2025 pruning question

[crappieman2380]

Hey everyone. Pruning season for me in NW PA is still a month away, but I was taking the dog for a walk thru my trees today and have a question on pruning one tree in particular. I am very new to this so bear with me and any info is greatly appreciated.

I have 2 turning point trees that are going on their 4th season in my ground. They were planted as 4ft whips from bluehill. One of them has done well and really took off last year. It's pushing probably 10ft tall and even threw about a dozen apples last year. The second tree is about 40yds away and has struggled. I'm around 6ft tall and it's barely as tall as me after 3 years. Last year the scrawny tree threw off 2 strong shoots from the lower part of the tree that grew probably 3ft. My question is on the scrawny tree should I prune the original tree and keep one of these new shoots in hopes that it's a better grower, or prune off the two low shoorlts and hope the original tree takes off this year?

Pic of the thriving tree



Pic of the scrawny tree

 

[crappieman2380]

On a completely unrelated note, i also snapped a pic of this candy crab going on its 3rd season in the ground. I planted 2 of these the as 2ft whips and my mother laughed at how small they were compared to the others i planted. Well, these have honestly been the best growing trees I have for those who are interested. The first year they put on 4ft of growth, and another 3ft or so last year. It needs a bunch of lower growth snipped off, but is shaping up to be a really nice straight tree that looks to not need much attention as far as keeping a central leader compared to some of my other trees.

 

[bigboreblr]

If you are limited with room, replace the tree that doesn't thrive. You got some pruning to do. I prune mine well, so might be tough for me to give advice. Anything under 4ft tall, remove. Or remove the lowest 2 or 3, wait a year and remove the rest the next year.

IF you don't see that branch being part of the permant structure, remove it sooner than later.

The candy crab. I'd remove that competing leader and everything below it. Trim back all branches by 1/3 of what grew last year. The leader on top, I'd pretty much cut that in half. MAke sure it is noticeable longer than any other branch up top there. But, still trim those branches.

By picking good certain branches and taking some of the years growth off, you are promoting a bgger stronger branch as a result. Also, take some string and bend some of those lateral branches down some to get a better angle on the trunk.

I use these alot. MAybe 6-10 in a young tree like yours. I have order probably around 250 of these.

Amazon.com : branch trainer

Some jute rope would be helpful to tie branches back too.

With the pruning you should have tons of material to graft a few new trees. mehrabyan nurseries has anty and m111, both good for clay pa soil. your local soil and water might have wild apple, siberian crab, or maybe even dolgo you can graft too. Just that candy crab alone, you could probably make 20-25 trees from a decent prune.

 

[NorthWI]

I would try to save the scrawny tree. I have cut back trees like that before with good results. You could cut off the trunk old main trunk just above the lowest shoot and take a few inches off the top of the shoot as well. That would give it a good chance at stimulating growth. Most likely you will see some good growth by mid summer if its going to work.

 

[cavey]

First tree, I would take off every lower branch in the caged area up to a height that I would want to mow around off (the thing that sucks about smaller cages is your always fighting with the cage as it "V"s up the the lower branches and you dont get good crotch angles - the evil of cages that you have to have if we were millionaires we would have fenced in orchards or huge cages). That being said I often do leave lower branches on trees in my food plot areas - cage size permitting as I believe the lower horizontal branches can afford some trunk protection against bucks rubbing the trees - a high pruned tree can be an open trunk opportunity for a buck to come in and rub --- its a gamble either way.
Start training those upper branches with spreaders/weights/ rope to improve crotch angles, then once pulled down prune the ends. You can make the pruning cut leaving a bud in the direction you want the branch to arch.
The top of the tree I would pick one of those two leaders and nip it off, the ones that are just below but are out pacing the leader I would end prune a bit so the leader is dominant. Then I would look back down the tree and prune off a few of those lateral branches to create good horizontal spacing between each layer of lateral branches. Maybe start by spacing branches a fist height apart with a good clock work of branches coming off the trunk in a way that they dont cross or compete.



IMO the 2nd tree I would short stake the tree to bring it back to center, prune the bottom ten or so branches and see what the tree does after a good pruning.
I would then take the top leader and take half of last years new grow off (looks to be a foot) and leave 6 inches or so. If it does not take off you could graft it or replace it. You have a fair amount of trees so you can play with the tree a bit and give it a chance. Poke around by the roots a bit to see what going on down below Im wondering if you have some root issues.


Third tree I would take out that competing smaller central leader like branch and all the branches below it. You can use tooth picks or small spreaders on that tree as well to improve crotch angles .


