TreeDaddy
5 year old buck +
Better yet, get a soil test and post results with Attn:Farmer Dan
Then we all can benefit from hearing Farmer Dan think out loud
bill
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Too much food plot.
- Thread starter MadMadHoosier
- Start date
Better yet, get a soil test and post results with Attn:Farmer Dan
Then we all can benefit from hearing Farmer Dan think out loud
bill
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
You must be old because you’re wise! Lol
Telemark
5 year old buck +
This is pretty much what I was thinking. I wouldn't worry about feeding deer in summer, and there seems to be enough cover around. Twenty acres of clover, sweetened up with rye and brassicas in fall, would be worth trying at least for a few years. Definitely put out some cameras and see how the deer utilize it throughout the year.
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
Not sure what kind of dirt you have but Durana is a clover that would work well up there. It will last through most and maybe all of your summer. If it’s really hot and dry, it will look like it died but with cooler nights and fall rains it will bounce back.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Some cameras. I probably have the largest (non-commercial) spread of cameras around. I was an early adopter of CuddyLink, and given my distance from the farm, they are a much less expensive way to scout throughout the year.
So here is my game plan so far. Figure out when best to plant Jap Millet in the flood bottom so it will mature near the rut, and possibly still be standing for some later duck hunting. Is there a rice that might also do well in western KY?
The farmer will plant corn in the 50 acre field this year. And he will plant orchard grass and clover in the 20 acre fingers. He said something about cutting it in May. Would that be his 1st and only cut, or would he do another one before or after that? I’ll ask him, but assumed one of you might know. But when ever his last cut, I’ll probably follow up with some winter wheat and possibly turnip and radish. Then can decide if I want to continue hay with him in future years, or just nurture the clover for the future.
Then in my other little plots, I think I’d like to plant some soybeans, sunflowers, clover, turnip and radish. Again trying to plant for a near rut maturity???
Appreciate any suggestions on seed choices and timing for best “wildlife” results. I’ll also look into some soil samples
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
I wrote a whole bunch of stuff (surprise, surprise) and deleted it.
(delete-delete-delete)
Cutting hay...
When is this orchardgrass-clover mix going to get planted? This spring? Not the best time. In the year of a spring establishment there might be no cut - or maybe one cut of weeds.
The other thing I'd like to put on the table is this - how to say it - Me, if I'm the farmer planting orchard - grass clover and I'm investing my money to do it I'm doing it because I think it's valuable to me over a number of years. The first year I wouldn't expect much of anything but cost if I need to plant in the spring. There's no re-evaluation by the owner after one year. There's lots I don't know about the specific relationship here and what the expectations might be.
Who's paying for what?
Late summer, early fall planting come with a little different expectation.
For an established hay crop in Kentucky two cuttings is a minimum, but I think the farmer involved in this said (somewhere above) his last cut would be in August? Three cuts are possible and around my part of the world four are not uncommon in good years. The good news / bad news is yields (tons/acre) are low. Most counties in western Kentucky are below the state average, averages being what they are (NASS).
Two cuts might be it, but don't count on it.
(delete-delete-delete)
Cutting hay...
When is this orchardgrass-clover mix going to get planted? This spring? Not the best time. In the year of a spring establishment there might be no cut - or maybe one cut of weeds.
The other thing I'd like to put on the table is this - how to say it - Me, if I'm the farmer planting orchard - grass clover and I'm investing my money to do it I'm doing it because I think it's valuable to me over a number of years. The first year I wouldn't expect much of anything but cost if I need to plant in the spring. There's no re-evaluation by the owner after one year. There's lots I don't know about the specific relationship here and what the expectations might be.
Who's paying for what?
Late summer, early fall planting come with a little different expectation.
For an established hay crop in Kentucky two cuttings is a minimum, but I think the farmer involved in this said (somewhere above) his last cut would be in August? Three cuts are possible and around my part of the world four are not uncommon in good years. The good news / bad news is yields (tons/acre) are low. Most counties in western Kentucky are below the state average, averages being what they are (NASS).
Two cuts might be it, but don't count on it.
S.T.Fanatic
5 year old buck +
All of the famers around me cut around mid-late may. (except establishment year) after the first cutting they cut every 28 days and get at least 4 total cuttings if not 5.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Oh my gosh, this is a great education. I bet you guys just shake your head at some of us wanna-be farmers. In my mind, hay was going to be like planting corn or beans, with a harvest at the end of the year after a planting. But I understand what you are saying and don’t want to waste my farmers time or resources. I’ve got a call in to him to learn, how often, and when he plans to plant and cut, both first and subsequent years. And if it is still ok for me to plant winter wheat on top of his last orchard grass cutting for the year. (he had said it would be ok with the fescue, before you guys educated me that fescue was not in my best interest.). I think August was his planned last cut if he had done fescue. The only month I heard him mention about orchard grass was May.
Farmer pays for all cash crop stuff and I pay for all wildlife stuff.
He called back while I was typing this. I mistakenly thought hay would be planted in spring, but he would plant it this August or so with no harvest this year. He said he would get three good years and a couple ok years of cutting after that. He would typically cut in May/June and again in August/Sept - depending on rain. It is ok if I plant some winter wheat, turnip and radish after his last cut for the year.
Glad I’m good at some other stuff, because there is a lot I don’t understand about farming!!! Luckily it is just a hobby and not a livelihood.
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
MadMad Hoosier,
Get everything y’all agree to in writing. That way the two of you do not remember things differently. Something as simple as a handwritten note that you both sign.
Get everything y’all agree to in writing. That way the two of you do not remember things differently. Something as simple as a handwritten note that you both sign.
