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Rootstock top experimentation time!
- Thread starter Merle Hawggard
- Start date
All three of the Honeycrisp scions I put in potting mix have multiple roots up to 1" long already, just four days after putting them in potting mix kept in the dark at about 45 degrees. Other than that they look completely dormant. I had dug them up just now with the plan to apply rooting hormone to them that I just received. Now I'm going to let them grow without it. I plan to keep them in the dark at 45 degrees until I observe terminal bud swell.
No sign of life from the Arkansas Black scions yet.
I'll just wait on the M111 root prunings to send up shoots or not send any up.
No sign of life from the Arkansas Black scions yet.
I'll just wait on the M111 root prunings to send up shoots or not send any up.
No sign of life yet from the M111 root prunings.
Most of the Arkansas Black scions are showing green tip.
One of the three Honeycrisps is showing the most green. (Photo attached.)
Probable Enterprise scions went in the dirt a few days ago, as did Dolgo seedling scions.
B118 tops will be going in dirt tonight, along with several more varieties of scions.
Most of the Arkansas Black scions are showing green tip.
One of the three Honeycrisps is showing the most green. (Photo attached.)
Probable Enterprise scions went in the dirt a few days ago, as did Dolgo seedling scions.
B118 tops will be going in dirt tonight, along with several more varieties of scions.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
I did the root hormone dip with all of my apple&pear rootstock cuttings and a few left over scions just for fun into my nursery box to see what happens. If by miracle or misfortune they all would take I would have over forty rootstocks for next spring and a few extra trees to plant...I'm happy if just a few do it....don't really need/want forty plus extra tree's but I guess I could find a place to plant them or a home for them?
I've got a couple buddies that have caught the habitat improvement/fruit tree bug from me so they might be able to use them.
I've got a couple buddies that have caught the habitat improvement/fruit tree bug from me so they might be able to use them.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
Should my bucket of rootstock tops be outside fulltime now? I still have them in the dark garage. The buds are greening up and a few small leaves opening. So do developed leaves help with root growth, or is it the other way around? Do I need to keep it slow and wait for roots to form before it can support a leafed out tree?
Merle Hawggard
5 year old buck +
I've always shoved mine in the same bed I plant my grafted trees in so I'm not what the best way would be in a bucket.
I'd think they need the sun, just be sure to keep the medium they're growing in moist.
Also, since they've been in the dark, I think it best to gradually introduce them to full sun.
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No answers here, just information on what I ended up doing.
My B.118 arrived already leafed out, so I put the tops in potting mix the next day inside two-liter pop bottles that I cut most of the way around the perimeter, but not all the way, so the domes are still hingedly attached. I set them outside right away.
My B.118 arrived already leafed out, so I put the tops in potting mix the next day inside two-liter pop bottles that I cut most of the way around the perimeter, but not all the way, so the domes are still hingedly attached. I set them outside right away.
I've now finished up grafting and potting, and instead of throwing any rootstock tops, roots, or scions away, I stuck them all in potting mix inside cutoff plastic pop bottles along the way, fitting in as many together as seemed would reasonably fit. Here's how things are looking:
- B.118: The tops of the B.118 were already leafed out when I received them. All seem to be clinging to life so far, though not looking very healthy. I put them out in sunlight right away a little over two weeks ago. I think they were too far out of dormancy to root very well this way. I don't expect any to persist, but it's not like I'm actually spending any time caring for them, so they can sit there outside for as long as they want. That goes for the rest of this too.
- M.111: I covered the M.111 root prunings with potting mix about six weeks ago. No shoots have come up so far.
- Honeycrisp: Of the three Honeycrisp scions I buried, all three rooted within four days. One seems to be growing well, though not vigorously. While throwing out the other two recently, I discovered that I had simply buried them below the first viable bud on each and they were still alive. They are back in potting mix, though not as deep. After observing that, I went ahead and moved all the other potted scions outside as well.