Nice looking trees, caged and window screened, - you could paint the southsides of the lower trunks with watered down latex and as long as you have good weed control your doing what you realistically need too. Your ahead of 80 percent of the people who try to grow fruit trees!

That all being said - I need to go do the same thing to a many many of mine - so take my advise as the couch hero im being right now

 

[homerj]

Bottom three are stealing vigor from the central leader. Top cut is competing to be the central leader

 

[homerj]

Cuts I'd make this winter if this was my tree.

 

[bigboreblr]

stark nursery has decent pruning descriptions People have hunter aroud multiple leader trees probably more than central leader. Debating whether to prune a few that way.

I like prunng those fast growing competing leader though. Seems the tree really bulks up the next year. Some pruning can be done during the summer time too. Cleaning up branches you don't want. No so much cutting bac each one your keeping.

 

[crappieman2380]

Thank you all for the advice. Yes, many of the trees I have threw a ton of growth lower than the cage height this year and I intend to cut most of it off. I'll be honest, I've read alot of information on pruning since I planted these trees ( this site and elsewhere ) but it is still somewhat intimidating to me to start whacking on them with how much I had to baby them the first year or two hauling buckets of water do to dry summers even though I'm sure they'll be better off with the pruning.

I'm still somewhat torn on what to do with the scrawny turning point though. While it has not done a whole lot, it still comes back every year so I'd hate to just rip it out and start over with a new tree. With the 2 new strong lower shoots it threw last year my original thought was the same as what NorthWI said and cutting the original main trunk and letting one of the new vigorous shoots take over. Some of you say to prune all of the lower stuff since it's stealing vigor from the original trunk, but most of that growth was just last year. The original trunk had just not grown much at all the first 2 years compared to the other trees around it, which makes me wonder if it would ever actually take off.

Again, thanks for all of the advice. I've been spending way too much time this winter wandering around the trees thinking about what needs to be cut and what to leave.

 

[bigboreblr]

That 1st tree homej showed. Take a good look at the main leader. Did it get any dieback. There was healthy leaves on the top of the main leader? If not, you may need to go back to one of those lower shoots from the side. Doesn't look like it ha dieback issues from the pic, but the growth shape is suggestive there.

Not pruning is way worse than a not so great prune. Only way to learn is to dive in. Ignore the tree, a big chunk of it might split in half after a storm.

 

[homerj]

If the boxed growth all happened last year, the tree is growing well. It is just being robbed of vigor by the lower branches. If the boxed growth didn't happen last year, then maybe something else is going on.

 

[cavey]

The scrawny tree just has to much going on down low that will never benefit the tree and is only holding it back, pruning it should instill some vigor. Ultimately its your tree and you get the fun of making the call. Its simply the fact that when we cage them up the lower branches do not go out horizontal and form horrible branch angles and are just going to push up into other branches and be a problem. Its better to cut them to a mowing height - once the cages are pulled and with these size cages you will have a browse height established by the deer anyways none of those lower branches will be of any fruit production advantage - they may help ward off some buck rubbing but will later just be an issue when you have to saw off those larger dia lower branches.

For all that being said your not wrong at looking at going to the base of the tree and starting over:

There is nothing wrong with going down to the Highest of those two bottom shoots and cutting the tree back to that point and taking the lower shoot off as well; you would then have a full root system pushing that one new leader. You would essentially be starting off with a new tree with an established root system. I would then cut back the top each year for two or three years to establish a better core trunk. You have lots of trees so there is no loss on that option just time. The lower trunk base might look a bit wonky for a few years but thats a pretty normal thing with fruit trees.

The main thing is to start pruning - lots of pruning and branch training.... they grow up fast and we get so far behind fast. Just dont be afraid to cut .... one of the best thing you can do for your trees is aggressively prune especially when young. Dont focus on beautiful fast upward growth and think its the best thing, the core and shape are more important than maximizing upward growth. Its good but not everything.




Often in the end the tree will dictate whether its going to be a central leader or open concept tree - Trees especially pears will do their thing all we can do is try

 

[H20fwler]

Like most have said prune the low stuff, prune anything crossing and train the leader.
The scrawny tree throwing shoots, if they are coming out of the ground they are from the rootstock.

Prune low stuff hard, get the trees putting growth up and out right now, hit them with triple 12 in spring...the scrawny tree should take off soon.

