Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

I read the whole thing.. This is akin to golf. The equipment keeps getting more advanced and expensive yet the average golf score has remained around 100. The whole premise of this thread is absurd - but it has generated a lot of interesting conversation! Some of you will be getting new keyboards for Christmas...or don't we use those any more!
Is it absurd? Seems pretty reasonable to hold some of these assumptions. Funny you mention golf…didn’t they just dial back the technology on the balls and possibly the drivers, yes they did. Helps my point.

 
I just had an hour drive and thought about this whole thread. Most won’t read this whole post….thats ok! It’s more for me.

This whole post is about corn.

There are two good thought experiments I’ve often heard and used dealing with these debates. First is the witch that comes and takes every single man made thing away from humans. She then tells every human if you as a people can make one iPhone I’ll give you everything back. Then she leaves.

Many have debated this question, but the consensus answer is it could never be done. Within a month 99.9% of humans would be dead (watch naked and afraid, and they are given fire starter, knife, and pot). The few left would spend generations just trying to survive, much like humans did for 100k years. People even a mile a way couldn’t communicate, no way to organize. iPhones take mines, factories, computers, electronics, mass communication. No one would be able to even write down what the witch wanted. Thousands of years later, if humans as a species survived, no one would even remember the witch or an iPhone and things would look totally different.

The second is if someone would pay ONE person 50 million dollars IF they could make one of the simplest things humans possess from start to finish….a pencil. The consensus is one person could not do it. You would have to cut a tree and process would down to a pencil. Drill a precise hole down the middle. That’s the easy part. Graphite has to be mined and processed, and takes machines and skill to make into a small tube. What about the tin cap that holds the eraser? Again mining, metallurgy, and forging to make a small precise cap. The rubber? Better be able to drill for oil and process it. And finally, yellow paint. Good luck making that.

I say all that to say that EVERYTHING we have and do was built on years and years and generations of other people and previous technological advancement. Even people that live “off the grid” use advanced tools, materials, and skills to live like they do. Hell homeless people have tents and clothing not available a generation ago.

Now to hunting. I was thinking of the things I use to hunt. My guess is everyone here has used some or all of these things, plus many more.

Clothing: the camo patterns are computer generated to fool a deers eyes. Goretex for water protection and breath ability. That goes for all synthetic fabrics. Insulation in our coveralls. Zippers. Buttons. Even our “traditional” wools are taken from sheep in Bangladesh, shipped to a factory, and machines weave them into tight patterns for our thermal underwear in a way not possible a generation ago.

Guns: modern rifling, machines with specs to make them shoot accurate and reliably. Same with bullet casings, primers, propellant. The bullets themselves are designed by engineers and tested in wind chambers and computers. The materials are created using AI and metallurgy techniques perfected by scientists. Crossbows, compound bows? Generations of tech infinitely better than what they used in midieval times. They can generate force no human could pull back and hold for a reliable shot with the mechanics of the pulleys. And hey, those were all made by machines and craftsmen that can almost guarantee the one you will buy shoots like the next one. Something like that impossible 1000 years ago. Only kings could have craftsmen make 500 years ago. Now I can buy one infinitely better than those used on the battlefields of England for 200 bucks at Cabellas.

Optics: the binos we use, designed over generations by master craftsmen. Took millennia to perfect. Now cut to fractions of a millimeter by machines. Same for rifle scopes. A 199 dollar bushnell would have been the most advanced optics on earth a hundred years back. Mounts on the rifles are reliable. Laser range finders? That is space age tech for 100 bucks. We use on the golf course or stand what was not invented in 1950, and was not available retail until 10-15 years ago.

Food plots: I could go on and on. Tractors, tillers, drills, bush hogs, pallet forks and front end loaders. Grain drills. Sprayers. Chemicals galore.

Seed: imagine if we had to only plant what we grew? No buying a strain scientists made to grow where it’s not supposed to, coated to defy weather patterns and droughts. Synthetic fertilizer? Back to being able to drill for oil and process it. Massive machines that dig rocks from the earth, process it, and let us buy it for 20 bucks at Walmart.

Cars: how do we get to our hunting spot two hours away? Men of Olden days would ride their horse fighting off natives for weeks to get to that honey hole. My wife is mad if I’m not home for dinner. What about the four wheeler we ride to the stand or use to spray?