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
Sometimes a hand written note is hard for 2 parties to sign, I usually text, and repeat what we all agreed apon, then say is this all look correct to you, then you have it in text, and whether the other agreed on it.
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
That would work. I just think it’s a bad idea to leave it to what was said and how each remembers it.
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
I don’t think a signed hand written note is anymore legal then a text with all agreements are highlighted, and both agree that was the agreement.
When I started renting our farm out, I always had a lawyer draw it up and had both parties sign and had it notorized.
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Planting a cool-season perennial grass, like orchardgrass (&/or fescue, which is what holds the world together in this part of the country) is best done in fall - like late August to October. Spring seeding is gonna be iffy... too hard to get into the fields at the right time to drill, and too much likelihood of getting into drought situations before the grass is established.
Depending upon thickness of stand and fertilization , you could probably get a cutting in May of the establishment year, and a second one later in the summer. Some folks would plant a thin 'nurse crop' of wheat at the same time, if planting into a prepared seedbed, but for my pastures/hayfields, I usually just no-till drilled a mix of Persist Orchardgrass and a novel-endophyte fescue, like Max-Q. My success drilling clover at the same time was poor - I think the NRCS rental drills planted it too deep, so I usually just overseed clovers/lespedeza in Feb and let frosts work the seed in. I understand that since you're managing this primarily for deer, you probably don't want fescue... but in a pasture for cows and horses... it's hard to beat, here in the 'Fescue Belt'.
With a well-established perennial grass/clover hayfield, I'd count on at least two cuttings per year, maybe 3, if fertilization is optimal and rainfalls are timely. No one in western KY is gonna be cutting hay every 28 days like somebody growing alfalfa in MN.
Orchardgrass does seem to thin/peter out after a few years, and will need to be reseeded periodically. Red clover, which the hay folks seem to prefer, is gonna mostly disappear after about 2 years. Ladino clover varieties will hang in there pretty good, so long as you keep soil pH right.
Depending upon thickness of stand and fertilization , you could probably get a cutting in May of the establishment year, and a second one later in the summer. Some folks would plant a thin 'nurse crop' of wheat at the same time, if planting into a prepared seedbed, but for my pastures/hayfields, I usually just no-till drilled a mix of Persist Orchardgrass and a novel-endophyte fescue, like Max-Q. My success drilling clover at the same time was poor - I think the NRCS rental drills planted it too deep, so I usually just overseed clovers/lespedeza in Feb and let frosts work the seed in. I understand that since you're managing this primarily for deer, you probably don't want fescue... but in a pasture for cows and horses... it's hard to beat, here in the 'Fescue Belt'.
With a well-established perennial grass/clover hayfield, I'd count on at least two cuttings per year, maybe 3, if fertilization is optimal and rainfalls are timely. No one in western KY is gonna be cutting hay every 28 days like somebody growing alfalfa in MN.
Orchardgrass does seem to thin/peter out after a few years, and will need to be reseeded periodically. Red clover, which the hay folks seem to prefer, is gonna mostly disappear after about 2 years. Ladino clover varieties will hang in there pretty good, so long as you keep soil pH right.
Something Farmer Dan said above really hit home for me. He implied some farmers might just rape your soil. Do nothing but take, take, take and never raise a finger to help your land at all.
From personal experience, this happens. I just kicked a bum to the curb. I gave him back his measly $600 for the year and I hope he chokes on it.
It took me one call to lease it to someone I know will treat my land better.
But otherwise a quite positive experience for me
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From personal experience, this happens. I just kicked a bum to the curb. I gave him back his measly $600 for the year and I hope he chokes on it.
It took me one call to lease it to someone I know will treat my land better.
But otherwise a quite positive experience for me
.On our hay ground farmer cuts and bales for 2/3 of bales I get 1/3 and the farmer gets the option to buy my 1/3 back at market cost per bale.I have also seen it where you may want to keep a farmer cutting hay or farming all open ground at least every other year to keep it in ag to lower taxes.In Kansas if you rent farm ground to a farmer and don't specify that it is only for farming they can retain the hunting rights also.So something else to check on.There is someone that will farm it the way you want.Go to the USDA office and see if there is a young starting farmer.Also most states have a requirement when you have to give notice to a farmer.In Kansas it's 30 days prior to March 1 st I think.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Well a few weeks ago my guy ended up bailing some of the native grasses, weeds, and Japanese millet that I planted in the spring. The last week or so he has been disking the ground, and just started bringing lime in to spread, as evidenced on my security/trail cameras. I’m not sure if he planted before the lime, or will be planting the orchard grass and clover soon after?
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
Didnt read all the posts on here. But, a few things....
Contact a AG specialty or horse specialty realtor. They likely could easily hook you up with someone who drives equipment around and profits from leases. My brother in law does that sometimes 4-5 hours away from his dairy farm. Does about 4-5000 acres, even does off-season clover and rye too if it's close to his dairy farm.
Realtor cant help you, try calling a large feed dealer or farmer services like fertilizer / seed dealers. They'll know someone who can plant on your land. Don't have to be the neighbor's farm.......
Contact a AG specialty or horse specialty realtor. They likely could easily hook you up with someone who drives equipment around and profits from leases. My brother in law does that sometimes 4-5 hours away from his dairy farm. Does about 4-5000 acres, even does off-season clover and rye too if it's close to his dairy farm.
Realtor cant help you, try calling a large feed dealer or farmer services like fertilizer / seed dealers. They'll know someone who can plant on your land. Don't have to be the neighbor's farm.......
