habitat is largely just OK.

 

[Bill]

I can "almost" hit Iowa with a rock thrown from the top of my barn. We have nice deer but I have seen some absolute monsters driving in Iowa. Had the chance once at a pretty reasonable rate to lease 750 acres up there and passed. NR tags headaches are not worth it to me. I can't be the only one to think so which probably helps with the herd and keeping it local. My neighbor literally moved 5 miles just so he was a resident and didn't have to deal with it.

 

[SwampCat]

The L&L podcast talked about it this week. My recollection: They had giant deer because of social/cultural reasons, heavy farming, everyone being busy during harvest season. Less of a hunting culture made for a great age structure. Word got out and the folks that flocked in were like-minded. Now you have large contiguous swaths of trophy-minded land holdings. Mostly an age impact, but the nutrition is also there. Habitat is largely just OK.

nutrition/food source is part of the habitat. Does a deer benefit more from eating soybeans or pine cones.

 

[SwampCat]

I think iowa is a function of habitat, crops and sunlight to the ground. And…it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. Iowa has giants by reputation so people wait for giants to shoot.

I think this is the key - people wait for giants to shoot. It is not regulations alone, or Arkansas hunters would be killing giants. It is hunters going above and beyond the regulations. Their regulations are nothing special - but their age structure is because the hunters go above and beyond what is allowed - for whatever reason.

 

[cbw]

I think this is the key - people wait for giants to shoot. It is not regulations alone, or Arkansas hunters would be killing giants. It is hunters going above and beyond the regulations. Their regulations are nothing special - but their age structure is because the hunters go above and beyond what is allowed - for whatever reason.

Agree, but I think the regs do make a difference. Specifically, no gun season during the rut. Around here, there is night and day difference between gun and bow hunters. Gun means party hunting and brown is down. That is how I started as a kid. Put that in the rut and it would ruin Iowa. Also, having a high threshold for non resident. You open the borders, and within 4 years, Iowa would be the same or worse than any surrounding state. Prob Worse because only 8% of timber in the state.


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[Turkish]

nutrition/food source is part of the habitat. Does a deer benefit more from eating soybeans or pine cones.

I’d say that depends entirely on the point the author is trying to make. Also highlights why “habitat” can be a uselessly ambiguous word to use in these conversations (and that’s my bad).

Their point was it’s mostly about age, which seems to be something you’d agree with.

 

[hillrunner]

I think this is the key - people wait for giants to shoot. It is not regulations alone, or Arkansas hunters would be killing giants. It is hunters going above and beyond the regulations. Their regulations are nothing special - but their age structure is because the hunters go above and beyond what is allowed - for whatever reason.

I'm unfamiliar with Arkansas regs, are they similar to Iowa?

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'm unfamiliar with Arkansas regs, are they similar to Iowa?

Im gonna say no…Arkansas you can crossbow hunt, bait, and use a rifle for a couple months. That’s all I know off the top of my head.

 

[SwampCat]

I'm unfamiliar with Arkansas regs, are they similar to Iowa?

no - not at all. Five to six weeks modern gun. Five months crossbow. Half the state allows dog hunting. Two buck limit. Baiting allowed. Rifles and more rifles. But we still kill a smaller percentage of our herd of 1 million deer than the Iowa folks do out of their 400,000

But, we are probably 60/70% cover statewide. Much of our cover is pine plantations due to the largE commercial timber presence - you cant hardly walk through them. Arkansas always ranks in the top five in the country for average oldest age class buck taken.

I think the big difference is in the deer itself, genetics, and nutrition. Our bucks are probably going down hill after age five. A big five year old scores 125 to 135. Our average 5 yr old - and older - scores low 100’s. I don't think it so much Iowa regulations and age as it is genetics and nutrition.

 

[TreeDaddy]

nutrition/food source is part of the habitat. Does a deer benefit more from eating soybeans or pine cones.

Sandy soil in east texas grinds teeth over time as deer age

Harder to eat pine cones

bill

 

[hillrunner]

no - not at all. Five to six weeks modern gun. Five months crossbow. Half the state allows dog hunting. Two buck limit. Baiting allowed. Rifles and more rifles. But we still kill a smaller percentage of our herd of 1 million deer than the Iowa folks do out of their 400,000

But, we are probably 60/70% cover statewide. Much of our cover is pine plantations due to the largE commercial timber presence - you cant hardly walk through them. Arkansas always ranks in the top five in the country for average oldest age class buck taken.

I think the big difference is in the deer itself, genetics, and nutrition. Our bucks are probably going down hill after age five. A big five year old scores 125 to 135. Our average 5 yr old - and older - scores low 100’s. I don't think it so much Iowa regulations and age as it is genetics and nutrition.

If it's genetics and nutrition, shouldn't border states like (southern) Minnesota, Illinois , and Missouri be blowing Iowa away? They look to me like they are superior to Iowa in every way other than more liberal regs.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I definitely disagree with genetics. If you stocked iowas “genes” in that pine/hay ground part of arkansas you would end up with Arkansas racks. They would regress to the mean due to lack of quality food not genes.

 

[Foggy47]

Hunting at my land sucked this year. I've got seven cell-cameras out. Since the opening weekend three weeks ago.....we have not had but two deer show during daylight hours. Lots of nightime activity.....but almost none during the day. And they are not very active at sun-up or sun-down either. The deer just do not move much at our place except at night.

We take direct routes to our box blinds and try to keep as low-profile as possible. Still, everything is nocturnal. Maybe it's time to change our tactics??. Been considering some still hunting.....but I don't want to blow the deer over to our neighbors either.

 

[sandbur]

Hunting at my land sucked this year. I've got seven cell-cameras out. Since the opening weekend three weeks ago.....we have not had but two deer show during daylight hours. Lots of nightime activity.....but almost none during the day. And they are not very active at sun-up or sun-down either. The deer just do not move much at our place except at night.

We take direct routes to our box blinds and try to keep as low-profile as possible. Still, everything is nocturnal. Maybe it's time to change our tactics??. Been considering some still hunting.....but I don't want to blow the deer over to our neighbors either.

I saw the first daylight movement in the last 24 hours. It has been slow here, as well.

 

[g squared 23]

My farm always blows during gun season. Lot of pressure around me. The bucks push the does into breeding spots and don’t move much. Food plots are very low odds this time of year.


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[SwampCat]

I definitely disagree with genetics. If you stocked iowas “genes” in that pine/hay ground part of arkansas you would end up with Arkansas racks. They would regress to the mean due to lack of quality food not genes.

Probably - but it might take a couple generations before the gene pool was deleted.

So what would be your thought on why Iowa produces so many big deer. I dont think it is regulations, you dont think it is genetics - that leaves nutrition. Is nutrition in iowa better than all surrounding states?