Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
it makes sense to me that a hodgepodge of nonstop food and cover could be more attractive to deer than them being completely separate. It’s just way harder to hunt and predict where movement will be without blowing up.
Food Plot & Property Flow where there is no ag/destination fields
- Thread starter gjs4
- Start date
Ive got 15ish years into serious deer hunting and deer layout. My threads on here have looking like a newbie for the simple reason I am horrible with objective (KISS) views of my own. The ole "cant see the forest through the trees" deal. You nailed it and I appreciate your input an insight.
I was wondering about destination plots versus kill plots, and this circuit vs that, and being so different from everyone around me.....I am likely just missing the basics due to over thinking.
That was my goal- give the deer the best of what they want and then figure out how I could capitalize. They never showed. Last year this was a big thicket with no food and the deer quantity and quality were better. Suspecting EHD last year (22), banner acorn crop to which at least half the trees are oaks in these big woods hills (23) and drought this past (23) may be the culprits for this. Only one year there and it feels like there are so many variables its like shooting at moving targets that are coming from multiple directions. Its easy to see, and admit; I am lost.
Thought it would be as simple as: add food (being the lowest hole in the bucket)> deer show> bucks show> set buck traps.
BenA
5 year old buck +
For small properties, I like a primary feeding plot and maybe a small plot on the way to it, make great bedding, even if you already have plenty of cover, and make as few travel corridors as possible of good security cover going to it. Hunt the travel corridor or the food source if it isn't disruptive.
Wind Gypsy
5 year old buck +
What kind of quantity/quality differences are we talking about? I can relate to not being confident if your changes are hurting or helping.
On two properties over the past 5 or so years I've seen similar situations where it's not 100% clear if the "improvements" are hurting or helping things. I'm pretty dang confident in both cases that the primary difference in quality/quantity of bucks present during the rut has been near solely based upon what bucks are alive in the area and out of our control (as we haven't been killing bucks). The primary obvious impact I've seen that I know is due to my efforts is a bachelor group of bucks spends a lot of time on my property in sept into oct because of the improvement in food i've planted.
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BenA
5 year old buck +
This is an 850 acre section of a 2100 acre tract I managed about 20 years ago. Those open spots are all food plots that I created and planted twice per year. It was a mistake because the "flow" kept the deer "flowing" all over the place and scattered. I would have been much better off with less scattered food, even on a property that large. When I bought my Kentucky property, I started out the same way with wanting food plots scattered around to get a "flow". It is only about 50 acres. I quickly learned my lesson on this one. I'd much rather have less options on where to go for the best food. That's not to say I don't want food all over. I want browse all over the place. I just want my best food source to be in one spot that I know all the deer want to go to, then I can figure out how to hunt them better.
Had some 3s,4s and a 5 yo last yr. I think most of them made it due to when those pics were, but have no proof of it.
This year only had a few glimpses of 3yos...maybe a couple random ghost older buck pics is all
100% with its related to what is there and I didnt really go down in quality from this summer to fall....just quantity as due to shifting or getting killed somewhere.
Is there a percentage you'd aim for?
Premium food is non existent in my area so i don't want to be over browsed and i am trying to have a major draw in an area with cornfeeders everywhere.
BenA
5 year old buck +
Not really a percentage. The 2% amount used to be thrown around a good bit, but it’s all relative. The best way to find out is to plant a mixture of something with red and white clovers, cereal grains, brassicas, chicory, etc and put an exclusion cage or two on it. With that south plot expanded to 3.5 acres or so, you shouldn't have a huge problem with overgrazing if you have a mixturelike that. If you do, you need to do a good bit if FSI to produce browse. I'd do the FSI anyway.
It seems the YouTube professors all say you should have your destination (aka the largest) closest to great access/egress giving you depth of cover (copyright) for buck bedding away from the social pressure of does bedding on this plot....with pathways and a couple of kill plots, or bait stations, along the way defining travel. Anyone feel different?
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
I am not a huge horn hunter. I do shoot bucks, some year I dont even use the cameras, or look at them after the season is done. scent mindful, but not scent free. Some of my best ones have been late season. Likely hunting pressure.
Every property is different To be honest with I kind don't like those destination and kill plot terms. One way to learn your open plot is to put your cameras on time lapse. Thats what you want anyway, to see them during the day.