 

[crappieman2380]

Thanks again everyone! This is all great advice for a newbie like me to learn from. Can't wait to get out there in a few weeks and start shaping these trees up

 

[Mortenson]

I used to reference a runt Kerr from SLN on antonovka roots. I should find that thread and give an update. The tree came to me about 12" tall. Wasn't happy but planted it. Over the next 3 years it maybe got to 36" or so. Should've pulled it. Kept it trimmed textbook each year just as an experiment. Guessing it's maybe 12' tall now at around 6 years old. I'm sure that's still way behind, but it actually looks like a tree finally. I set it back last summer because of course the one cage I had to hit with the 15' mower was that one, and I put a decent little artificial buck rub on it.

 

[H20fwler]

I used to reference a runt Kerr from SLN on antonovka roots. I should find that thread and give an update. The tree came to me about 12" tall. Wasn't happy but planted it. Over the next 3 years it maybe got to 36" or so. Should've pulled it. Kept it trimmed textbook each year just as an experiment. Guessing it's maybe 12' tall now at around 6 years old. I'm sure that's still way behind, but it actually looks like a tree finally. I set it back last summer because of course the one cage I had to hit with the 15' mower was that one, and I put a decent little artificial buck rub on it.

I’ve had a very similar experience to that.

Maybe 8-9 years ago I bought some pear trees from Stark as whip’s. Two were Honey Sweet, one grew great the other put on a couple wispy little branches but was just stalled.
I had plenty of other trees going so I just let that stunted one do its thing, after maybe four years it finally woke up decent and took off. It is almost the size of the other Honey Sweet now.

 

[crappieman2380]

Reading your guy's experiences give me hope that my scrawny tree might finally take off someday

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Reading your guy's experiences give me hope that my scrawny tree might finally take off someday

If you trim it as they have showed, give it some triple 10 a few times this year, that tree will be caught up to the other one next year. Dont let your trees waste energy on anything you are going to trim off later, cut them now and it will put the energy into the main branch, and likely some fresh shoots that you can trim next winter.

 

[bigboreblr]

Be hopeful, but have a plan B ready.

Most of my trees are at home. It is amazing the difference between watered and not. Try to water when you can. Even if they seem to be ok.

IF this tree is a variety you only have 1 of, graft your cuttings to a branch on another tree. Do it to two or three spots, maybe one will take.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

First tree, I would take off every lower branch in the caged area up to a height that I would want to mow around off (the thing that sucks about smaller cages is your always fighting with the cage as it "V"s up the the lower branches and you dont get good crotch angles - the evil of cages that you have to have if we were millionaires we would have fenced in orchards or huge cages). That being said I often do leave lower branches on trees in my food plot areas - cage size permitting as I believe the lower horizontal branches can afford some trunk protection against bucks rubbing the trees - a high pruned tree can be an open trunk opportunity for a buck to come in and rub --- its a gamble either way.
Start training those upper branches with spreaders/weights/ rope to improve crotch angles, then once pulled down prune the ends. You can make the pruning cut leaving a bud in the direction you want the branch to arch.
The top of the tree I would pick one of those two leaders and nip it off, the ones that are just below but are out pacing the leader I would end prune a bit so the leader is dominant. Then I would look back down the tree and prune off a few of those lateral branches to create good horizontal spacing between each layer of lateral branches. Maybe start by spacing branches a fist height apart with a good clock work of branches coming off the trunk in a way that they dont cross or compete.



IMO the 2nd tree I would short stake the tree to bring it back to center, prune the bottom ten or so branches and see what the tree does after a good pruning.
I would then take the top leader and take half of last years new grow off (looks to be a foot) and leave 6 inches or so. If it does not take off you could graft it or replace it. You have a fair amount of trees so you can play with the tree a bit and give it a chance. Poke around by the roots a bit to see what going on down below Im wondering if you have some root issues.


Third tree I would take out that competing smaller central leader like branch and all the branches below it. You can use tooth picks or small spreaders on that tree as well to improve crotch angles .


Nice looking trees, caged and window screened, - you could paint the southsides of the lower trunks with watered down latex and as long as you have good weed control your doing what you realistically need too. Your ahead of 80 percent of the people who try to grow fruit trees!

That all being said - I need to go do the same thing to a many many of mine - so take my advise as the couch hero im being right now

Like most have said prune the low stuff, prune anything crossing and train the leader.
The scrawny tree throwing shoots, if they are coming out of the ground they are from the rootstock.

Prune low stuff hard, get the trees putting growth up and out right now, hit them with triple 12 in spring...the scrawny tree should take off soon.

These 2 posts are pretty much what I did at our camp with our apple & crab trees. Good advice ^ ^ ^ ^ ^