Big change coming to parts of WI

[SD51555]

I'm not food plotting. I'm trying to build soil OM and retain carbon with cover crops. :D

 

[SD51555]

Remember, the politicians (including the ones that supported us), and outdoor writers all said we couldn't get an audit either.

 

[dipper]

Nobody can legally define a foodplot. Try it, its impossable.

Like I said, baiting is the easy thing to attack. It's easy to pick on the defenseless uncool kids in middle school.

I'm not food plotting. I'm trying to build soil OM and retain carbon with cover crops. :D

Also like I said, everyone has their own agenda.
Gotta be honest with yourself.

 

[Cuervo]

With all due respect, there is a big difference between 3 deer on a pile of corn and 30 deer on a 1.5 acre plot. The issue with baiting is high repetitive contact with saliva, feces, and urine. Even with 30 deer in a 1.5 acres, that's approx. 1 deer for every 435 square feet. A large bait pail of 9 square feet (3x3), with 3 deer on it is 1 deer for every 3 square feet. Feeding on a food plot isn't any different than the local doe herd eating acorns in a productive part of the forest....don't know how you outlaw that, although I'm sure some idiot Government official may try someday ( maybe outlaw Oak trees, eliminating acorns)

I know people have there own strong opinions, and the fact that the science still has many unknowns makes this subject even more argumentative. There is strong evidence howver that deer feeding on a common bait pile exponentially increases the probability of CWD transfer. Based on that, why would we continue to allow it? The same evidence is not there for "food plots" or farmers fields...and is obviously much harder to prove or quantify.

 

[wiscwhip]

^^^^Where is the multiple "like" button?

 

[wiscwhip]

FTR...I'm NOT pro-baiting..anything but...

However, to play Devil's advocate here...your numbers are based on an even distribution of deer throughout the entire 1.5 acre plot. That's not how deer feed generally. They feed in groups, in relative proximity to each other. Throw in the fact that a food plot is generally in the same place, year after year (decade after decade?) and the "square feet" argument diminishes in value.

If we're going to take the stance of doing everything in our power and within our control to slow the spread of disease, then there really is no reason to ignore foodplots and fruit tree plantings. Those of us who like planting plots and trees generally own our land, while those who are more prone to use bait...don't. That's the real argument/difference IMHO.

True, but with the fact that prions build up and stay in the soil in higher concentrations over a smaller area in a shorter period of time in a bait pile situation vs a food plot, sometimes you have to play the %'s. And given the "everything in our power" statement, it doesn't matter if the Martian Overlord owns the land, prions will be in the dirt regardless of ownership, so again the percentages come into play if the DNR's expect folks to keep hunting and helping control deer numbers. Take away plotting AND food plots and you would see many more guys sell their properties and leave the sport. Again, lesser of two evils. Baiting has to go to prevent rapid, widespread expansion of the disease, plots have to stay to retain hunters for herd control and outdoor revenue. Obviously that is just one man's opinion, but the logic is sound.

 

[wiscwhip]

What is really going to be funny is if they ever come up with a vaccine(which I personally feel is impossible given the fact that we are dealing with a protein strand and not a living organism like a virus, fungus, or bacteria) that can be administered orally, "baiting" will not only be encouraged, but quite possibly required to administer the vaccine. Think about that for a minute.

 

[SD51555]

How do you not feed a critter that eats everything? That's the funny part. Would a logging outfit be a baiting operation cause they're creating new browse?

 

[wiscwhip]

I'd agree that the logic is sound. However, I do think those of us who foodplot/plant orchards for deer need to take a good look in the mirror...at least when we accuse baiters of spreading disease. From a purely science based standpoint, if concentrating deer on small areas (all of my plots but one are less than an acre) leads to higher incidences of disease, then we too are "at fault". How many of us who plot/wildlife orchard (not a verb I guess) also place mineral/salt stations (I do)? Talk about concentrating deer.

Its easy for us to point fingers (believe me, I used to be a vehement anti-baiter) but not quite as easy to do some self-assessment. Just my $.02

I understand exactly where your coming from stu, but again, this is where the percentages come into play. Concentrating disease in a 5 sq ft mineral lick is far different than even an 1/8 acre plot. Sure, we would all like to be hero's and say that we did our very best to stop CWD in it's tracks by doing or not doing a certain thing. The reality is, that just like in SD's example with logging, certain everyday things that are out of anyone's control(whether for profit or recreation or act of God) will continue to promote the spread of disease and our best case reality is to play the lowest percentage hand we can, while still maintaining enough interest that we continue to hold stable hunter participation to control wildlife numbers. Densities play a huge roll in the ability to rapidly spread disease in not only deer but all other animals including humans as well.

