4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
I know one thing, I wouldnt let it go empty, and grow weeds. If you dont find someone to farm it this season, I would atleast plant a cover crop to keep something growing.
Too much food plot.
- Thread starter MadMadHoosier
- Start date
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Great feedback guys and I really appreciate it. Both my previous farmer, and this one, historically blamed damage in these field on deer. And I think they are right for the most part, losing maybe 25% of each field each year. But last year was 100% loss in every field. Looked like the beans were stunted and lots of weeds in them. And while my deer population is better, since a bout of blue tongue disease 10ish years ago, it’s still not as many deer as when I first purchased the farm. So I honestly think there was a bug, disease, or soil problem that ruined this years crop.
Talked with the farmer this evening to see if he was doing ok though the ice storm and power outage, and to ask what specifically he would do if hay. Electric is off, but he is good. He then said he would plant a mix of fescue and clover, and that his last mowing for the year would be sometime in August. I’m guessing, cause I really don’t know, that the clover would do ok from that last mowing till the first frost? I also asked him if I had time, if it would hurt him if I drilled some winter wheat or winter rye (is one better than the other?) into the clover after his last cut. He said it would actually help him.
Since I’m really unsure that I could positively do something myself, this seems worth trying for at least a year. I’ve not heard much about alfalfa around here, but will ask my farmer at our next conversation if that is anything he would consider.
Again, I really appreciate the input. These field are pretty much in the middle of my property, with flooding woods to the north, and hilly woods to the south. It seems ideal if I can attract and hold deer near this center.
Talked with the farmer this evening to see if he was doing ok though the ice storm and power outage, and to ask what specifically he would do if hay. Electric is off, but he is good. He then said he would plant a mix of fescue and clover, and that his last mowing for the year would be sometime in August. I’m guessing, cause I really don’t know, that the clover would do ok from that last mowing till the first frost? I also asked him if I had time, if it would hurt him if I drilled some winter wheat or winter rye (is one better than the other?) into the clover after his last cut. He said it would actually help him.
Since I’m really unsure that I could positively do something myself, this seems worth trying for at least a year. I’ve not heard much about alfalfa around here, but will ask my farmer at our next conversation if that is anything he would consider.
Again, I really appreciate the input. These field are pretty much in the middle of my property, with flooding woods to the north, and hilly woods to the south. It seems ideal if I can attract and hold deer near this center.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Man my 2 cents…fescue is the devil. I get it if you want to earn some income off this acerage but id rather have a fallow field personally.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Man, I really don’t know a lot!
What is the Correlation between Fescue and Deer?
Another question. What’s your view on fescue grass? What is the correlation between fescue and deer? Visit to learn more.
www.growingdeer.tv
Looks like I’ll back out of that last conversation with the farmer.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Alfalfa would be awesome. I think you are in central ky? I would be surprised if they wouldn’t grow it there. Heck that is big horse country, dont horses love alfalfa?
BenAllgood
5 year old buck +
I get the not wanting to get rid of crop ground, but I think it really comes down to why you have the property. If it's for mainly deer and recreation, I believe converting to early succession is the way to go. This was a recent interview with Dr. Craig Harper talking about a similar property. I think he starts talking about that property mostly around the one hour mark.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Ok. And I’m trying to prepare for my next conversation with him, so I don’t agree to something else that might be detrimental. Is there anything else (hay wise) in addition to fescue I should not allow. I’d like to find something he would be willing to plant, that dovetails with my wildlife, so I’m not on the hook to do more with my limited time at the farm. I’ll try to Food plot it if we cannot find something mutual, and if not I can mow or strip mow every other year.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
I would avoid all the common pasture grasses like fescue, orchard, Timothy, Bahia (too cold up there anyway) and try to focus on alfalfa or red clover. Alfalfa may be too expensive for his trouble? Not sure, I’m not in that world but I know plenty of people justify it financially so it can’t be that bad. If he doesn’t want to go the direction you want you could always establish clover on your own. It’s some effort up front but it’s minimal after the initial investment. Burn it down in the spring, plant it, maintain grasses with cleth and broadleafs with 2-4db and you can have years and years of a high quality field with just one planting.