- Arkansas Black: None of the Arkansas Black showed any sign of life for the first three weeks in potting mix. I had a hunch that maybe the bark was too thick to allow the cambium layer to send a root through. I put them all on an anvil and smashed the bottom inch or two with a hammer. After that, seven out of eight greened up. They have been in the sun a couple weeks. One or two look like they might persist. After observing these green up, I smashed the lower ends of all scions potted subsequently.
- Dolgo Seedling: I picked up some scions a couple weeks ago from under a Dolgo seedling rootstock that I had allowed to grow into a tree. I had pruned that tree at Thanksgiving time. I rehydrated the scions two days and then put them in potting mix. Nearly all have at least green tip. At least one seems to be thriving.
- Missing Label Apple Tree: I collected scions from this tree because it is the favorite tree for deer out of about 300 apple trees on that property. I had fourteen scions that turned out to be too small in caliper for me to graft. Each included a terminal bud. I put them in a cutoff pop bottle together, kept them in the dark for one week, and then moved them to sunlight. During the two weeks in the light so far, twelve have opened and all those appear to be viable so far.
- Other Stuff: I emptied my refrigerator of all the other leftover apple and pear scions and stuck them all in potting mix too.
I'm not planning to turn this into a project of its own. Everything will have to fend for itself from here on out.
- B.118: The tops of the B.118 were already leafed out when I received them. All seem to be clinging to life so far, though not looking very healthy. I put them out in sunlight right away a little over two weeks ago. I think they were too far out of dormancy to root very well this way. I don't expect any to persist, but it's not like I'm actually spending any time caring for them, so they can sit there outside for as long as they want. That goes for the rest of this too.
- M.111: I covered the M.111 root prunings with potting mix about six weeks ago. No shoots have come up so far.
- Honeycrisp: Of the three Honeycrisp scions I buried, all three rooted within four days. One seems to be growing well, though not vigorously. While throwing out the other two recently, I discovered that I had simply buried them below the first viable bud on each and they were still alive. They are back in potting mix, though not as deep. After observing that, I went ahead and moved all the other potted scions outside as well.
- Arkansas Black: None of the Arkansas Black showed any sign of life for the first three weeks in potting mix. I had a hunch that maybe the bark was too thick to allow the cambium layer to send a root through. I put them all on an anvil and smashed the bottom inch or two with a hammer. After that, seven out of eight greened up. They have been in the sun a couple weeks. One or two look like they might persist. After observing these green up, I smashed the lower ends of all scions potted subsequently.
- Dolgo Seedling: I picked up some scions a couple weeks ago from under a Dolgo seedling rootstock that I had allowed to grow into a tree. I had pruned that tree at Thanksgiving time. I rehydrated the scions two days and then put them in potting mix. Nearly all have at least green tip. At least one seems to be thriving.
- Missing Label Apple Tree: I collected scions from this tree because it is the favorite tree for deer out of about 300 apple trees on that property. I had fourteen scions that turned out to be too small in caliper for me to graft. Each included a terminal bud. I put them in a cutoff pop bottle together, kept them in the dark for one week, and then moved them to sunlight. During the two weeks in the light so far, twelve have opened and all those appear to be viable so far.
- Other Stuff: I emptied my refrigerator of all the other leftover apple and pear scions and stuck them all in potting mix too.
I'm not planning to turn this into a project of its own. Everything will have to fend for itself from here on out.
I think it would be inclined to grow to whatever size an Enterprise tree without a tap root would grow naturally, as there is no other apple tree DNA present; in other words, something around standard size. If my Honeycrisp survive, I'm guessing they would grow up smaller than most, maybe 80 - 90%, or perhaps even less, depending on how well their roots tolerate droughty soil.
I found a photo of what I'm talking about by smashing the scions with a hammer (my favorite repair tool). Bear in mind that I put the scions in filled water bottles for two days to get the bark to slip before I hit them, and someone willing to spend more time could use some tool better suited to the task.
Regarding the pop bottles, I cut holes in the bottom and set them in what is essentially a tray that will collect rainwater and will overflow beyond a couple inches of water accumulation. It's up to the moss in the potting mix to wick enough moisture upwards to the potted scions now.
