Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Telemark]

The question is what does QDM have to do with Hunter's safety? I'll answer absolutely nothing

I would disagree. Wildlife management and hunter safety should be taught in hunter education courses. Along with firearm safety, meat processing, and everything else a younger hunter should learn about.

 

[roymunson]

Discussion is warranted if they complain about the numbers or size of their deer.

This is a valid point.
We had 1 neighbor who was always hovering just under our standard for a "shooter." It was fine. He'd kill almost exclusively deer we passed. but that's his perogative.

Another neighbor with deeper pockets for feeding/baiting showed up on his other border (with slightly lower standards for bucks than he has) and now his small tract isn't holding the deer he once had. He calls us badmouthing the new guy for killing the bucks that are too young and with too much corn. I told him, somewhat diplomatically "Welcome to my world for the last 8 years. Most of the small bucks we let walk got killed on your side of the road".

He'd never thought of that. Zero self awareness.

And I get it. I've just had to come to grips with the fact that giant deer may not be on the agenda (although they could be). I have to get my jollies from age class deer and seeing deer utilize the land and habitat as I'd envisioned it. Inches can't be the measure, because we can't get the age required for the inches to follow.

 

[Brian662]

I will agree with the hunter restraint aspect of things though. I mean this in terms of the number of deer taken around here. It's like a badge of honor to take as many deer as possible. I posted on here last year about a guy that lives on the outskirts of town. Not far from me the last I heard this group of. I think 8 guys mostly family and friends had 26 to 30 deer hanging in their barn. Now I know that's legal and I'm not advocating for anything other than a little bit of restraint. When is enough enough? That would be my question.

If I was your neighbor, we could make a deal. I'll stop filling my freezer and other's freezers with all the tags I buy and you stop shooting young bucks. Would we both be happy with that arrangement?

 

[Telemark]

Sorry guys, but I blame ‘quality management’ and one organization for much of this.

I belonged for over 20 years and constantly struggle to change my attitude. Hunting is supposed to be enjoyable. Don’t ruin the enjoyable part for yourself or anyone else.

I would tend to agree that there is an unfortunate either/or fallacy within the world of QDM. People like Jeff Sturgis, with his smug attitude, push the idea that you can't have a "good" hunt without QDM. That's just bullshit in my opinion, and it's why I stopped watching his videos.

Habitat management has increased my enjoyment in hunting, not replaced it. It's the same with my increase in skill as a hunter. It all amplifies my enjoyment in hunting because it increases the quality of my hunt. Better skills, better habitat, more deer, better deer, etc. It all combines to make me appreciate and enjoy the hunt and my part in it.

The idea that I can't have a good hunt unless I have multiple 5+ year old bucks to chase every year is just nonsense the hucksters push in order to make money off people, and they should be ashamed of themselves for it.

At the same time, I do understand why people get frustrated when neighbors squander someone's hard work. But unfortunately that's just how life is. Try not to let it bother you.

 

[Brian662]

There are progressions to everything in life. When I was young, I was obsessed with bird hunting. Loved it. Wanted to kill as many birds as possible, everytime out. Eventually that subsided and I started to just shoot drakes to challenge myself, then I started to target banded birds, then shoot birds without all the gizmos available, etc. It kept evolving into new challenges, that's human nature, IMO.

Shooting the same basket buck every year because you can or to spite others who aspire for more is funny to me, especially when does are available, plentiful, and taste better. All that being said, it's a free country and people can do what they want to do. Me, personally, I like to challenge myself in all aspects of life to evolve and do different things, so that's what I'll keep doing.

 

[Bill Loser]

I'm speaking in generalities on the deer being shot. The first 40 hour paycheck you pulled, I bet you were pumped! You wanna keep making that same amount the rest of your life? No. You're trying to better yourself and be worth more. Same concept, IMO.

Good diversion of the topic tho taking it to hunter safety. Is Not Shooting Someone and Aging A Deer mutually exclusive in hunter ed? Your argument makes it sound like you can have one or the other, not both.

That's a logical fallacy. Education is purely to inform, so that hunters can make better decisions. Only a policy change would restrict what deer a hunter can shoot.

Since you admit that hunter education is effective at increasing hunter safety, why can't you admit that hunter education could be effective at improving wildlife quality management?