Stupid question: Are you talking burning with fire or light herbicide? I know some people hit their Durana with some light Glyphosate ("GREAT PRICE! at 134.00 at Tractor supply) occasionally.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Sorry herbicide. Unfortunately the price of poker has gone up substantially
Angus 1895
5 year old buck +
Fescue has spines under the leaf that abrades the tounge palate.
They make grazing alfalfa sanfoin might be another option
I wouldn’t be a skeered of orchard, brome, or rye grass
They make grazing alfalfa sanfoin might be another option
I wouldn’t be a skeered of orchard, brome, or rye grass
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
Thanks again for everyone's input. He said he would do orchard grass instead. What I just looked up online says it will be fine for quail, turkey, rabbit and deer, so hopefully I'm on a good path. He actually prefers it, but was worried how wet it might be when he needs to cut it in May. So we will both give it a try this year and reassess for next year.
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
I've been trying to stay out of the way, but this one bothers me a little. Don't take me wrong. Everything offered is solid. What bothers me is not (IMO) having enough information to make a better recommendation - the Op's personal preferences and distance-from-the-farm limitations aside. It troubles me to hear about a farmer wanting to farm a 50-acre field and not another 20. OK, yes, farmers like big fields. That the smaller fields were planted and failed - two years in a row-is curious. A couple things. By nature, generally, farmers don't care for soil fertility like they would if they owned the land. It's easy to plant a crop and carry off the soil nutrients in crop production without feeling the need to replace those nutrients.
I understand this is food plotting. So, the issues aren't burning. Its curiosity on my part. I'd like to see soil test results for all of those fields, big and little.
The growing medium is every thing. I'd like to or would want to know about the structure of the soil. That's easy enough to get from the NRCS Web Soil Survey. It's a little awkward to use, but it's filled with information to help get a better idea what's what. Then, to get more specific, go dig some (deep?) holes. Is what you see in the hole like what the soil survey says is close to describing what your seeing.
Slopes and elevations are important. Proximity to other land uses needs to be a consideration. Based on the limited picture offered I think I like the location of those smaller fields. If it were me and I could find a way to coax the productivity of those fields up a notch or two I'd be thinking about wanting "the farmer" to be planting an annual crop there, especially if I lived in Florida and the farm is in Kentucky. Kentucky is a big state. If I/we knew what county it could cut the speculation considerably. I haven't looked at what the states physiographic regions / provinces are, but they play a big part in what's possible. They are USGS constructs based on the geology of the the area. With that, we are back to things like topsoil and subsoil depths, slope, and constraints on what grow there.
Just (more) things to think about.
https://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm
https://www.uky.edu/KGS/geoky/physiographic.htm
https://pss.ca.uky.edu/soilatlas
I understand this is food plotting. So, the issues aren't burning. Its curiosity on my part. I'd like to see soil test results for all of those fields, big and little.
The growing medium is every thing. I'd like to or would want to know about the structure of the soil. That's easy enough to get from the NRCS Web Soil Survey. It's a little awkward to use, but it's filled with information to help get a better idea what's what. Then, to get more specific, go dig some (deep?) holes. Is what you see in the hole like what the soil survey says is close to describing what your seeing.
Slopes and elevations are important. Proximity to other land uses needs to be a consideration. Based on the limited picture offered I think I like the location of those smaller fields. If it were me and I could find a way to coax the productivity of those fields up a notch or two I'd be thinking about wanting "the farmer" to be planting an annual crop there, especially if I lived in Florida and the farm is in Kentucky. Kentucky is a big state. If I/we knew what county it could cut the speculation considerably. I haven't looked at what the states physiographic regions / provinces are, but they play a big part in what's possible. They are USGS constructs based on the geology of the the area. With that, we are back to things like topsoil and subsoil depths, slope, and constraints on what grow there.
Just (more) things to think about.
https://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm
https://www.uky.edu/KGS/geoky/physiographic.htm
https://pss.ca.uky.edu/soilatlas
FarmerDan
5 year old buck +
Agreed! But assumptions always gnaw on me.
