Don Higgins blend or CIR Switch

[roymunson]

Have a new set of switch going in this spring. I go to church with a habitat guy who does land clearing for a living and he likes Don's stuff better than just standard CIR. Anyone with Real World experience? I know Don can be polarizing, but I'm interested just in the product. Most is going to be a new stand of switch, but I'll probably overseed an existing stand after we burn it in March.

 

[Brian662]

Lots of people in the "industry" are going with the new RC strains developed in Southern Canada (Ontario, I believe). They claim to have better standability, increased seedling vigor (quicker growing), longer maturity dates (grow taller). I bought 50 lbs of RC Big Rock last year and planted about 30 of it, I can say it definitely looked solid for first year growth even though I mowed it several times.

I have about 15 acres of CIR switch and it's ok, wish it was a little taller, so I have high hopes for the RC Big Rock.

No experience for me with the Higgins stuff.

Note: we had a heavy, wet snow this year in mid December and 90% of my switchgrass is as flat as a dance floor. There is a reason that habitat/diversity pockets are needed when planting this stuff. Ideally it would stand back up when the snow melts, but it hasn't melted and we got 15 more inches last week.

 

[Bill]

Don Higgins and I didn't get along very well on the old forums. Of course he wouldn't remember me.
Lets just say I don't really like his personality.

Having said that, and in light of that, I did do his dare to compare and bought a 10 acre bag because it was in line with the cost of CIR.
I wouldn't use CIR again. RW gets tall...

But I still don't like his personality.

 

[Bill]

This pic is from September 2015 (man time flys) in a 3 year old stand that I treated with gly and 2,4-D in April before the switch germinated.

You can just see the roof of my side by side.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Don Higgins and I didn't get along very well on the old forums. Of course he wouldn't remember me.
Lets just say I don't really like his personality.

Having said that, and in light of that, I did do his dare to compare and bought a 10 acre bag because it was in line with the cost of CIR.
I wouldn't use CIR again. RW gets tall...

But I still don't like his personality.

This matches what I have also seen by others that have compared cultivars with RW switch. Here is a link for those curious. I might be tempted to plant it to try it out on our places in northern MO. If you want to avoid giving money to Don, you could also check out Kanlow. I planted a few acres of it side-by-side to some CIR and the Kanlow definitely gets taller (and is a little better adapted to wet areas, if that is important).

 

[Mortenson]

Someone on the qdma forum (maybe it was Bill?) practically guaranteed that Don's grass was kanlow. Not sure if that debate ever got settled.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Someone on the qdma forum (maybe it was Bill?) practically guaranteed that Don's grass was kanlow. Not sure if that debate ever got settled.

I am back working in academia and am in some grass breeding circles. I have also worked in the private ag industry. Real World is just not a big enough company to have created all of these commercially available cultivars across multiple species. First of all, traditional plant breeding takes almost a decade to breed and produce seed that is commercially viable for a single cultivar of a single species. If they were truly breeding their own, they would need to show that it is different (data), file a plant protection patent, and trademark the name. As far as I can tell, they haven't done any of these things. I would not be at all surprised if the RW switchgrass wasn't just Kanlow among a few other already commercially available cultivars.

I understand he needs to put his own spin on all of the products he and his company peddle. For the most part, the ones I've seen do seem like decent products. But the sales pitches were old the first time I heard them.

 

[Tree Spud]

I am back working in academia and am in some grass breeding circles. I have also worked in the private ag industry. Real World is just not a big enough company to have created all of these commercially available cultivars across multiple species. First of all, traditional plant breeding takes almost a decade to breed and produce seed that is commercially viable for a single cultivar of a single species. If they were truly breeding their own, they would need to show that it is different (data), file a plant protection patent, and trademark the name. As far as I can tell, they haven't done any of these things. I would not be at all surprised if the RW switchgrass wasn't just Kanlow among a few other already commercially available cultivars.

I understand he needs to put his own spin on all of the products he and his company peddle. For the most part, the ones I've seen do seem like decent products. But the sales pitches were old the first time I heard them.