High competition places, work the late shift. Offer late season food. Have a way you can hunt comfortably in the cold. Could be a 12v battery and a 12v heated blanket in a treestand to a nice shack.
I see alot of open and activity around your land. I think you're ok with food plot. Realling the that C shape. I f anything maybe foodplot that right of way somehow if possible. Simple spray n rye treatment.
ON the east side of your property there a house or long garage. Head directly west onto your property. See the two steep hilly funnels. Thats a sout facing hill too. Keep doing your food plot thing, but focus on manking that area brushy. maybe make a cosy brushy edgeed trail leading to youe plot. In mature forest, deer like to follow lines of seclusion / brush. Even if its only 2ft tall vs open floor. I went from spending days seeing nothing in a forest to days seeing a few just doing that 1 change. The shy deer will be using that little stream to cover their tracks. Make sure you brush to there.
I use lime and fertilizer to promote brushy areas, even if its a mild amount. Thousands of taxes each year, push up seclusion a few year withs $100 or two of fertilizer.
A trail of brush doesn't necesaily mean a tractor path with brush on the sides. Just the brush alone is the path for them. Whether it be ones side or another, or in the middle. Hire a logger to clear cut a path going to an area, then work on making it brushy,
IF you cant beat them, joing em. Feeders if legal can actually help you. You're foodplot will be more lush once the other baiters are done for the season. The first year I jined camp in the adirondacks I saw a very cool sight. The NYSDEC using feeding trucks. They did not dump a line of corn, they used soybean meal. It is easier on their stomaches.
Foodplot wise, you got enough acerage to mix things up. See what they like late in the season. Daikon radish is moderately left alone until late season. Great soil builder too. Or, find a good blend. Always liked mixing wheat and oats with other things. Oats gets them in early, and wheat keep them coming later on.
Regenerative no till no fertilizer is talked about alot, and there stuff to learn from it. But, not every property has to do that. All depends on your goal, your comittments both time and money, and lso the condition of your land. I am doing plots in the adirondacks, junk sandy soil. Barely a thing growing there where I started, now I got stuff 3ft tall when I am throwin' n mowing. I needed a bit of fertilizer each year to get there. Like 100lb/acre. I also try to fertilize twice a year. LEt the summer stuff get a dose, and let hte fall planting get some too.
IF anything on your plot the lower C one, make a little V funnel going south. Let them cme n go with a little starting point. Don't use all the open space you can get, make the edges brushy.
You just might be able to hunt that right of way and look way down to that little opening spot I mentioned. Be a long shot though.
How many people are hunting here, how often are those xtras there, I also forgot how your accessing the property. I thought it was to the north. Brushing out a parking area helps lot. When I go to my farmland about 90 minutes away, I get prepped a few minutes down the road. Suit up, make sure everything is where I need it, then crack the windows and turn the heat off so I dont sweat.
Every property is different To be honest with I kind don't like those destination and kill plot terms. One way to learn your open plot is to put your cameras on time lapse. Thats what you want anyway, to see them during the day.
High competition places, work the late shift. Offer late season food. Have a way you can hunt comfortably in the cold. Could be a 12v battery and a 12v heated blanket in a treestand to a nice shack.
I see alot of open and activity around your land. I think you're ok with food plot. Realling the that C shape. I f anything maybe foodplot that right of way somehow if possible. Simple spray n rye treatment.
ON the east side of your property there a house or long garage. Head directly west onto your property. See the two steep hilly funnels. Thats a sout facing hill too. Keep doing your food plot thing, but focus on manking that area brushy. maybe make a cosy brushy edgeed trail leading to youe plot. In mature forest, deer like to follow lines of seclusion / brush. Even if its only 2ft tall vs open floor. I went from spending days seeing nothing in a forest to days seeing a few just doing that 1 change. The shy deer will be using that little stream to cover their tracks. Make sure you brush to there.
I use lime and fertilizer to promote brushy areas, even if its a mild amount. Thousands of taxes each year, push up seclusion a few year withs $100 or two of fertilizer.