MadMadHoosier
5 year old buck +
I value all the input, so I’ll try to fill in some of the gaps and the bigger picture. My 550 acres (Yellow Border) is in Western Kentucky, not too far from the land between the lakes (and Patti’s restaurant for those that know it!) My business partner has a similar amount of land in two parcels (Magenta Border). And another good friend of ours owns over 1000 acres in between us. An ideal situation where, for the most part, we are trying to improve the deer herd. But there are plenty of small parcels around us where “if it’s brown, it’s down”, so we recognize we can only do so much.
The north part of our parcels borders two creeks that intersect and often flood the hardwoods and into the edges of our crop fields. The north middle sections (including my 50 acre tillable) is mostly flat. The south middle section (including my 20 acres of finger plots) starts some gentle rolling and hills. And the very south section turns into a ridge that overlooks a small river. The deer love my north bottoms, but a lot of times our efforts down there are thwarted by untimely flooding. If flooding and visitation allows I going to try and get some jap millet in the two (gas line & power line) clearings to the northwest. Again, I really love the property and all it’s diversity.
I’ve never done soil samples, as I’ve always left the farming to my farmers. The original farmer seemed to have more success and I can speculate why. The new farmer seems to have gravitated more towards his growing timber business and farming is more of a traditional supplement. Given my distance and choices I really did not care, as long as the tillable acres were maintained by someone.
The farm is primarily for recreation with family, friends and customers, and hunting is just a small part of that. Besides riding ATV/UTV, we enjoy cutting new trails and building/improving stands. We do have plenty of sanctuary areas we leave for the deer to bed and feel safe. We used to hunt the property a lot harder, taking more deer, but since my wife went vegan, my house eats less than one doe per year. My brother and nephew will usually take a deer each, and a few friends might as well. My business parter and his family and guests hunt a LOT more than us. His north parcel is focused on ducks and geese that use the bottoms. And his crew will take a bunch of deer each year. The 1000 acre guy is even more of a duck hunter and has developed some terraces flats that he bird hunts every day he can. But his farm only has 2-3 serious deer hunters and sees very little pressure.
With that overview out of the way, back to my land. The 20 acre finger fields do get hammered by the deer, especially this year. Without knowing for sure, this years might have been because my farmer was planted weeks before the neighbors and I think all the deer in the area showed up to feast. There are plenty of larger parcels of tillable to my east and west, but if our is that early in the ground I guess it will get wiped out. I also seem to remember sone one saying the earlier soybeans are planted, the sweeter they are to the deer, but don’t know if that is really true.
I’ve tried a little food plotting over the years in the beginning with a disc and hand seed spreader, then with a 72” rotatiller and Van Brunt FB-A drill. No FarmerDan, and my poor results earned NotFarmerSteve. Usually caused by inadequate preparation or bad timing to get the seed in the ground. A couple years ago I got a Genesis 5 3PT and have seen better results, but have still had timing issues. My best starts were black oil sunflower plots, but the smallish plots were wiped out about the time heads started forming on top. I’m tempted to try a really big field of sunflowers to see if any can mature. I had some late soybeans and jap millet looking real good, but was so late, the frost knocked them out before they could do anything. I’ve told the wife I really want to focus on getting some good food plots in this year. Time will tell if that is really possible, but it’s just something I want to do, not something I need to do, so I’ll not lose any sleep over it.
I’ve asked the all three farmers about putting food plots in for me in the past, and non have wanted to mess with it. Could not even get them to spray a few plots while there spraying their crops. But honestly, I rather not spray at all if that is possible.
Boy it seems like I’ve said so much, maybe too much for some. Probably the biggest help I’m looking for at this point, is a suggestion on what to plant where and when. If I can get a plan on a calendar, hoping the weather cooperates with that plan, I might be able to plan enough trips to the farm for better success. I guess I already know I‘ll be trying to put some winter wheat or winter rye in the 20 acre fingers after the May cutting of Orchard Grass/clover. If flooding cooperates when is the best time to put jap millet in the bottom clearings? It could attract deer if dry or ducks if later flooded. We don’t really duck hunt, and if we did it would probably be on the business partners duck blind, but what the heck. When and what should I put in the other 7 small plots around the finger acres? I had a descent radish/turnip mix in some of them this year, but again too late to fully mature.
Thanks for any and all suggestions!!!