Hunting stands: I think this might be the biggest tech we have created to help us fool prey. Nature doesn’t have death for large animals in trees. They don’t look up. So we all hunt from aluminum stands we build (ie put together) to outsmart evolution to get above deers nose and eyes. “Well I built my stand.” Where did the hammer and saw and nails come from? Hell even if you used a handsaw there are generations of tech to forge that metal into a cutting blade. Generations. And good luck making your own nails.

I’ve left out many many many things we use to help us kill deer that are way past cheating. But we take them for granted because we have alway had them, or don’t think about the advancements needed to obtain them. Just because grandpa used them doesn’t mean it’s any more fair or lack of technology that gives us an advantage over the deer.

Back to corn. So, no, I don’t think someone pouring corn on the ground to bring in deer is the THING that ruined hunting and made us harvesting a deer “not a fair chase.”
I agree - I think it all gets back to if it is not putting overt pressure on the resource - what does it matter what method. I have heard seasoned bow hunters who hunt with nothing else - I did that for 12 years - say - “Oh, you killed it with a gun”. Those people should be banned from hunting - they are hurting the sport. I had a bowhunter one time tell me - upon showing a pic of my 6 yr old grand daughter who killed a run of the mill 8 pt with a crossbow for her first deer - first words out of his mouth were not great deer, congrats - no, they were “oh, I just couldnt kill one with a crossbow” - and I knew he had killed his first ten or so deer with a modern gun. Had another guy tell me - also a died in the wool bowhunter - upon showing him a pic of an arkansas black bear I had baited up myself and killed - “I just couldnt kill one with his head in a barrel”. He showed his pure stupidity by not understanding the science behind bear baiting. Much easier to kill a 140” deer in the piney woods of south arkansas, without baiting - to kill a bear on bait in AR.

THe point should be - with no pure selfishness - is there somewhat of a component of 4 yr old deer in the herd - and is the herd not declining due to overharvest. If that is the case - and you are still whining - you need to work on your selfishness. If the deer herd is declining due to overhunting - or there are no mature deer in the herd - complain to your g&f.

A lot of folks, who love to hunt, have other interests than the biggest deer in the woods. I have a son who is on call two weekends a month and has three daughters at home who are into all kinds of activities - he used to be a big time bow hunter. As with all of his friends, time is of the essence. He has since really got into rifles. He has about four weekends a year to deer hunt - including with his daughters. Yes - they all want to kill a big deer - but unless you have thousands of acres of land and weeks to hunt - it would be difficult for a family of five hunters to kill a quality deer on 400 acres.

There is so much more to deer hunting than killing a big deer. I often see it taking many years of experience for someone to realize this - just like it did me.
 
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Is it absurd? Seems pretty reasonable to hold some of these assumptions. Funny you mention golf…didn’t they just dial back the technology on the balls and possibly the drivers, yes they did. Helps my point.

As is usually the case you totally miss the point. To the average golfer the maximum distance a ball travels is not a factor in the average game. To the average hunter, rack size, like golf ball distance is nice, but as many here have pointed out it's not a game changer. Glory days? Maybe yours are over but mine are in full swing!

There have been a lot of interesting and valid points made, many causing me deep thought. That I think the title of the thread (Glory days....) is irrelevant and misleading it has produced a lot of valuable opinion and insight. KUDOS for that!
 
As far as "Glory Days" .... we are living it here now.

When I was a kid in elementary school running a trapline it was amazing to even see a deer track...more less a live deer. We had to travel halfway across the state to deer hunt and it was buck only then.
I would never have dreamed it could be like it is now, or that I would own properties like we have today.
 
Wonder how that is used as a strategy there? I haven’t heard of it being used there but that doesn’t mean anything. I wonder if the juice isn’t worth the squeeze if the neighbors can’t legally hunt over it
In Iowa, it seems the people who do bait, do it to hold lots more deer closer to them and to combat drought.
 
As is usually the case you totally miss the point. To the average golfer the maximum distance a ball travels is not a factor in the average game. To the average hunter, rack size, like golf ball distance is nice, but as many here have pointed out it's not a game changer. Glory days? Maybe yours are over but mine are in full swing!

There have been a lot of interesting and valid points made, many causing me deep thought. That I think the title of the thread (Glory days....) is irrelevant and misleading it has produced a lot of valuable opinion and insight. KUDOS for that!
Usga is the governing body for a 30 handicap to the small percentage of pros yet they felt the need to reign in the technology. If I missed the point it’s only because your example didn’t hit the mark.

Glad you are living the best of times. Seriously. I truly enjoy every second I’m out there too. Just have some concerns for where we are headed. If that offends you my bad.
 
