DIY seed blends?

[wiscwhip]

I guess my question was more aimed at seeding rates, because Mo brought up seed lightly to get more yield (basically). My deer love the plants from the start of germination. My first year planting radish, and turnips I seeded lightly, and the deer ate them to the ground, and nothing grew. So the following 2 years I seeded heavily, but at the cost of not getting large bulbs, or tubers, but deer were in there thick just the same. I would say the average bulb was golf ball size, and tubers carrot size. The deer hammered them since they germinated, and right up until I had a foot of snow. Then they must have wintered elsewhere, or my cameras are not catching them anymore, which is all together possible. Do deer prefer large older bulbs? Or young smaller bulbs, in your experience?

I tried to reword to not have it as a loaded question.

It is still loaded, YOU have to try different seeding rates to see what YOUR deer prefer, what everyone else's deer do with brassicas might be completely different than what you experience.;)

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I understand that, my deer prefer them all the time and wont leave them alone. I was wondering what others are experiencing. If their deer prefer them large? Or small.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Seeding rates are more for competition amongst the plants themselves, you get to many plants and it gets dry, they act like weeds to each other and the result can be stunted plants. Even in good conditions too many plants will steal nutrients and shade from each other. Just because you put out more seed ,does not mean you are getting more tonnage. There is a reason they recommend rates!

 

[scott44]

I understand that, my deer prefer them all the time and wont leave them alone. I was wondering what others are experiencing. If their deer prefer them large? Or small.

I shoot for 8-10 lbs/acre on the brassicas and my deer devour them but only after a certain point. They start with the greens/tops and move to the bulbs, I guess you could say they like the smaller bulbs first and then to the larger bulbs but really it doesn't matter they eat them all eventually here.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

A person can get larger or smaller bulbs depending on the planting date, even when seeded at the correct lbs per acre. Here is a customer picture that planted PTT in may or early june. Not good for a fall plot. Just sayin....

 

[j-bird]

Like Mo stated - too much is too much. The plants start robbing from each other. Planting at the suggested rate is what you should shoot for. Now where things get tricky is when you start combining different seeds and one seed is 6 lbs to the acre and the other is say 10, you have to make sure you weigh those seeds out per the plot size or you run the risk of being too heavy and causing your own issues. Sounds like what you need is more food or fewer mouths to feed or a means to keep the deer off of them until they can get some tonnage produced for you.

Do you use any sort of cereal grain like rye?

 

[j-bird]

Wow j-bird, let yourself get sucked into answering a totally loaded question there ^^^, but a good explanation nonetheless.

I didn't see it as a loaded question as much as a complicated answer with lots of variables to consider......

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Our brassicas did great this year with a rate of 8 lbs. per acre. Big tops and big bulbs. DER, GFR, PTT, Pasja forage brassica mix. The year before we planted too thick and got small plants and tiny bulbs.

Mo - post #16 - The fancy-sounding names come from a method of advertising used to suck people in to buy ANYTHING. It's called " pseudo-scientific jargon " I had that crap in economics when I was in college. It appears in advertising for laundry soap, toothpaste, paint, electronics, ........ pretty much anything. If it sounds " new and improved " or high-techy, it'll sell. Your Orion XL super, jumbo, turbo Ladino clover - for instance.

 

[wiscwhip]

I didn't see it as a loaded question as much as a complicated answer with lots of variables to consider......

Actually, it is a pretty simple answer really. As I said before, each person has to try these things for themselves to know how their own deer are going to react to the differences, no internet forum answer can tell you that. That said, I completely understand why 4wndeye asked what others are seeing, maybe he has never tried adjusting the seeding rate and wanted to know what affects it has had for other guys, no harm in asking. Thing is, it may or may not correlate to what he will experience on his own place. Our deer ate every brassica we ever planted, right to the dirt most years. I bet we tried 20 or more different types and varieties over the years, every one got eaten. Big leaves, small leaves, tubers, no tubers(DER), it didn't matter to our deer. Others will find their mileage may vary. The answer for each of us is to try it for ourselves to see what happens. If we seed half the plot at the very top end of the seeding rate, is that more preferred to our own deer than the other half of the plot that we planted at the very bottom end of the seeding rate? Pretty simple.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Like Mo stated - too much is too much. The plants start robbing from each other. Planting at the suggested rate is what you should shoot for. Now where things get tricky is when you start combining different seeds and one seed is 6 lbs to the acre and the other is say 10, you have to make sure you weigh those seeds out per the plot size or you run the risk of being too heavy and causing your own issues. Sounds like what you need is more food or fewer mouths to feed or a means to keep the deer off of them until they can get some tonnage produced for you.

Do you use any sort of cereal grain like rye?

I plant the radish and turnips at the same time around the 4th of July. They grow alone until September 1st, then I add Winter rye to the plot. 3 years ago, I planted as recommended and they ate it to the ground, and I never got any bulb growth. So 2 years ago I went extra heavy, I didnt get big growth, but it out competed the deer in it. I may drop back this year some and see if I can find a happy medium.

I agree, I may need more acreage but for now 2.5 is all they can have. I have only been doing 3/4 in turnips and radishes, then the rest is either in clover, or other cereal mixtures. This year I am planting the 2 bigger plots in radish and turnips. And leaving the small plot in clover still, since it is a decent crop.

 

[wiscwhip]

So you could adjust the seeding rate in half of each of those ^^ plots for a side by side comparison.

 

[EarthySpirit]

Helpful info. My first try on my land, I think I'll try different things in all 5 different plots to see how they do. Excited to do some frost seeding in a couple weeks here in KY.

 

[wildfire]

As Mo said, ph and adequate fertilizer is just as important as seeding rate.