My desire to hunt safely does not decrease as my desire for hunt quality increases. I would presume that is true for the vast majority of hunters.

Hunter safety class is for... Wait for it...HUNTER SAFETY, not for telling everyone which buck they should shoot. If you want a class for everyone on habitat improvement and QDM then have at it, but it has no place whatsoever in a Hunter safety class.

 

[Bill Loser]

Since you admit that hunter education is effective at increasing hunter safety, why can't you admit that hunter education could be effective at improving wildlife quality management?

Where did I ever say it wouldn't? Just said it has no place in a Hunter safety class.

 

[roymunson]

There are progressions to everything in life. When I was young, I was obsessed with bird hunting. Loved it. Wanted to kill as many birds as possible, everytime out. Eventually that subsided and I started to just shoot drakes to challenge myself, then I started to target banded birds, then shoot birds without all the gizmos available, etc. It kept evolving into new challenges, that's human nature, IMO.

Shooting the same basket buck every year because you can or to spite others who aspire for more is funny to me, especially when does are available, plentiful, and taste better. All that being said, it's a free country and people can do what they want to do. Me, personally, I like to challenge myself in all aspects of life to evolve and do different things, so that's what I'll keep doing.

This is my sentiment.

Brian, I think you, I, and the majority of folks on this forum, fall into a minority. Most people want to kill a big buck. But they don't want to pass a decent buck without the guarantee of a big buck. So they'll kill the decent one. And if that's what floats your boat, that's your call.

Life is lived in the grind sometimes. I've ground thru a lot of stuff with my work, family, etc and come out the other side better. Hope I can pass that on to my kids.

 

[Bill Loser]

I would disagree. Wildlife management and hunter safety should be taught in hunter education courses. Along with firearm safety, meat processing, and everything else a younger hunter should learn about.

No that is 100% wrong. Hunter safety should be just that, Hunter safety. Not which buck to shoot or how to cut steaks after the shot.

 

[roymunson]

Hunter safety class is for... Wait for it...HUNTER SAFETY, not for telling everyone which buck they should shoot. If you want a class for everyone on habitat improvement and QDM then have at it, but it has no place whatsoever in a Hunter safety class.

It's called Hunter Education in Ohio.

https://ohiodnr.gov/buy-and-apply/hunting-fishing-boating/hunting-resources/huntered-courses

If you want to be petty and split hairs, I can do the same. Feel free to get caught up in the semantics for your argument's sake. Like the politician who once said "It depends what your definition of "is" is."

 

[Bill Loser]

This is my sentiment.

Brian, I think you, I, and the majority of folks on this forum, fall into a minority. Most people want to kill a big buck. But they don't want to pass a decent buck without the guarantee of a big buck. So they'll kill the decent one. And if that's what floats your boat, that's your call.

Life is lived in the grind sometimes. I've ground thru a lot of stuff with my work, family, etc and come out the other side better. Hope I can pass that on to my kids.

I agree with that 100%. to each their own.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Not being a smart azz or anything, but if you're a meat hunter primarily, whats wrong with shooting a doe or 7?

Our DNR gives us plenty of doe tags. If you wanna eat, kill all the does you want. Why shoot that buck that has something in 2 years that'd be a lot of fun to chase?

Check mate.

Whole bunch of "meat hunters" passing all the does to shoot a 1 or 2 YO buck. But at least they "got their buck" this year and threw the rack in the corner of the garage to be seen again in 8 years when they are re-arranging things. Truth for many is antlers feed their ego even if they were from an immature buck that didn't have a clue.
It's a heck of a challenge to want to improve age class and not be discouraged by what others kill but I sure try. We all have different goals and are made happy by different things and I try to keep that in perspective. To a degree, knowing more has made hunting less fun for me. I can't turn back the clock and be excited about shooting a little immature buck. If I still had the same goals/mindset I wouldnt have been invested enough to buy land in the first place I dont think.

 

[Bill Loser]

If I was your neighbor, we could make a deal. I'll stop filling my freezer and other's freezers with all the tags I buy and you stop shooting young bucks. Would we both be happy with that arrangement?

