The Forbidden Apple Tree Knowledge Thread

[Bowsnbucks]

Sandbur -Are your Dolgo seeds from trees that have larger than normal fruit?? Some of those Dolgo pix you've posted on this forum look pretty big compared to "regular" Dolgo fruit. Our Dolgo's at camp make fruit about 1" long and oval in shape.

 

[sandbur]

Sandbur -Are your Dolgo seeds from trees that have larger than normal fruit?? Some of those Dolgo pix you've posted on this forum look pretty big compared to "regular" Dolgo fruit. Our Dolgo's at camp make fruit about 1" long and oval in shape.

Dolgo seeds I sent you are from a grafted Dolgo that is the size you describe.

I can’t remember if I had any ripe Buckman crab seeds that I sent you. It is a larger dolgo seedling and is the tree on the right or actual middle tree if you notice the smaller short one. That one is a topwork of Big Dog on dolgo seedling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bowsnbucks]

You sent me Buckman seeds too, Bur. They will be babied!!

 

[sandbur]

You sent me Buckman seeds too, Bur. They will be babied!!

Open pollinated and you never know what you will get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Native Hunter]

Most of the fruit growers on this forum are way above average in their knowledge and probably already know the following, but I am posting this just in case it might help some new growers out. However, some of you experienced people might like to read it too, because it's a good illustration from a real life example.

I have some important advice for anyone who is planting apple and pear trees - Take Frost Pockets into consideration. Frost Pockets occur at low ground where cold air can fall and settle. Remember - warmer air rises and colder air falls. Many years, just a degree or two of temperature can be the difference between a bumper crop and a total failure. I'm not saying to completely avoid planting trees in low areas, but I would recommend using some restraint until you can gauge how bad the impact might be on your particular piece of ground.

Telling my own personal experience with my frost pocket at my farm is the best illustration that I can give for this subject. At one point in time, all of my trees were planted on high ground away from my low ground. However, in 2014, I decided to add a few more trees, and I planted some in the low area and some on the high ground with the other trees. Since that time the difference in fruiting has been dramatic. Shown below are some bullet points with the most important facts:

• In the low ground area, The pear trees I planted in 2014 have never been able to produce. Last year one of the trees had 4 or 5 pears on it, and that is the only pears I've ever seen down there. However, the pears on the high ground started producing 4 years after they were planted, and have been doing great ever since then. The two groups of trees are only 300 yards apart, and the only difference is the elevation.
• Even though the pear trees in the low area haven't been able to produce, they have grown big. They are much larger than the trees that have been producing. That make perfect sense, because if you aren't making fruit, you have more energy to devote to vegetative growth.
• The apples and crabapples in the low area have been able to produce some, but they have not been as productive as the trees on the high ground. It looks like that could possibly change this year. They are loaded with blooms, and unless we have an unusual late freeze, they look to be on par with the high ground trees this year.
• This year, the pear tree blooms in the low area have already been frozen out again. They are already black and falling off the trees. The high ground pears, however, look great and have a nice fruit set.
• Persimmons and Sawtooths are not affected by the frost pocket. In the last 10 years, I have only seen one bad crop with those species. That was a year when we had a very unusual late freeze in May.

I just wanted to pass this information along and hope that it might help others. PS - unless we have an unusual late freeze, it looks like 2022 could be the best apple and pear crop I have seen in my life. Take care. and good growing.

 

[sandbur]

Most of the fruit growers on this forum are way above average in their knowledge and probably already know the following, but I am posting this just in case it might help some new growers out. However, some of you experienced people might like to read it too, because it's a good illustration from a real life example.

I have some important advice for anyone who is planting apple and pear trees - Take Frost Pockets into consideration. Frost Pockets occur at low ground where cold air can fall and settle. Remember - warmer air rises and colder air falls. Many years, just a degree or two of temperature can be the difference between a bumper crop and a total failure. I'm not saying to completely avoid planting trees in low areas, but I would recommend using some restraint until you can gauge how bad the impact might be on your particular piece of ground.

Telling my own personal experience with my frost pocket at my farm is the best illustration that I can give for this subject. At one point in time, all of my trees were planted on high ground away from my low ground. However, in 2014, I decided to add a few more trees, and I planted some in the low area and some on the high ground with the other trees. Since that time the difference in fruiting has been dramatic. Shown below are some bullet points with the most important facts:

• In the low ground area, The pear trees I planted in 2014 have never been able to produce. Last year one of the trees had 4 or 5 pears on it, and that is the only pears I've ever seen down there. However, the pears on the high ground started producing 4 years after they were planted, and have been doing great ever since then. The two groups of trees are only 300 yards apart, and the only difference is the elevation.
• Even though the pear trees in the low area haven't been able to produce, they have grown big. They are much larger than the trees that have been producing. That make perfect sense, because if you aren't making fruit, you have more energy to devote to vegetative growth.
• The apples and crabapples in the low area have been able to produce some, but they have not been as productive as the trees on the high ground. It looks like that could possibly change this year. They are loaded with blooms, and unless we have an unusual late freeze, they look to be on par with the high ground trees this year.
• This year, the pear tree blooms in the low area have already been frozen out again. They are already black and falling off the trees. The high ground pears, however, look great and have a nice fruit set.
• Persimmons and Sawtooths are not affected by the frost pocket. In the last 10 years, I have only seen one bad crop with those species. That was a year when we had a very unusual late freeze in May.