That ... truth ^^^^^

Developing proprietary products that are patentable is a very costly and time consuming process. One of the biggest hurdles is that there is no prior art (existing design).

 

[Bill]

Someone on the qdma forum (maybe it was Bill?) practically guaranteed that Don's grass was kanlow. Not sure if that debate ever got settled.

Not me but I remember that.

It’s definitely not proprietary. No seed tag on the bag that I got. But it was priced accordingly and worked. Probably is kanlow and something else mixed.

 

[Tree Spud]

My CIR gets to 6'-7' on marginal sandy loam soil. I think how much and when you get rains has a big impact on height. Mid summer rains in July/Dug are critical growth.

 

[Foggy47]

Been spending a few hours and studying latest in Switchgrass. Check Albert Lea Seeds for a product called RC TECUMSH Switchgrass. Seems its more drought resistant and good on sand and good to zone 3 which is interesting to me. Also said to be better standing in winter (but they all say that). Seeing some planting switch with forks and shrubs and trees to make a diverse mixture. <---------that may appeal to me if I can find where to buy such a mix of seeds. anyone?

 

[Bill]

I don’t know if there is a mix like that. You may have to add the trees. I know the field I posted a pic of from 2015 is now full of red cedar anywhere from 3 foot to 6 foot tall. So I know cedars can grow in thick grass. I can’t wait to see what the field does in a few more years. I’m hoping for a bedding meca.

 

[Tree Spud]

I don’t know if there is a mix like that. You may have to add the trees. I know the field I posted a pic of from 2015 is now full of red cedar anywhere from 3 foot to 6 foot tall. So I know cedars can grow in thick grass. I can’t wait to see what the field does in a few more years. I’m hoping for a bedding meca.

Been spending a few hours and studying latest in Switchgrass. Check Albert Lea Seeds for a product called RC TECUMSH Switchgrass. Seems its more drought resistant and good on sand and good to zone 3 which is interesting to me. Also said to be better standing in winter (but they all say that). Seeing some planting switch with forks and shrubs and trees to make a diverse mixture. <---------that may appeal to me if I can find where to buy such a mix of seeds. anyone?

Red cedar definitely does well growth wise in CIR. I also have them popping up.

 

[roymunson]

I think I'm probably gonna try Don's switch blend. New stand I wanna frost seed into what was cereal grains last year. Talked to a land clearing guy who uses a lot of Don's stuff, and he really likes it. Says it stands up better that CIR. I have some CIR and if nothing else this will give me something good to compare to it. Diversity, right?

Anyone had good success frost seeding it? I was going to mix it with lime and run the bag seeder for a while. Looking forward to habitat season.

 

[Booner21]

I think I'm probably gonna try Don's switch blend. New stand I wanna frost seed into what was cereal grains last year. Talked to a land clearing guy who uses a lot of Don's stuff, and he really likes it. Says it stands up better that CIR. I have some CIR and if nothing else this will give me something good to compare to it. Diversity, right?

Anyone had good success frost seeding it? I was going to mix it with lime and run the bag seeder for a while. Looking forward to habitat season.

Not specifically dons but I have frost seeded switch several times and had very good luck.


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[Bill]

I know guys do spring plant it. But frost seeding is all I’ve ever done. Heck my first stand I broadcasted on top of 8 inches of snow. Really helped me see my seed coverage.

 

[Foggy47]

Seen so many claim you gotta first have bare nuked ground to establish switch. How much truth to that?

 

[omicron1792]

Seen so many claim you gotta first have bare nuked ground to establish switch. How much truth to that?

Kinda true.

If flat ground, I would go for as bare as possible.

If any slope, I like a winter annual that you nuke so some bare ground and some vegetation to prevent dirt and seed from washing. I think for any frost seeding this role holds too. If bare ground I would drill.

You know for you I would always drill if possible.

 

[Booner21]

Seen so many claim you gotta first have bare nuked ground to establish switch. How much truth to that?

First time that we did I sprayed roundup and oust the fall before per Paul Knox’s recommendation this was on established fescue. Other times just into round up read crops the next winter dealt with more week pressure initially but the switch caught up just fine in a couple years.


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[Foggy47]

Just gonna leave this here.