 

[wiscwhip]

No, because logging is a normal forestry practice driven by a profit motive. Also, because the intent is to harvest logs/timber...not to feed deer. Any feeding is purely a secondary impact of logging.

Just like growing a little grain on your property to feed your chickens would be a normal ag practice, incidental feeding by deer in those areas could likely not be controlled by economically feasible methods in a small time operation.;)

 

[Cuervo]

Not to beat a dead horse, but it's a slow Friday at work. Comparing deer feeding in a food plot to a bait pile is like comparing Ronald Reagan and Obama. Deer feed in a food plot one day, and the next day when they return, they are not feeding in the same area, or same plants as the day before. When one group of deer leave a plot, and others come in after, they are not feeding on the same plants the deer that just left were (for the most part). The square footage and repetitive contact argument holds water. A bait pile has multiple deer slobbering, crapping, and pissing in the same 10 square foot area day after day, hour after hour, month after month. That does not happen in a food plot.

However, regardless of what we think the fact that our elected leaders are in charge of coming up with a viable solution leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[wiscwhip]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to any of this, and this is a great conversation. As I said, the smart man just plays the percentages until the percentages change enough to warrant a reevaluation of which hand to play. I this case, the science points out that banning baiting is the highest percentage, most bang for the buck method to prevent rapid spread of CWD. IF an oral vaccine ever was derived, I would spread vaccinated feed on every square foot of property I walked on if I could, public or private, the term "baiting" be d*mned, I would be inoculating at that point.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if food plots were made illegal in some states....That said, food plots are nothing compared to small water holes. Deer pee, crap and get saliva and snot in them constantly. When they are the size we generally make for deer and smaller, they're far worse than baiting, which is worse than food plots. For how much worse ponds are than food plots and baiting, even ponds don't seem to compare to the risk factor that scrapes offer. There, the deer actually chew on the same branch as the deer that chewed and often rubbed snot on the licking branch before them. of course, then we have multiple bucks breeding the same doe. What do bucks commonly lick before and after breeding?

My point is that if we ever want to get on top of this, we need to focus on finding realistic methods of curing/eradicating the disease. Unfortunately, the research depts of most states are being slashed and there are far more potentially lucrative areas for the private sector to be putting their R&D budgets towards.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

There is a simple way to "ban" food plots. Just make it illegal to hunt within X distance of any ag field or planting for deer. I'm NOT saying that is what they'll do, and there are loads of issues with that. I'm merely saying that a state could easily get rid of planting food plots if they wanted.

That said, all they have to do is what someone else wrote about about intent...so, those that bring them to court to fight it get out of the ticket. Every person that I know, including myself once, that fought a speeding ticket have had them reduced or tossed out, but that doesn't stop officers from issuing more.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

NoFo, as I said, "there are loads of issues with that." I was just showing that there are ways they could. Honestly, I think they'd go the intent route. Sure, those that fight it would likely get out of the ticket, but most wouldn't fight it.

 

[SD51555]

Just like when the supreme court was dealing with the 1st amendment issues around adult magazines. They tried their best to draw a line between what is art, and what is just indecent. The famous quote from some justice went something like, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

 

[shawnv]

Good thing my cover crop rotation on my farm includes what you would use in a food plot. :)

 

[gunther89]

If people are claiming that baiting is causing a higher risk of CWD, then why doesn't northern WI have tons of positive test? All I hear is tons of people bait in northern WI, yet the majority of positive test are coming from southern WI where ag land is around.

Just so people know I am against baiting as well but just curious as to why this is.

 

[shawnv]

It seems like this rapid increase in CWD % of the population in Southern WI is still happening without baiting so obviously transmission is more likely coming from the means by which Steve mentioned. The Northern deer might somehow be more resistant to it just like some Elk are less likely to get it in high concentration areas for deer out West.

 

[Steve Bartylla]

We can argue all day how CWD came to be/if it was always here. We can then pound our heads against the wall debating methods to slow its transmission, and I'm NOT saying we shouldn't do those things. If you understand where it came from and how to slow its spread, one can possibly "manage" the disease better/keep it out of areas for a longer period of time.

Still, in my mind it really comes down to this: It's here and it will NOT disappear or stop spreading unless/until we figure out a way to wipe out the disease or its impact. Everything else is a band aide. Band aides are very valuable and every household should have a box, but they are not a cure. They just deal with the complications of cutting yourself.