I just wanted to pass this information along and hope that it might help others. PS - unless we have an unusual late freeze, it looks like 2022 could be the best apple and pear crop I have seen in my life. Take care. and good growing.

I would add that planting some fruit trees on a south slop and some on a north slope might give you protection against a late frost taking out blossoms. Of course, the north slope needs to get sunlight(gentle north slope).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Native Hunter]

I would add that planting some fruit trees on a south slop and some on a north slope might give you protection against a late frost taking out blossoms. Of course, the north slope needs to get sunlight(gentle north slope).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Near the top of my south facing slope at home seems to be a great place for apples and pears. I’ve only had one issue with one tree. I had a Liberty destroyed by sunscald at that location. Other than that it has been smooth sailing. I don’t have any trees on a north slope, but I see your point.

 

[b116757]

North slope trees will probably bloom later also so they escape some late frosts.

 

[Native Hunter]

North slope trees will probably bloom later also so they escape some late frosts.

My frost pocket trees bloom later too, but it doesn’t seem to keep the pears out of trouble.

 

[b116757]

I have a low spot along a seasonal dry creak bed that I badly want to plant some pears but have been reluctant to because I’m sure it’s a frost pocket. Early morning fog will always collect in that area. I’m sure cold frost air would act similarly. I should probably just plant persimmons in that area, I believe they are much more late frost tolerant with their latter bloom time.

 

[sandbur]

North slope trees will probably bloom later also so they escape some late frosts.

That is what I was trying to say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chummer]

My entire property is a frost pocket. I have a river across the street and it sucks in the cold air. 2 miles away can be 10-12 degrees warmer. I have taken advantage of a couple knobs to put trees but there are years with no apples on any of the trees.

 

[b116757]

I have both Kieffer pear trees from Tractor Supply and improved Kieffer from Willis Orchard planted 20’ apart. The two Kieffer are in full bloom the two improved Kieffer barely have swollen buds I only mention it as noteworthy because they clearly must bloom much latter. They may also be junk I can’t say yet only second leaf for me but they are most certainly different.

 

[yoderjac]

I have both Kieffer pear trees from Tractor Supply and improved Kieffer from Willis Orchard planted 20’ apart. The two Kieffer are in full bloom the two improved Kieffer barely have swollen buds I only mention it as noteworthy because they clearly must bloom much latter. They may also be junk I can’t say yet only second leaf for me but they are most certainly different.

One of my partners bought "Kieffer" pears years ago. I don't think they are actually kieffer based on the pear shape. At least they don't match some of the pics I've seen. They are quite prolific and produce pears every year for us. Unfortunately, they do nothing for attraction. They are all on the ground and eaten before our archery season comes in. They do provide deer food. I think many folks use the word "Kieffer" pear to mean a generic pear. Of course, it is possible that ours were mislabeled, but I doubt it. He bought two batches a year apart and they are all the same.

 

[Native Hunter]

This is just a reminder and friendly warning - don't forget to add bracing to the trees that you topwork. I was going to do this one and some others this week but waited too long. We had strong winds on Friday, and this one snapped off. Now, I will have to let the tree grow back and do it again next year.

 

[b116757]

That sucks aggravating when stuff like that happens.

 

[TreeDaddy]

One of my partners bought "Kieffer" pears years ago. I don't think they are actually kieffer based on the pear shape. At least they don't match some of the pics I've seen. They are quite prolific and produce pears every year for us. Unfortunately, they do nothing for attraction. They are all on the ground and eaten before our archery season comes in. They do provide deer food. I think many folks use the word "Kieffer" pear to mean a generic pear. Of course, it is possible that ours were mislabeled, but I doubt it. He bought two batches a year apart and they are all the same.

My Kieffers are fire blight magnets....... Including those from the wildlife group

bill

 

[Native Hunter]

I have one correction to make on this thread. Back in Post #45 I said that the pears in the frost pocket had frozen out again this spring. However, I later noticed that this was not completely true. Some of the pear trees had maybe 20% production, and one tree (a Senator Clark) had an incredible crop. Two crabapples in the low spot also had extremely nice crops (Dolgo and Eliza's Choice). One thing I noticed about both the apples and pears in the frost pocket - they matured later than the same varieties on the high ground. My drop times were much later on the low ground trees. Some of the Senator Clarks were still dropping into early November. Best wishes.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have one correction to make on this thread. Back in Post #45 I said that the pears in the frost pocket had frozen out again this spring. However, I later noticed that this was not completely true. Some of the pear trees had maybe 20% production, and one tree (a Senator Clark) had an incredible crop. Two crabapples in the low spot also had extremely nice crops (Dolgo and Eliza's Choice). One thing I noticed about both the apples and pears in the frost pocket - they matured later than the same varieties on the high ground. My drop times were much later on the low ground trees. Some of the Senator Clarks were still dropping into early November. Best wishes.

Good info on the high vs. low ground trees.