I agree - I think it all gets back to if it is not putting overt pressure on the resource - what does it matter what method. I have heard seasoned bow hunters who hunt with nothing else - I did that for 12 years - say - “Oh, you killed it with a gun”. Those people should be banned from hunting - they are hurting the sport. I had a bowhunter one time tell me - upon showing a pic of my 6 yr old grand daughter who killed a run of the mill 8 pt with a crossbow for her first deer - first words out of his mouth were not great deer, congrats - no, they were “oh, I just couldnt kill one with a crossbow” - and I knew he had killed his first ten or so deer with a modern gun. Had another guy tell me - also a died in the wool bowhunter - upon showing him a pic of an arkansas black bear I had baited up myself and killed - “I just couldnt kill one with his head in a barrel”. He showed his pure stupidity by not understanding the science behind bear baiting. Much easier to kill a 140” deer in the piney woods of south arkansas, without baiting - to kill a bear on bait in AR.

THe point should be - with no pure selfishness - is there somewhat of a component of 4 yr old deer in the herd - and is the herd not declining due to overharvest. If that is the case - and you are still whining - you need to work on your selfishness. If the deer herd is declining due to overhunting - or there are no mature deer in the herd - complain to your g&f.

A lot of folks, who love to hunt, have other interests than the biggest deer in the woods. I have a son who is on call two weekends a month and has three daughters at home who are into all kinds of activities - he used to be a big time bow hunter. As with all of his friends, time is of the essence. He has since really got into rifles. He has about four weekends a year to deer hunt - including with his daughters. Yes - they all want to kill a big deer - but unless you have thousands of acres of land and weeks to hunt - it would be difficult for a family of five hunters to kill a quality deer on 400 acres.

There is so much more to deer hunting than killing a big deer. I often see it taking many years of experience for someone to realize this - just like it did me.
Your last paragraph reflects my thoughts exactly. It took me decades to figure that out, after my wife straightened my out.

Guys, this intense focus on big bucks is not good for our sport.
 
Your last paragraph reflects my thoughts exactly. It took me decades to figure that out, after my wife straightened my out.

Guys, this intense focus on big bucks is not good for our sport.
I think some one can focus on big bucks……to the point they make themselves miserable.

But to start projecting that misery…….. so that all his/her neighbors or associates need to be like them …. may not be something to seek.
 
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Well. Prefer away!

If you think any studies will solve this debate my guess you haven’t taken a stats class or read or published many studies.

Again, this board is for sharing personal knowledge on subjects, not everyone posting what they read on Google. What would the purpose of that be?

Figures lie and liars figure. Period.


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I honestly think trail cams save far more deer than they cause to be killed. We might pass 20 different bucks in a season - waiting on those one or two target bucks - and never see them. Without the trailcams, we would probably kill several 2 and 3 yr olds.

Winner of most logical post I’ve read on this topic in quite sometime.

We study trailcam pictures for more hours than I’d like to admit. If I get a glance at a buck I want to know yes or no immediately!


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Usga is the governing body for a 30 handicap to the small percentage of pros yet they felt the need to reign in the technology. If I missed the point it’s only because your example didn’t hit the mark.
Glad you are living the best of times. Seriously. I truly enjoy every second I’m out there too. Just have some concerns for where we are headed. If that offends you my bad.
Fortunately, we don't have a national governing association intent on applying the same policy and rules on everyone. If we did, I would share your concerns as golf seems to be dying an accelerating death.
 
Your last paragraph reflects my thoughts exactly. It took me decades to figure that out, after my wife straightened my out.

Guys, this intense focus on big bucks is not good for our sport.
Art.. we’ve had this argument before on other sites . Nothing personal … we are just on opposite ends of the deer hunting perspective.

I’d be careful to criticize the pursuit of mature bucks. Just because your wife told you something, doesn’t mean it applies to everyone that hunts deer.

First off, the last person I’m listening to on deer hunting advice is my wife . Second, killing a young buck is fine on your land.. but if I want to pass young bucks on my farms and hope they actually lives a few years, absolutely nothing wrong with that . It’s better for the sport in my opinion.

More deer around, more balanced deer herd. Rut is more intense with more competition… Age structure is better! All positives!!
 
Usga is the governing body for a 30 handicap to the small percentage of pros yet they felt the need to reign in the technology. If I missed the point it’s only because your example didn’t hit the mark.

