DIY seed blends?

[EarthySpirit]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie when it comes to planting plots. I purchased 51 acres recently and am planning to create several new food plots on the land. I want to create plots with variety of seeds to feed deer from september (bow season in ky - my and is in Northern KY) through winter. But the blends done commercially seem to be pretty expensive. I'm thinking about buying seeds by the bulk at a feed store and mixing my own. What are the pros and cons of doing this? I want some early fall stuff (like clover) mixed in with fall/winter like oats, wheat, rye, and brassicas for the colder weather, all in the same plot. What do you all think about this plan to do it myself vs. paying for the premixed stuff? thanks ahead of time for any advice.

 

[scott44]

I'd look into LC mix/rotation, it gives you feed pretty much year.

Dbltree seed mix and rotation
Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[Catscratch]

Pros would be cheaper per pound and complete control over what you plant (a lot of those BOB mixes aren't exactly what you want and have a lot of rye grass and other fillers in it that you probably don't want).
Cons would be maybe buying more than you need. I save seed over when I get too much though.

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[EarthySpirit]

Will extra seeds keep till the following year?

 

[scott44]

Will extra seeds keep till the following year?

Yes if you keep them dry and away from the rodents. I store mine in totes in the polebarn.

 

[Catscratch]

Will extra seeds keep till the following year?

I've never had a problem saving seed over. Make sure to mouse proof the container. Like like a metal trashcan with lid.

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[TreeDaddy]

I'd look into LC mix/rotation, it gives you feed pretty much year.

Dbltree seed mix and rotation
Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

Gospel

bill

 

[Someday isle]

Once you do a little price checking you'll notice one of the pros right away.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Remember a Rape seed is very small, radish seeds are 10 times as big. They don't flow well when broadcasting. When doing a large mix, do small seeds in one pass broadcasting and large seeds in one pass broadcasting. Helps keep your plot more even if that is what you are looking for.

 

[wiscwhip]

Yup ^^^ keep your clover seed out of the broadcaster bin with your cereal grains as well..........they should also be done separately.

 

[j-bird]

Mo makes a great point - lots of BOB seed is a mixture of large and small seed and can create some issues with planting depth. By mixing your own you can keep things isolated and then plant as best for that seed. Typically the larger the seed the deeper it needs to be planted. large seed like corn and soybeans need to be down in the soil and covered, while small seed like turnips and clovers can simply be broadcast and pushed into the soil and do just fine. BOB mixes also tend to be full of seed coatings and fillers and at times even stuff you may not want or may not grow well in your conditions. Those products are marketed across the country so they tend to have something in them that will grow anywhere. Some of these mixes are not so bad and the availability of them is always a plus - especially for a small plot, so they have their place. Just make sure you read the seed label (they are required by law to have one) and make sure you are getting what you want. Keeping seed from year to year is fine as well. Keep it dry and I try to keep mine cool, but not allowed to freeze. I also like to broadcast at a reduced rate and make multiple passes to ensure an even spread of the seed vs trying to do it all in one pass as well.....I have too many times when I start and I'm set just a bit heavy and then come up short in the end.....frustrates me. Multiple passes in different directions takes more time but gets a more even coverage. The LC mix that was shared is a very tried and true mix that many, many folks have had great results with (it's called LC mix because of it's creator Paul Knox - who used the handle LickCreek - hence LC mix). It is not a commercially available mix and we affectionately call it "LC's mix".

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Mo makes a great point - lots of BOB seed is a mixture of large and small seed and can create some issues with planting depth. By mixing your own you can keep things isolated and then plant as best for that seed. Typically the larger the seed the deeper it needs to be planted. large seed like corn and soybeans need to be down in the soil and covered, while small seed like turnips and clovers can simply be broadcast and pushed into the soil and do just fine. BOB mixes also tend to be full of seed coatings and fillers and at times even stuff you may not want or may not grow well in your conditions. Those products are marketed across the country so they tend to have something in them that will grow anywhere. Some of these mixes are not so bad and the availability of them is always a plus - especially for a small plot, so they have their place. Just make sure you read the seed label (they are required by law to have one) and make sure you are getting what you want. Keeping seed from year to year is fine as well. Keep it dry and I try to keep mine cool, but not allowed to freeze. I also like to broadcast at a reduced rate and make multiple passes to ensure an even spread of the seed vs trying to do it all in one pass as well.....I have too many times when I start and I'm set just a bit heavy and then come up short in the end.....frustrates me. Multiple passes in different directions takes more time but gets a more even coverage. The LC mix that was shared is a very tried and true mix that many, many folks have had great results with (it's called LC mix because of it's creator Paul Knox - who used the handle LickCreek - hence LC mix). It is not a commercially available mix and we affectionately call it "LC's mix".

Excellent way to do it! Great point, that is exactly what I do!

Edit: I will also add this: I weigh the seed out for the plot. if it calls for 6lbs per acre, that is what gets put on. Too many guys over seed their plots, and end up disappointed at the performance, and the plot. Too much seed in food plotting is almost never a good idea.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Excellent way to do it! Great point, that is exactly what I do!

Edit: I will also add this: I weigh the seed out for the plot. if it calls for 6lbs per acre, that is what gets put on. Too many guys over seed their plots, and end up disappointed at the performance, and the plot. Too much seed in food plotting is almost never a good idea.