I found a photo of what I'm talking about by smashing the scions with a hammer (my favorite repair tool). Bear in mind that I put the scions in filled water bottles for two days to get the bark to slip before I hit them, and someone willing to spend more time could use some tool better suited to the task.
Regarding the pop bottles, I cut holes in the bottom and set them in what is essentially a tray that will collect rainwater and will overflow beyond a couple inches of water accumulation. It's up to the moss in the potting mix to wick enough moisture upwards to the potted scions now.
Attachments
Brush farmer
5 year old buck +
I had some pear and apple scion wood left over this spring. After completing the last of my field grafts, I sat the scions still in the bag with a moist paper towel on a work bench in the house. I forgot all about them until cleaning up a week later. To my surprise the buds were pushed out considerably and there was a white callus at the bottom of several. One even had a couple tiny roots.
I figured since the scions were already trying so hard I had to see they would go given a chance. I found a place several feet up a steep creek bank near the house that is always very damp but well drained with dappled sun to shove the scions in. Several have now pushed out buds into small leaves and a couple have put up shoots that are over 2” long. We’ll see how this experiment turns out but I did at least discover I had a spot that is the equivalent of a natural misting bed for this kind of experimentation.
I figured since the scions were already trying so hard I had to see they would go given a chance. I found a place several feet up a steep creek bank near the house that is always very damp but well drained with dappled sun to shove the scions in. Several have now pushed out buds into small leaves and a couple have put up shoots that are over 2” long. We’ll see how this experiment turns out but I did at least discover I had a spot that is the equivalent of a natural misting bed for this kind of experimentation.
H20fwler
5 year old buck +
Well mine haven't done to well, after the initial leaf flourish most of the apple scions withered and died and half the pears. I pulled the dead and weak ones and only a couple had tried to make any roots at all, I guess they couldn't keep up with the leaf growth enough to feed/water themselves. Still have hope for the ones left...they were pushed down further too with only an inch or two above potting soil.
Next year I'd like to try it with some Lilac bush scions.
Next year I'd like to try it with some Lilac bush scions.
I put handfuls of M.111 root prunings in cutoff two-litter pop bottles after potting whips and shoved some potting mix in with them afterwards. Some of the prunings were too long to fit, but I didn't take the time to cut them to fit. So far around 10% of the root prunings have figured out they can grow leaves.
Attachments
Red
5 year old buck +
Well, my experiment it not going so well. After grafting, the excess rootstock and scion was dipped in rooting hormone and shoved in potting soil until only 2 buds were showing.
They greened up fantastically at first but the stored energy ran out and now we have this.
I’ve got one and a half b118’s that might make it. Fingers crossed.
They greened up fantastically at first but the stored energy ran out and now we have this.
I’ve got one and a half b118’s that might make it. Fingers crossed.
My B.118 tops all died long ago.
I have ten M.111 root segments that have leafed out so far.
I have about a dozen scions that are still looking good, but have no new growth and no roots visible. The one thing those all have in common is that they are the longest scions I had, so their cut ends are in water in the pan underneath the pots.
The last of my Honeycrisp scions died almost three months after it initially grew multiple 1" roots in just four days, and then leafed out. That one was not long enough to touch the water in the pan and it died of neglect during a dry spell.
I have ten M.111 root segments that have leafed out so far.
I have about a dozen scions that are still looking good, but have no new growth and no roots visible. The one thing those all have in common is that they are the longest scions I had, so their cut ends are in water in the pan underneath the pots.
The last of my Honeycrisp scions died almost three months after it initially grew multiple 1" roots in just four days, and then leafed out. That one was not long enough to touch the water in the pan and it died of neglect during a dry spell.
cavey
5 year old buck +
Red....Its mildly uncanny how my experiment looks exactly like yours... only one b118 left leafed out and that is not saying much by its appearance. I kind of knew going into it that this is how it would end. But I decided to play with all the other neighborhood kids and give it a shot too. If this was an effective way of propagation commercial operations would be doing it in mass.
A fun try but predictable results...
In the end I will stick with stooling out established root stock or just continue buying root stock and saving all the time and hassle.