The north part of our parcels borders two creeks that intersect and often flood the hardwoods and into the edges of our crop fields. The north middle sections (including my 50 acre tillable) is mostly flat. The south middle section (including my 20 acres of finger plots) starts some gentle rolling and hills. And the very south section turns into a ridge that overlooks a small river. The deer love my north bottoms, but a lot of times our efforts down there are thwarted by untimely flooding. If flooding and visitation allows I going to try and get some jap millet in the two (gas line & power line) clearings to the northwest. Again, I really love the property and all it’s diversity.
I’ve never done soil samples, as I’ve always left the farming to my farmers. The original farmer seemed to have more success and I can speculate why. The new farmer seems to have gravitated more towards his growing timber business and farming is more of a traditional supplement. Given my distance and choices I really did not care, as long as the tillable acres were maintained by someone.
The farm is primarily for recreation with family, friends and customers, and hunting is just a small part of that. Besides riding ATV/UTV, we enjoy cutting new trails and building/improving stands. We do have plenty of sanctuary areas we leave for the deer to bed and feel safe. We used to hunt the property a lot harder, taking more deer, but since my wife went vegan, my house eats less than one doe per year. My brother and nephew will usually take a deer each, and a few friends might as well. My business parter and his family and guests hunt a LOT more than us. His north parcel is focused on ducks and geese that use the bottoms. And his crew will take a bunch of deer each year. The 1000 acre guy is even more of a duck hunter and has developed some terraces flats that he bird hunts every day he can. But his farm only has 2-3 serious deer hunters and sees very little pressure.
With that overview out of the way, back to my land. The 20 acre finger fields do get hammered by the deer, especially this year. Without knowing for sure, this years might have been because my farmer was planted weeks before the neighbors and I think all the deer in the area showed up to feast. There are plenty of larger parcels of tillable to my east and west, but if our is that early in the ground I guess it will get wiped out. I also seem to remember sone one saying the earlier soybeans are planted, the sweeter they are to the deer, but don’t know if that is really true.
I’ve tried a little food plotting over the years in the beginning with a disc and hand seed spreader, then with a 72” rotatiller and Van Brunt FB-A drill. No FarmerDan, and my poor results earned NotFarmerSteve. Usually caused by inadequate preparation or bad timing to get the seed in the ground. A couple years ago I got a Genesis 5 3PT and have seen better results, but have still had timing issues. My best starts were black oil sunflower plots, but the smallish plots were wiped out about the time heads started forming on top. I’m tempted to try a really big field of sunflowers to see if any can mature. I had some late soybeans and jap millet looking real good, but was so late, the frost knocked them out before they could do anything. I’ve told the wife I really want to focus on getting some good food plots in this year. Time will tell if that is really possible, but it’s just something I want to do, not something I need to do, so I’ll not lose any sleep over it.
I’ve asked the all three farmers about putting food plots in for me in the past, and non have wanted to mess with it. Could not even get them to spray a few plots while there spraying their crops. But honestly, I rather not spray at all if that is possible.
Boy it seems like I’ve said so much, maybe too much for some. Probably the biggest help I’m looking for at this point, is a suggestion on what to plant where and when. If I can get a plan on a calendar, hoping the weather cooperates with that plan, I might be able to plan enough trips to the farm for better success. I guess I already know I‘ll be trying to put some winter wheat or winter rye in the 20 acre fingers after the May cutting of Orchard Grass/clover. If flooding cooperates when is the best time to put jap millet in the bottom clearings? It could attract deer if dry or ducks if later flooded. We don’t really duck hunt, and if we did it would probably be on the business partners duck blind, but what the heck. When and what should I put in the other 7 small plots around the finger acres? I had a descent radish/turnip mix in some of them this year, but again too late to fully mature.
Thanks for any and all suggestions!!!
Last edited:
I'm just a little east of you, in Christian Co. , KY
Best time to be planting wheat/rye/ryegrass for foodplots will be around Sept 1. Planting those cool-season cereals in May - or June/July, if he cuts 'holiday hay', like so many folks around here - sounds like a recipe for wasted seed to me.
If he's only going to be making one hay cutting, you may be needing to either T&M or mow around the time you drill to knock back weeds... and the broomsedge that's likely gonna take over if you don't get your soil pH, P, and K right.