That brings up another question, is it better to have few large brassicas, or many smaller brassicas? Do deer prefer the young smaller plants? Or the huge size bulbs, and tubers?

 

[j-bird]

That brings up another question, is it better to have few large brassicas, or many smaller brassicas? Do deer prefer the young smaller plants? Or the huge size bulbs, and tubers?

First of all the use of brassica from deer varies greatly from region to region. My deer essentially won't touch the stuff (bulb or forage). Some places the deer eat it as soon as it germinates. If you plant and fertilize as recommended you "should" be able to get both forage and bulbs. Now that can also be grossly influenced but what you plant. Brassica is a general term and has several different plants in it and they can even have different varieties to get different results.

Rape - rape tends to be a forage only sort of plant. DER - Dwarf Essex Rape - is the most common that I am aware of and will produce large dark green leaves for forage
Turnips - many different varieties - some for bulb production some just for forage. PTT - Purple top turnip - in my opinion again the most common and gets you a decent balance of forage and bulb production. Appin is a type I have used that is all forage.
Radish - again some varieties are more for forage and other for bulbs. GFR - Ground Hog Forage Radish is the most common. Daikon radish is another. From what I have seen they are pretty much all the same, but my experience is limited.
There are others in this family as well - so simply be aware that you are talking about a family of plants with lots of varieties inside the various types as well to give you what ever result you may be after.

Someone like Mo could more than likely go on and on about all the different varieties out there. The thing is you have to figure out IF the deer will eat them and if so which part and then how that times out with your hunting and other needs. I use brassica in general as an insurance crop. My deer will always have something to eat if needed and if they don't the bulbs are good for the soil. Brassica as a whole tend to be fairly cheap as well. Most turnips you can get a pound (which is a lot of seed as the seeds are very small - like clover) for like $2 or $3. Not trying to give a sermon here - there is just a lot of if's, but's and and's when you use a tend like "brassica". Some folks here have far more experience with them than I so I am sure they will chime in as well.

 

[wiscwhip]

Wow j-bird, let yourself get sucked into answering a totally loaded question there ^^^, but a good explanation nonetheless.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I think J-Bird covered things pretty good. There are a lot of different seed companies out there selling Brassicas. Everyone has the best. But when it comes down to it a Radish is a radish so to speak. They are all Daikon Radishes. It drives me nuts when they start screwing with names of these products I sell. I now sell Orion XL Ladino Clover. Of course it is the same Ladino clover I have been selling for years, they change the name to make it more attractive. Its done by a lot of companies out there at your expense, because they try and charge more for it with little to no science behind it to back it up saying we have the best Ladino clover. Frankly it pisses me off, when all these companies put a name to something that has been around for years and call it the best! Just buy bulk seed at the best price and don't look at the pretty buck pictures!

 

[wiscwhip]

I think J-Bird covered things pretty good.

My statement was based on the fact that everyone's deer react so differently to brassicas in general, when I read the words "best" and "better" and "prefer" in relation to brassicas, I consider that to be a highly loaded question, because you will likely get a slightly different answer from everyone.;)

 

[MoBuckChaser]

I can tell you what we have had good luck with,on our farms and customers. Radishes, Vivant Brassica, the tuber is a little smaller than a radish tuber but the same color. Purple top turnips are cheap at under $2lb and the deer seem to hit them hard in both Missouri and MN. DE Rape is one of the cheapest Brassica's out there at around a dollar a pound, no tuber, but the deer love the leaves. All require 100lbs per acre of some form of Nitrogen. Peas and Oats have been destroyed every time I use them in MO. Austrian Winter Peas, not as much. Winter Rye, and Winter Wheat are great in both states for us. The white Clovers have been killer for food plots, because they get used from early spring right into the winter. Great to have clover around for stressed bucks coming out of the winter! In my area Red clover seems to volunteer in, so I don't plant it for plots. We use a lot of White Dutch, Ladino, and Alsike on shitty ground. All need fertilizer if you want tonnage! Get your soil tested! Good Luck and take pictures.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

My statement was based on the fact that everyone's deer react so differently to brassicas in general, when I read the words "best" and "better" and "prefer" in relation to brassicas, I consider that to be a highly loaded question, because you will likely get a slightly different answer from everyone.;)

When you get a plant like a brassica that has deep roots and draws nutrients from a large area, I believe they draw up everything, good and bad. I went to a continuing education class and was told about tannins in the soil. Tannins can leave a off taste in brassicas I believe. They smell funny in your well water, that is what I soften for here in EC MN. So I think it may have some credence to why some deer don't eat brassicas or certain brassicas around the country. Just my opinion on the matter, that is why I tell my food plot customers to try different products to see what works for there soil and deer!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I guess my question was more aimed at seeding rates, because Mo brought up seed lightly to get more yield (basically). My deer love the plants from the start of germination. My first year planting radish, and turnips I seeded lightly, and the deer ate them to the ground, and nothing grew. So the following 2 years I seeded heavily, but at the cost of not getting large bulbs, or tubers, but deer were in there thick just the same. I would say the average bulb was golf ball size, and tubers carrot size. The deer hammered them since they germinated, and right up until I had a foot of snow. Then they must have wintered elsewhere, or my cameras are not catching them anymore, which is all together possible. Do deer prefer large older bulbs? Or young smaller bulbs, in your experience?

I tried to reword to not have it as a loaded question.