So in your world shooting a young buck is exactly the same as shooting every deer you see? If me deciding to shoot 1 young buck seriously affects your entire hunting experience you should maybe look into other hobbies? Way to much time spent worrying and hand wringing about what others are doing.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

So in your world shooting a young buck is exactly the same as shooting every deer you see? If me deciding to shoot 1 young buck seriously affects your entire hunting experience you should maybe look into other hobbies? Way to much time spent worrying and hand wringing about what others are doing.

1 immature buck per hunter on neighboring property every year will damn sure affect your quality. You can’t view everything in a vacuum of what you do individually. The neighborhood picture is sooo important.

 

[TenPoint]

The thing I never see in the crossbow distraction is a discussion about cold weather. It gets so damn cold in my area that you have to have 5” of layers on after November 15th to be able to sit outside. I got one because I can’t shoot a compound bow with that much clothing on.

Maybe I’m not trying hard enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heater body suit. ;)

 

[Bill Loser]

Check mate.

Whole bunch of "meat hunters" passing all the does to shoot a 1 or 2 YO buck. But at least they "got their buck" this year and threw the rack in the corner of the garage to be seen again in 8 years when they are re-arranging things. Truth for many is antlers feed their ego even if they were from an immature buck that didn't have a clue.
It's a heck of a challenge to want to improve age class and not be discouraged by what others kill but I sure try. We all have different goals and are made happy by different things and I try to keep that in perspective. To a degree, knowing more has made hunting less fun for me. I can't turn back the clock and be excited about shooting a little immature buck. If I still had the same goals/mindset I wouldnt have been invested enough to buy land in the first place I dont think.

I'm curious what world some of you live in? If a guy doesn't care about horn size and or age that instantly means he passes every doe in the county to only shoot the 1 buck you've been passing up on all season just to spite you? I just don't understand that way of thinking.
I think some spend way to much time working about "age class" and inches and not enough worrying about the experience and enjoying the time. You talk in broad generalities based on yourself. If you would just toss a small rack in the corner then everyone must. Myself every buck I've ever shot is on the wall in some fashion. I'm proud of all of them from the spikes to the 16 point I shot 10 years ago, they are all the same to me. You talk about the grip and grind that somehow mean less if it's not a buck you would kill and those guys must just need to prove they're men. That's the stuff that is detrimental to our sport and what.will kill it someday.

 

[Bill Loser]

1 immature buck per hunter on neighboring property every year will damn sure affect your quality. You can’t view everything in a vacuum of what you do individually. The neighborhood picture is sooo important.

I would argue no it won't. A new buck will just move in. Short term maybe but long term no.
Look all I'm saying is think about things outside your own world. Just because your goal is to kill the oldest deer doesn't mean that automatically means that has to be everyone's goal. Some only have a couple days or limited opportunities in some way. Some are happy just getting a deer, some any buck. So be it.

 

[Bill Loser]

I look at things like this,
I hate crossbows. I think it makes archery season to easy. But, I will not judge anyone for using one because it's legal. My view is not everyone else's.
That said, as I get older I think more and more about it as my eyesight gets worse, not sure I will ever be able to do it but I have thought about it

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm curious what world some of you live in? If a guy doesn't care about horn size and or age that instantly means he passes every doe in the county to only shoot the 1 buck you've been passing up on all season just to spite you? I just don't understand that way of thinking.

Perhaps you don't understand it because you're putting words into peoples mouths. I said "a whole bunch of" not every, all, or most even. Also never said anything about spiting someone else. To the contrary, I don't think many people who shoot young bucks every year think their one buck has any impact on someone else.

I think some spend way to much time working about "age class" and inches and not enough worrying about the experience and enjoying the time. You talk in broad generalities based on yourself. If you would just toss a small rack in the corner then everyone must. Myself every buck I've ever shot is on the wall in some fashion. I'm proud of all of them from the spikes to the 16 point I shot 10 years ago, they are all the same to me. You talk about the grip and grind that somehow mean less if it's not a buck you would kill and those guys must just need to prove they're men. That's the stuff that is detrimental to our sport and what.will kill it someday.

Be honest - do you believe that SOME hunters are motivated to kill a deer because it helps their ego to not eat a tag? Do you believe that SOME hunters feel better about themselves because they shot a 1 YO buck than a doe? You seem to take these comments personally, i'm not asking about you, i'm asking about hunters in general.

 

[Mortenson]

Heater body suit. ;)

Goose down vest and let the back hair grow out for late season.