Fortunately, we don't have a national governing association intent on applying the same policy and rules on everyone. If we did, I would share your concerns as golf seems to be dying an accelerating death.
For the record I hate golf! I know when I suck too bad at a sport to keep throwing good time after bad. I just found it ironic that they are dealing with technology issues as well
 
For the record I hate golf! I know when I suck too bad at a sport to keep throwing good time after bad. I just found it ironic that they are dealing with technology issues as well
Save me from myself. In a sentence or two what are your biggest concerns?
 
Art.. we’ve had this argument before on other sites . Nothing personal … we are just on opposite ends of the deer hunting perspective.

I’d be careful to criticize the pursuit of mature bucks. Just because your wife told you something, doesn’t mean it applies to everyone that hunts deer.

First off, the last person I’m listening to on deer hunting advice is my wife . Second, killing a young buck is fine on your land.. but if I want to pass young bucks on my farms and hope they actually lives a few years, absolutely nothing wrong with that . It’s better for the sport in my opinion.

More deer around, more balanced deer herd. Rut is more intense with more competition… Age structure is better! All positives!!
Amen. Additionally the state has allowed little buck guys to do as they please. The people who decide that’s not for them have to fight an uphill battle generally on an island. We don’t get the states help. I imagine there would be plenty of “complaining” if the tables were turned in regards to regulations.
 
Save me from myself. In a sentence or two what are your biggest concerns?
Yeah good question. I fear we lose any semblance of a balanced herd. I am a huge proponent, in as much as we can achieve nowadays, in harmony and balance. We are the “rulers” of wildlife and the habitat. Because of our impacts nature cannot manage itself anymore. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that. Bucks are by and large not able to even sniff maturity in a free range setting. That is due to man’s inability to care OR show restraint. If we make taking the life of something that has been alive for less time than I own a pair of underwear even easier what is the future of the deer herd like and by default deer hunting.
I can also go into the sanctity of the pursuit and the merits of fair chase but I fear I’ve already run long on my 2 to 3 sentence answer!

Caveat- I’m painting with a broadbrush I know. There’s a lot of amazing managers and hunters and properties and will be forever god willing.
 
Art.. we’ve had this argument before on other sites . Nothing personal … we are just on opposite ends of the deer hunting perspective.

I’d be careful to criticize the pursuit of mature bucks. Just because your wife told you something, doesn’t mean it applies to everyone that hunts deer.

First off, the last person I’m listening to on deer hunting advice is my wife . Second, killing a young buck is fine on your land.. but if I want to pass young bucks on my farms and hope they actually lives a few years, absolutely nothing wrong with that . It’s better for the sport in my opinion.

More deer around, more balanced deer herd. Rut is more intense with more competition… Age structure is better! All positives!!
Chasing quality deer is a relentless pursuit. It's not for everyone and I'm personally happy that it isn't. No shade for guys who like to shoot the first buck that walks by or the guy who feels an accomplishment for filling his buck tag every year with a basket 8.

I'm fortunate to have some pretty good ground but I also eat my buck tag more often than not. I'm fine with that, my wife is *mostly* fine with that. As long as I get a few freezer queens for summer sausage, all is forgiven on the home front. My wife and kids were super jacked about the buck I tagged this year, which is just a bonus for me.
 
Your last paragraph reflects my thoughts exactly. It took me decades to figure that out, after my wife straightened my out.

Guys, this intense focus on big bucks is not good for our sport.

I’ve got a couple buddies that I can’t even be around during deer season anymore they have gotten so judgmental over people shooting any bucks under 150, they are obsessed with horns.
It gets so old hearing them complaining about how others hunt.
They used to be fun to hang out with during season.
 
I’ve got a couple buddies that I can’t even be around during deer season anymore they have gotten so judgmental over people shooting any bucks under 150, they are obsessed with horns.
It gets so old hearing them complaining about how others hunt.
They used to be fun to hang out with during season.
I try to be (and genuinely usually am) happy for anyone and their deer. The cases that perturb me a little are the guys who really want to step up a notch, say they intend to, and then settle early in the season or fail to exchange any info/advice on which ones may be good pass candidates. Maybe those type guys aren't common elsewhere, but I have quite a few neighbors who fit that bill, and they usually pop a solid 2.5 on the first day or the final day. Some of these guys don't even eat the venison because they're cattle farmers. At least if one is going to take a young buck, all I ask is be proud of it and don't make excuses. Maybe take a doe or two, enjoy the better meat, make a few farmers or yard and auto owners happy. Be proud of what you choose to kill. I see so many guys shoot the buck then throw the rack aside. In my book they're probably as bad as the judgmental 150 and up guys. Just my opinion. This thread took a turn for the crazy today. Hah!
 
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