A trail of brush doesn't necesaily mean a tractor path with brush on the sides. Just the brush alone is the path for them. Whether it be ones side or another, or in the middle. Hire a logger to clear cut a path going to an area, then work on making it brushy,
IF you cant beat them, joing em. Feeders if legal can actually help you. You're foodplot will be more lush once the other baiters are done for the season. The first year I jined camp in the adirondacks I saw a very cool sight. The NYSDEC using feeding trucks. They did not dump a line of corn, they used soybean meal. It is easier on their stomaches.
Foodplot wise, you got enough acerage to mix things up. See what they like late in the season. Daikon radish is moderately left alone until late season. Great soil builder too. Or, find a good blend. Always liked mixing wheat and oats with other things. Oats gets them in early, and wheat keep them coming later on.
Regenerative no till no fertilizer is talked about alot, and there stuff to learn from it. But, not every property has to do that. All depends on your goal, your comittments both time and money, and lso the condition of your land. I am doing plots in the adirondacks, junk sandy soil. Barely a thing growing there where I started, now I got stuff 3ft tall when I am throwin' n mowing. I needed a bit of fertilizer each year to get there. Like 100lb/acre. I also try to fertilize twice a year. LEt the summer stuff get a dose, and let hte fall planting get some too.
IF anything on your plot the lower C one, make a little V funnel going south. Let them cme n go with a little starting point. Don't use all the open space you can get, make the edges brushy.
You just might be able to hunt that right of way and look way down to that little opening spot I mentioned. Be a long shot though.
How many people are hunting here, how often are those xtras there, I also forgot how your accessing the property. I thought it was to the north. Brushing out a parking area helps lot. When I go to my farmland about 90 minutes away, I get prepped a few minutes down the road. Suit up, make sure everything is where I need it, then crack the windows and turn the heat off so I dont sweat.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I like food and bedding to be as far from each other as possible. I hunt travel patterns as close to bedding as I can safely get. I dont hunt plots.
I figure the further they have to travel the more likely I can catch them in the daylight. Hunting travel patterns gives less opportunity to bump deer.
I figure the further they have to travel the more likely I can catch them in the daylight. Hunting travel patterns gives less opportunity to bump deer.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
IF you can get equipment down there and won't get into heat wit hthe authorities, making a little island about the size of a 2 car garage or a little bigger would be really good. just deep enough to keep a layer or water and 4-6ft wide. Pile the dirt on the island, add some less desireable ripariam brush. Take willow branches tie them together and bury them in ther.e A little brushy spot thye can conceal their scent in would hold and extra buck on your property.
BenA
5 year old buck +
What I don't understand about Jeff Sturgis is why he has trouble getting mature bucks to bed close to food.It’s not an issue that others have.
As I "understand" it is the social pressure of does taking up the real estate right up next to the food. Perhaps its the populator of deer? IDK....but i also can be confused by Jeff
BenA
5 year old buck +
I understand what he is getting at, but I don’t see where that is happening unless the property is set up that way. If he would set up his property different, he could get bucks to bed closer to food. It's almost like he made a problem just to have a solution.
Telemark
5 year old buck +
That's what I'm buying for the coming season. That reminds me, I need to update my cotton seed thread.
Ive spent most of my career a consulting occupation and admittedly can say that at times it becomes more of magic trick than a real fix. Not trying to be hard on one guy in particular....but books and videos that are confusing either means it is the sales pitch (as no one else can understand it but the person selling it) and/or it is: a combination of: lessons learned, new plausible spins and little bit of lady luck used to make deer habitat jambalaya. Could go down a road of JS&WHS, but many consultants arise from their success in grip and grin pcs, others came from a time when there was no one doing it....and the modern ones are based on social media presence more than anything. Cant fault success or be jealous of another's leap into opportunity.
There is skill with all of them, bs with all of them/us, successes seen and failures hidden. In this case, and ending my diatribe, a guy has a farm that produces big enough deer for a consistently admirable resume through a combination of his efforts and locational happenstance. The reality is the landscape dictates more than the consulting. Simply put- everyone's property is a wrinkled piece of metal (varied in shape) with a consultant being a random tool from a garage to alter that shape, and the deer presence and movement being water poured atop. Sometimes you can make the deer do what you want, with the biggest contributor to the success of failure is the shape of the metal you're given in the first place. Cant put bucks where they don't want to be.
I bet enough guys spread corn this way in Ohio that the Amish already have a work around for a buggy mount.
Natty Bumppo
5 year old buck +
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