If you get a stand of wheat/rye drilled into that stand of Orchargrass/clover, and let him cut it for hay the next spring, it's done; the cereals won't re-grow for a second cutting, and the seeheads (if near maturity) will be leaving in the rolls of hay. If there's annual ryegrass in the mix, and he cuts early enough, it may have enough time to recover and go to seed, but the cereals won't.
Very little alfalfa is grown in this end of the state; there may be more grown as more folks get into doing haylage, but not for hay. A State Fair prize-winning hay producer here told me, years ago... "I can grow great alfalfa... I just can't get it cut and put up at optimal stage, or without it getting rained on." I doubt you'll get a typical W.KY farmer who does little fields of hay here and there like yours to fool with alfalfa - and if they did, they'd wanna do more than one cutting to make it worthwhile. Orchardgrass & clovers would be about as good as it's gonna get here, and a lot of those guys are just gonna 'mine' your soil unless you MAKE them fertilize appropriately... and when push comes to shove on that deal, a lot of them are just gonna walk away... 20 acres isn't going make them much hay or money. And, with current fertilizer prices as they are, it won't take much for a guy to say 'No, Thanks.' if you want him to invest in your soil fertility.
I'm thinking - like others earlier in the thread - that you need to be soil testing and addressing pH and any soil macro &/or micronutrient deficiencies...
Best time to be planting wheat/rye/ryegrass for foodplots will be around Sept 1. Planting those cool-season cereals in May - or June/July, if he cuts 'holiday hay', like so many folks around here - sounds like a recipe for wasted seed to me.
If he's only going to be making one hay cutting, you may be needing to either T&M or mow around the time you drill to knock back weeds... and the broomsedge that's likely gonna take over if you don't get your soil pH, P, and K right.
If you get a stand of wheat/rye drilled into that stand of Orchargrass/clover, and let him cut it for hay the next spring, it's done; the cereals won't re-grow for a second cutting, and the seeheads (if near maturity) will be leaving in the rolls of hay. If there's annual ryegrass in the mix, and he cuts early enough, it may have enough time to recover and go to seed, but the cereals won't.
Very little alfalfa is grown in this end of the state; there may be more grown as more folks get into doing haylage, but not for hay. A State Fair prize-winning hay producer here told me, years ago... "I can grow great alfalfa... I just can't get it cut and put up at optimal stage, or without it getting rained on." I doubt you'll get a typical W.KY farmer who does little fields of hay here and there like yours to fool with alfalfa - and if they did, they'd wanna do more than one cutting to make it worthwhile. Orchardgrass & clovers would be about as good as it's gonna get here, and a lot of those guys are just gonna 'mine' your soil unless you MAKE them fertilize appropriately... and when push comes to shove on that deal, a lot of them are just gonna walk away... 20 acres isn't going make them much hay or money. And, with current fertilizer prices as they are, it won't take much for a guy to say 'No, Thanks.' if you want him to invest in your soil fertility.
I'm thinking - like others earlier in the thread - that you need to be soil testing and addressing pH and any soil macro &/or micronutrient deficiencies...
Nightvision
5 year old buck +
Hers my .02
Get a soil test and send it to someone like FarmerDan. If all your farmers have done is take,take, take I bet your soil fertility and PH are sad.
I bet you have more deer than you think you do. 20 acres is a lot of food for deer to eat even if that food is growing slow.
Do a google search. There may be someone who owns a business that plants food plots.
If it were me, with your time limitations, I would plant that entire 20 acre field in a perennial clover. Go up there in September, mow it to clean it up, and use that drill to plant grains and some brassicas. This would give you a year round food source and there’s no way the deer can eat an entire 20 acres of clover.
Get a soil test and send it to someone like FarmerDan. If all your farmers have done is take,take, take I bet your soil fertility and PH are sad.
I bet you have more deer than you think you do. 20 acres is a lot of food for deer to eat even if that food is growing slow.
Do a google search. There may be someone who owns a business that plants food plots.
If it were me, with your time limitations, I would plant that entire 20 acre field in a perennial clover. Go up there in September, mow it to clean it up, and use that drill to plant grains and some brassicas. This would give you a year round food source and there’s no way the deer can eat an entire 20 acres of clover.