 

[Tap]

Like Mo stated - too much is too much. The plants start robbing from each other. Planting at the suggested rate is what you should shoot for. Now where things get tricky is when you start combining different seeds and one seed is 6 lbs to the acre and the other is say 10, you have to make sure you weigh those seeds out per the plot size or you run the risk of being too heavy and causing your own issues. Sounds like what you need is more food or fewer mouths to feed or a means to keep the deer off of them until they can get some tonnage produced for you.

There's 2 things that come into play with seeding rates.

Planting method is #1. Drilling requires less seeds per acre than broadcasting and the latest craze of no-till broadcasting ("Throw and Mow" for example) seems to need a higher rate than broadcasting into tilled soil. Cultipacking also has an effect.

#2 is seed viability. Planting "X" pounds per acre is assuming 100% of the seeds are viable. Do a rag doll test when you 1st get the seeds so you know you got quality seed, and possibly another test on seeds that have been in long term storage, or were stored in less than ideal conditions and adjust seeding rate accordingly.
Welters sometimes sells "Low-germ Kura Clover" (they advertise that they have low viability, they aren't trying to fool the customer) and the seeding rate needs to be adjusted. Know the viability before you decide the seeding rate.

 

[Tap]

There's 2 things that come into play with seeding rates.

Planting method is #1. Drilling requires less seeds per acre than broadcasting and the latest craze of no-till broadcasting ("Throw and Mow" for example) seems to need a higher rate than broadcasting into tilled soil. Cultipacking also has an effect.

#2 is seed viability. Planting "X" pounds per acre is assuming 100% of the seeds are viable. Do a rag doll test when you 1st get the seeds so you know you got quality seed, and possibly another test on seeds that have been in long term storage, or were stored in less than ideal conditions and adjust seeding rate accordingly.
Welters sometimes sells "Low-germ Kura Clover" (they advertise that they have low viability, they aren't trying to fool the customer) and the seeding rate needs to be adjusted. Know the viability before you decide the seeding rate.

Her's the viability test on the seeds I received last week. I'm getting almost 100%.

W. Pa.

 

[Tap]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie when it comes to planting plots. I purchased 51 acres recently and am planning to create several new food plots on the land. I want to create plots with variety of seeds to feed deer from september (bow season in ky - my and is in Northern KY) through winter. But the blends done commercially seem to be pretty expensive. I'm thinking about buying seeds by the bulk at a feed store and mixing my own. What are the pros and cons of doing this? I want some early fall stuff (like clover) mixed in with fall/winter like oats, wheat, rye, and brassicas for the colder weather, all in the same plot. What do you all think about this plan to do it myself vs. paying for the premixed stuff? thanks ahead of time for any advice.

Here's a seed calculator fro Green Cover Seed. It's pretty interesting to use, but keep in mind that not all of the varieties are "deer feed". Many have other purposes like soil health, livestock feed, pollinators, etc and aren't what you may want for a wildlife plot.
Be forewarned...This interactive calculator has a huge number of variables and it's almost addictive to play with different goals. But it totals seed percentages, price, and even shipping cost. It's an excellent resource.
SmartMix by Green Cover Seed: Home

 

[FarmerDan]

This was a fun thread to try to follow. I'm not sure I spent enough time considering what everyone has contributed. All good stuff! But, did anyone stop to consider and offer why we sometimes use blends? Why they are good in certain situations and not so much others? And did anyone consider why commercial blends are what they are?

I'm not sure I can adequately cover it. Two problems....and I think they have been covered in the other posts. One is seed size. How the blend is seeded is important assuming a blend of seeds is beneficial. The second problem is germination and growth timing.

A couple examples and then I will let it go. Everybody likes the Lickcreek planting of rye, clover, and peas if you prefer. Not to put too fine a point on any of this, those seeds do not blend. If you try to broadcast them together, the smaller clover seed will fall to the bottom of the hopper and be expelled first. Then the rye and the peas. It's not that extreme, but you get the idea. Now, if you drill those same seeds you can do it in one pass, probably. But, that's not a blend. Here, the timing works. Rye grows and provides an almost symbiotic relationship with the clover. The rye grows, protects the clover (moderates the micro-climate), and then it dies and gets out of the way for the clover.

I would propose (not that we do it, do we?) planting clover and brassicas creates a competitive relationship. The seed size is right, but the timing isn't. And we never think of a blend of corn and something, right?

The commercial blends, in my judgement, are for one reason. To make sure that something green happens. Variety is good for the diet, but I still think the reason commercial blends are what they are is to make sure something...anything...grows. Every time a seed fails, it's the seed's fault - and by way of liability - it's the seed company's fault. Six different varieties of clover in a commercial blend? It's a leap toward a guarantee that something will grow. That might sound cynical, but I spent a little time in the seed business.

So, if the seed size and the germination timing are right, go for it. If the opposite is true, think about it. If the blend provides real benefits (you figure out what they might be) and the seed size is wrong, then do multiple planting - in the same space or in different spaces. And consider there will be blends that don't work at either level - size or timing.

Not to put too fine a point on it....sometimes blends work. Lot's of times for many reasons, they do not.

 

[FarmerDan]

Sometimes we write and add nothing to the discussion....that would appear to be me, here, now, today.

 

[Bluecollaroutdoors]

Maybe these commercial mixes should put the three ingrediants in three bags within there fancy bag so we can seed it however we want?

I routinely drag then spread peas oats and rye, drag again, pack, spread clover and pack again. Seed depth is very important.

Just because we say we have a field of DIY "X" doesn't mean we just mixed five seeds in a hopper and fired away. Different sizes require it spread in stages.

 

[Bill]

That's true. When I plant clover and oats it's always two passes. Same with radishes and other small brasica seed. Always more than one pass because what Dan says is true. The small stuff sinks to the bottom and comes out first.